uselesskamel

Hello,

I currently have a 2003 Look KG386 Carbon bike with Record 10s groupset (updated Ultra Torque Crank). I have been debating on whether or not to upgrade the groupset or just buy a new bike. Not sure which is a better move. The bike is really light, more so than the about 2kg lighter than the new one I am looking at. Based on my current research it seems like I can upgrade to a Record 12s for about $2K. On the other hand, I have been looking at the Trek Domane SL5 with Shimano 105 for about $2,800. Not sure how the 03' Record compares to the current year 105 groupset, but like the look and features of the new bike. Essentially, I bought the Look second hand and can spend money ensuring proper fit, or start with a bike that fits me from the get go. Any thoughts?

Mulberry20

I don’t think you can compare 105 to even old Campy components. I have 2008 Chorus components and can’t get myself to buy Shimano for a second bike. I would keep your components but have the shifters rebuilt and get a new frame. A Campy pro shop will completely refresh your group set for $100. There are lots of great frames.

I looked at the Domane with 105 and its obvious why the entire group-set is less than $500.

Once you have Campy there is no looking back. When shifters go on Shimano its 200 bucks and up. When Campy shifters need attention its $12 for springs and $10 for the spring carrier and its brand new.

You won’t be happy with 105.

uselesskamel

I have read a lot of post that have similar thoughts on Campy groupsets. Just haven't seen anything that addresses modern low/mid tear shimano to 20 year old Campy. This is the first and only road bike I have ridden, so dont have experience. Have been considering the aspect of just building, but seems intimidating.

genejockey 

Counterpoint - I've got one bike with Veloce, one bike with Chorus, one bike with Dura Ace (all pre 2010) and one bike with R7020 105. I love the Shimano for the nearly silent, instantaneous gear changes. I find the 2nd generation Ergo levers on the two Campy bikes to be pretty comfy, but they don't work as well for getting your hands on the top of the hoods to get low without going to the drops. I find the Shimano more convenient to shift from the hoods, because the thumb button on the Ergos is just a bit too far back to hit without twisting my hand. I like being able to shift up a lot of cogs at a time on the Ergos when I reach the top of a hill, versus multiple individual lever throws with the Shimano. The brakes, to me, feel pretty much equivalent, except the 105 is discs which are better than the other 3, but it's the type, not the maker.

So, you might like the 105. Probably easier to get a wide range of gears with that than with 17 year old Campy. Not sure about new 12 speed Record, of course.

tomato coupe

New bike.
Many, many, many people are happy with 105.

genejockey 

It depends on how mechanically inclined you are, but my suggestion would be to ride a lot first, and get a feeling for what you do and don't like about the bike you have. There's nothing wrong with 10 speeds. 3/4 of my biked have 10 speeds, and rim brakes, and they're each a blast to ride.

HTupolev

A 105 brifter tends to be around $100 new. Ultegra-series are around $140, it's really only with Dura-Ace that you start to crack $200. Furthermore, it's not really that common for Shimano brifters to irreparably go out. Campy does have the edge on shifter serviceability, but you're massively exaggerating the issue.

Shimano vs Campy is mostly a matter of preferred ergonomics. Both work very, very well.

Koyote

My oldest Shimano STI levers easily have 30k miles, and another set has 20K miles - all still work fine.

(Oh, shoot, now I jinxed myself. A shifter will fail tomorrow, for sure.)

Litespud

can you give me the name of the Campy pro shop that’ll completely refresh my groupset for $100? Last time I had my 10sp shifters rebuilt by a good Campy shop it cost ~$300

Erzulis Boat 

I have always run the top shelf Campagnolo on my bikes, but decided to build a "beater" with an Ultegra groupset a few years back. Wow! It's absolutely fantastic!

If 105 is anything close, it should work great.

Danhedonia

105s got much better in recent years. I have them on a Roubaix and it is surprisingly good.

I am also wondering about 'cheap Campy gruppo refreshes.' I live in Albuquerque. These days, any wrench capable of doing such work will avoid it (bcos pandemic bike rush = other, less problematic work backed up out the door), and there aren't that many here.

To OP: Updating an old bike expensively could be the way to go; but if you're willing to drop a couple thousand, what about looking at a used upper-echelon bike that could share the same platform? I'm bringing a small herd of road bikes around (slowly) to Ultegra 2x11's, and it's nowhere near as pricey as my going out and getting a single new bike. I've spent a total of $3,900 and now have a late 00's Giant TCR-1 Comp, 2013 Roubaix Elite, and 2018 Emonda SL6 Pro with multiple upgrades across all three bikes for that money. Prior to that I was riding 2-4k miles / year on a Novara Trionfo (6-series aluminum, lovely bike but too small for me).

Counterpoint is that if you're in love with the new bike and can afford it, buy it for crying out loud. If you're filled with regret you can sell it easily these days.

RiceAWay

Actually as a person that has switched over to Di2 on a 2018 Trek let me advise you that you already have the best available. While it is harder than hell to get the Campy properly aligned and operating smoothly one it is it is every bit at good as the Di2. As for the Look. They haven't made any improvements since the 295 other than slight weight reductions which don't matter in the least. As far as it goes, my 2012 Trek Madone or my 2005 Lemond Zurich odder so little improvements that you can gain more with a good set of wheels. The ONLY reason I could see "upgrading" is to get disk brakes. These are not any better than top notch rim brakes except in the rain, but if you have expensive carbon wheels you don't wear them out with rim brakes.

Right now I'm putting together a Look 595 and putting the Record 10 spd back on it. Oddly enough I'm installing a Campy Centaur square taper ISO crank on it. The difference in weight over a Record Ultradrive iis only 4 ounces and it is a quarter of the price. And it never wears out. I'm even back to 52-39. So it makes me a little slower on the climbs. You need an hourglass now to time me climbing. Also, unless the frame is perfectly aligned one side to the other, the bearings wear out rapidly and you have added friction. With the spindle drive, it works absolutely perfect. It's like watching a Hambini video where the only friction on the cranks is the water seals. You give them a spin and it rolls around 5 times before coming to a halt. Sometimes the old ways are the better ways.

The BB just got here so back to work.

OK, 20 minutes later and the BB is installed and the cranks are on. I can't find the long countersunk connector for the brake so I can't finish installing them. One of the wire guides is damaged so I will have to contact Look for a new one. I have also ordered a dog fang which I use on all of my bikes now so that if the bike derails to the inside that I don't screw up the carbon frame. Also new Campy cable kit should be here shortly. I have sworn off tubeless tires for life. If you have to put a tube in them out on the road you might as well start walking now. It is IMPOSSIBLE to put a tubeless tire back on without flatting a tube. And believe me, you WILL get a flat on tubeless. I went that way for three years and if I even think about tubeless again please someone shoot me.

If you think that the there could be ANY improvement with a Domaine or 105 you're wrong. I suppose you could get better braking with disks if you ride in the rain. But if you don't I wouldn't worry. The Cheap Chinese carbon aero wheels are now as good as anything you can get for a quarter of the price. I just got a new one yesterday and I was EXTREMELY impressed.

If the American carbon aero manufacturers think that charging $2000 for a set of wheels vs. the $400 of the Chinese is going to be offset by "Buy American" they are wrong. The Chinese have fully automated the wheel building now so after the rim is made it takes less than 3 minutes to build a wheel. This wheel I just got looks to me like they have now automated the rim building process. There is definitely something wrong with the claim that they use balloon molds. This wheels is simply too good for that. They have some way of making rims that I haven't seen before. So I guess I'll have to look at Enve and Zipp. Hambini said that his Chinese wheels were as good as his American wheels. I can believe that judging from my latest wheel. It is so good that I will buy its mate (I really should have bought a set in the first place. But I still have a good rear wheel and just needed a front since I have over-inflated the old front which causes the rims to delaminate.

I have a 60 cm Trek Madone 2012 6.9 - like the one that Lance used in his last victory. It has a manual Dura Ace group. It shifts better than the Campy. So what? The difference is nearly undetectable when you have the Campy perfectly adjusted.

So after I've run on and on - the ONLY thing you would gain by getting another bike is bike envy from your riding group. And then they'll go out and get something better than that and then where are you?

RiceAWay

I use 105 on Cyclocross bikes. Damned if I can tell the difference between 105 and Ultegra except the finish; and not much of that.

RiceAWay

If I were building a beater now, I would use 105 and BST bottom bracket. I HATE Italian threads. Even my Colnago is Taiwanese, I think, because it has BST bottom bracket The construction of my CLX 3.0 is better than a C64 in my book.

bblair

Easy: New bike. You never know when your bike might be out of commission for something like a flat tire or scuffed bar tape. Answer: more than one bike.

shelbyfv

The fit is key. If the Look doesn't fit, move on. If it does fit and you feel the need to change the entire group, you don't need to pay $2000 for 12 speed Record. You can get either a Chorus or an Ultegra group for $800+/-. Either would be an improvement over your 17 year old stuff, plus give you wider gearing which most new riders appreciate.

topflightpro

I say new bike, but I am basing that decision on the fact that your Look KG386 frame is going to be like riding a wet noodle compared to modern carbon frames. It's not really a "classic" bike. It's just old, and carbon bike frame building has advanced a ton since that KG was made.

Regarding your components, yes, 10S record was nice, but pretty much any current groupset from 105/ Rival / Chorus up is going to perform as well or better. And while I agree that having the Record set refreshed and overhauled is a great idea, I think you are going to be very hard pressed to find a shop with mechanics competent enough to do that.

Koyote

A side note: While there are plenty of "classic" steel bike frames, old cf frames are just old.

pdlamb

Only if you can (a) find the parts (they're not making them any more) and (b) you do the work yourself. I think I paid $40 for a new spring carrier last spring, and the one time I had a shop do it, the labor was $75, IIRC. For a single brifter.

shelbyfv

^^Yep. Also if the Campy is from the past decade springs won't do it, have to replace the entire shifter innards. This is an old saw that won't die.

jadocs

Interested in this as well. What does a complete "refresh" for $100 mean? The cost of parts and labor makes me think this is refresh is mostly an inspection.

vespasianus

As a guy who runs Campag on both his bikes, I would not agree with this. Shimano 105 is excellent and honestly shifts very similar to a chorus level campag system and is miles ahead of something like Centaur.

mstateglfr 

105 is $625 here, is it cheaper elsewhere? Merlin usually has strong pricing on Shimano. https://www.merlincycles.com/en-us/s...et-118524.html

I dont plan my builds based on the small chance a shifter will break. But if I did, I dont think I would be willing to pay over 2x the cost up front(Chorus vs 105) just for the small chance that a 105 STI breaks years from now.

Its cool that you like Campy. Your reasoning is just funny to me as it isnt applicable to my(or others) situation or experience.

gairman

I had Campy Chorus on a Pinarello F 4:13 around 2012 and it was truly exceptional. I would not hesitate to keep that. But I am now enjoying an Ultegra Di2 group and it is sooo incredibly sweet!