Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

New 105 disc - is this correct?

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway
View Poll Results: Does my brake throw look right?
Yup, looks about right.
3
42.86%
Nope, that ain’t right.
4
57.14%
Voters: 7. You may not vote on this poll

New 105 disc - is this correct?

Old 10-06-20, 09:54 PM
  #1  
shaun3000
.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 10 Posts
New 105 disc - is this correct?

I have a new Defy. I asked my LBS if it was possible to adjust the brake lever reach. A manager and two mechanics all said no, not possible. Well, they were wrong. Long story short, insert a 2.5mm hex wrench into the black hole next to the silver bit you see in my pictures and you can adjust the reach to your hearts content.

During my Googling I came across
. In it he mentions the brake throw with properly-bled brakes. I have quite a bit of throw but I’m coming from a worn-out rim brake so I didn’t give it a second thought. Now I’m wondering if the shop bled my brakes properly when they put the bike together. Take a look at my two photos and, if you like,
.


Wheel just locked

Full open
shaun3000 is offline  
Likes For shaun3000:
Old 10-07-20, 04:04 AM
  #2  
znomit
Zoom zoom zoom zoom bonk
 
znomit's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Zealand
Posts: 4,623

Bikes: Giant Defy, Trek 1.7c, BMC GF02, Fuji Tahoe, Scott Sub 35, Kona Rove, Trek Verve+2

Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 549 Post(s)
Liked 721 Times in 365 Posts
You guys still hoarding loo paper?
znomit is offline  
Likes For znomit:
Old 10-07-20, 07:27 AM
  #3  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
They were probably confusing the Reach adjustment with the Free Stroke adjustment, which is only on Ultegra and above. LBS managers and wrenches aren't all perfect.

You could probably firm up the brakes a little more, but I wouldn't be terribly concerned unless the lever is closer to bottoming out/pinching fingers.

Also, the install/bleed job may not be at fault. Air can and does collect in the fluid reservoir in the levers. Inverting the bike in transport or during storage can jiggle some air from the reservoir in to the lines, resulting in some squish. If you want to try a quick "bleed,' tilt the bike/raise the front wheel so that the brake line is "uphill" from the caliper, and give the lever some vigorous flicks and pumps. If some sections of brake line are exposed, you can also tap on those sections while pumping/flicking the lever to encourage the bubbles to move upwards.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 10-07-20, 07:30 AM
  #4  
Mojo31
-------
 
Join Date: Jul 2020
Location: Tejas
Posts: 12,635
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9530 Post(s)
Liked 6,272 Times in 3,459 Posts
Originally Posted by znomit
You guys still hoarding loo paper?
You bet!
Mojo31 is offline  
Likes For Mojo31:
Old 10-07-20, 07:49 AM
  #5  
mstateglfr 
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,538

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10902 Post(s)
Liked 7,393 Times in 4,148 Posts
If the lever doesnt bottom out on the bar, then itll stop you and setup can be viewed as 'proper'.
But yeah, less lever pull is a nicer feel to me and I dont like it when the lever nearly bottoms out. Its a simple but time consuming adjustment.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 10:17 AM
  #6  
shaun3000
.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 10 Posts
Thanks for the replies.

No, not hoarding TP, that’s some cheap stuff I bought to use for a science project at my kids school. 😂
shaun3000 is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 10:44 AM
  #7  
jadocs
Senior Member
 
jadocs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: USA
Posts: 2,192

Bikes: Ti, Mn Cr Ni Mo Nb, Al, C

Mentioned: 22 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 942 Post(s)
Liked 526 Times in 349 Posts
You need to find a balance between braking from the hoods and braking from the drops. You set it up for drops only and you will find that it is way too stiff from the hoods.
jadocs is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 11:14 AM
  #8  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Shimano changes everything nearly in every iteration anymore. On just about everything I have to go look it up. Most shops aren't going to go look it up.

I have never been much of a fan of reach adjustment. I kind of understand it but have only really had to do it for tiny kids/juniors riding adult sized gear or people/riders with really tiny hands. Apart from that I have always felt it's just a matter of finding the correct hood position for the rider. Adjusting the reach always decreased the ability of the brake to perform ...until we got to hydraulics.

Keep in mind we (the industry) have only been messing with road hydraulics for a few years and that nearly every system and generation is different. If you figured out how to adjust your reach then good for you. If the brakes don't function correctly afterwards then....yeah. You can have a mechanic check the bleed but odds are the reach adjustment is affecting how functional those brakes are.

To me it's always been a bit like people saying they want the brake pedal in the car to be really close to the floor for comfort but then being surprised when they bottom the pedal out and can't stop.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 12:35 PM
  #9  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,613

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,526 Times in 997 Posts
I had a new rental with Shimano Ultegra that closed like the OP's video (ie. below snip).. found it quite annoying as it would pinch the 2 or 3 fingers I typically have wrapped under the hood. So I'd say, not being any kind of expert on Shimano, that I'd be surprised if that's operating as intended/designed. Then again, those hoods appear much longer than I'm used to on a rimbrake campy setup. Wouldn't mind seeing a photo as to what it looks like with the brake pulled but with hands in typical on-hoods riding setup.

Sy Reene is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 02:56 PM
  #10  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,662

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10247 Post(s)
Liked 11,600 Times in 5,946 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
Shimano changes everything nearly in every iteration anymore. On just about everything I have to go look it up. Most shops aren't going to go look it up.

I have never been much of a fan of reach adjustment. I kind of understand it but have only really had to do it for tiny kids/juniors riding adult sized gear or people/riders with really tiny hands. Apart from that I have always felt it's just a matter of finding the correct hood position for the rider. Adjusting the reach always decreased the ability of the brake to perform ...until we got to hydraulics.

Keep in mind we (the industry) have only been messing with road hydraulics for a few years and that nearly every system and generation is different. If you figured out how to adjust your reach then good for you. If the brakes don't function correctly afterwards then....yeah. You can have a mechanic check the bleed but odds are the reach adjustment is affecting how functional those brakes are.

To me it's always been a bit like people saying they want the brake pedal in the car to be really close to the floor for comfort but then being surprised when they bottom the pedal out and can't stop.
I dunno. My Canyon has 105, R7020 brakes, and the rear lever is like that. The reach adjustment made no difference - except when it was at the shortest reach the shifter blade was touching the tape. As it is, mine are at maximum reach and I ended up using two fingers on the lever from the hoods on a long descent so I wasn't pinching my middle finger.

I was hoping adjusting the reach would make a difference, but apparently what I really wanted was 'free stroke' adjustment, which 105 levers don't have.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 03:17 PM
  #11  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey
I dunno. My Canyon has 105, R7020 brakes, and the rear lever is like that.
Seems to be more problematic for the rear - I assume that it's because the front brake line is so up-and-down that there's not much opportunity for a bubble to get trapped in a, uh... trap. Rear lines are so much longer and often have a low point at the BB, so there's places for bubbles to hide.
WhyFi is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 03:54 PM
  #12  
shaun3000
.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
I had a new rental with Shimano Ultegra that closed like the OP's video (ie. below snip).. found it quite annoying as it would pinch the 2 or 3 fingers I typically have wrapped under the hood. So I'd say, not being any kind of expert on Shimano, that I'd be surprised if that's operating as intended/designed. Then again, those hoods appear much longer than I'm used to on a rimbrake campy setup. Wouldn't mind seeing a photo as to what it looks like with the brake pulled but with hands in typical on-hoods riding setup.
It doesn’t pinch my fingers in the hoods or drops. It seems to work just fine. I only asked because the video I found explaining the reach adjustment mentioned the lever throw. I would have been totally oblivious, otherwise! 😆
shaun3000 is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 03:55 PM
  #13  
genejockey 
Klaatu..Verata..Necktie?
 
genejockey's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 17,662

Bikes: Litespeed Ultimate, Ultegra; Canyon Endurace, 105; Battaglin MAX, Chorus; Bianchi 928 Veloce; Ritchey Road Logic, Dura Ace; Cannondale R500 RX100; Schwinn Circuit, Sante; Lotus Supreme, Dura Ace

Mentioned: 41 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10247 Post(s)
Liked 11,600 Times in 5,946 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Seems to be more problematic for the rear - I assume that it's because the front brake line is so up-and-down that there's not much opportunity for a bubble to get trapped in a, uh... trap. Rear lines are so much longer and often have a low point at the BB, so there's places for bubbles to hide.
Quite possible. I'm taking it to my LBS to cut the steerer soon, and I was going to have him check/bleed them.
__________________
"Don't take life so serious-it ain't nohow permanent."

"Everybody's gotta be somewhere." - Eccles
genejockey is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 04:01 PM
  #14  
Kimmo 
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,533

Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1520 Post(s)
Liked 716 Times in 508 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
Also, the install/bleed job may not be at fault. Air can and does collect in the fluid reservoir in the levers. Inverting the bike in transport or during storage can jiggle some air from the reservoir in to the lines, resulting in some squish. If you want to try a quick "bleed,' tilt the bike/raise the front wheel so that the brake line is "uphill" from the caliper, and give the lever some vigorous flicks and pumps. If some sections of brake line are exposed, you can also tap on those sections while pumping/flicking the lever to encourage the bubbles to move upwards.
Ah, the joys. Can't say I miss that aspect of being a mechanic... Ironically enough though, these days, dealing with the shortcomings of hydraulics is all i do.

If there was a worthwhile alternative to pneumatic tyres, we'd be all over it, since relying on a contained fluid is inherently problematic... I have a feeling that if somehow, hydraulic brakes came first, there'd be a lot more people singing praises of the humble Bowden cable.
Kimmo is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 04:12 PM
  #15  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by Kimmo
Ah, the joys. Can't say I miss that aspect of being a mechanic... Ironically enough though, these days, dealing with the shortcomings of hydraulics is all i do.
And many, myself included, find them to be quite hands-off. *shrug*
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 10-07-20, 04:39 PM
  #16  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
And many, myself included, find them to be quite hands-off. *shrug*
I'm in the middle on this one. Usually hands off and maintenance free if done well but I really have to deal with a lot of issues that other shops or owners seem to create. Outside of that - bikes that seem to be used hard always end up with some sort of issue in the long term.

Bikes that seem to sit a lot seem to have issues as well (SRAM).
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 04:42 PM
  #17  
Psimet2001 
I eat carbide.
 
Psimet2001's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Elgin, IL
Posts: 21,627

Bikes: Lots. Van Dessel and Squid Dealer

Mentioned: 25 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1325 Post(s)
Liked 1,306 Times in 560 Posts
Originally Posted by genejockey
I dunno. My Canyon has 105, R7020 brakes, and the rear lever is like that. The reach adjustment made no difference - except when it was at the shortest reach the shifter blade was touching the tape. As it is, mine are at maximum reach and I ended up using two fingers on the lever from the hoods on a long descent so I wasn't pinching my middle finger.

I was hoping adjusting the reach would make a difference, but apparently what I really wanted was 'free stroke' adjustment, which 105 levers don't have.
Reach will be lever distance from the bar when unloaded/sitting. Free-stroke is how far you can pull it back without engaging/pressurizing the hydraulics/master cylinder. I have no idea which one has which option until I look it up to confirm before set up and before bleeding (with free stroke adjustment capability sometimes with Shimano levers you have to run that adjustment all the way in or out before you bleed it or it won't bleed correctly.). I don't even remotely try and memorize it anymore.
__________________
PSIMET Wheels, PSIMET Racing, PSIMET Neutral Race Support, and 11 Jackson Coffee
Podcast - YouTube Channel
Video about PSIMET Wheels

Psimet2001 is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 04:56 PM
  #18  
Sy Reene
Advocatus Diaboli
 
Sy Reene's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: Wherever I am
Posts: 8,613

Bikes: Merlin Cyrene, Nashbar steel CX

Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,526 Times in 997 Posts
Originally Posted by shaun3000
It doesn’t pinch my fingers in the hoods or drops. It seems to work just fine. I only asked because the video I found explaining the reach adjustment mentioned the lever throw. I would have been totally oblivious, otherwise! 😆
That's good. Though I look at the picture from your video and can't tell how it would not be hitting either your fingers or the bar itself?
Sy Reene is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 05:30 PM
  #19  
shaun3000
.
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 109
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 24 Post(s)
Liked 26 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Sy Reene
That's good. Though I look at the picture from your video and can't tell how it would not be hitting either your fingers or the bar itself?
The small shift lever overlaps the bar, doesn’t touch. There’s not much movement once the brake engages so the lever doesn’t pull back much further than in the picture/video.

This is with the reach adjusted to the lowest setting. (Small hands)
shaun3000 is offline  
Old 10-07-20, 06:40 PM
  #20  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 39,505

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 353 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 20791 Post(s)
Liked 9,436 Times in 4,663 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
I'm in the middle on this one. Usually hands off and maintenance free if done well but I really have to deal with a lot of issues that other shops or owners seem to create.
Yup. I was going to go there, but decided to skip it. Lots seem to suffer from self-inflicted troubles.
WhyFi is offline  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 10-07-20, 07:31 PM
  #21  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,922
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4717 Post(s)
Liked 1,882 Times in 998 Posts
Originally Posted by Psimet2001
I'm in the middle on this one. Usually hands off and maintenance free if done well but I really have to deal with a lot of issues that other shops or owners seem to create. .
I rarely see issues with hydraulic brakes, that weren't created by the owner/user. SRAM brakes still suck in the heat, but I know how to fix that. It's a shame that SRAM can't figure it out.
noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 10-08-20, 07:32 PM
  #22  
Kimmo 
bike whisperer
 
Kimmo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Melbourne, Oz
Posts: 9,533

Bikes: https://weightweenies.starbike.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=152015&p=1404231

Mentioned: 15 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1520 Post(s)
Liked 716 Times in 508 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi
And many, myself included, find them to be quite hands-off. *shrug*
Yeah sure, mostly. But that one bike in fifty or a hundred is an utter bastard. You can't get eyes on the problem. Way more hassle than the fiddliest of cable brakes like old school cantis, nasty BMX gyros or even a rear brake on a Peugeot folder.
Kimmo is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.