Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Road Cycling
Reload this Page >

Disks not ready

Notices
Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Disks not ready

Old 02-13-21, 04:28 PM
  #151  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,334

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 553 Post(s)
Liked 376 Times in 212 Posts
Forcing the bike industry and cyclists in general to get over their obsession with weight over every other characteristic is actually an intentional and positive outcome of the UCI weight limit. At yet people still think that lighter is automatically better.

GCN interviewed someone involved in the regulations, Dimitris Katsanis, who discusses the minimum weight rule at 5:40 and again at 13:38:
surak is offline  
Likes For surak:
Old 02-14-21, 09:16 AM
  #152  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,857
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4653 Post(s)
Liked 1,771 Times in 958 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
You're suggesting TREK increased the weight of the Emonda rim brake frame by 70% so that the disc brake version doesn't look so bad? That's inane.
Yet you'll find many here that believe it's a fact.
noodle soup is offline  
Old 02-14-21, 09:19 AM
  #153  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,790

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 343 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16064 Post(s)
Liked 4,809 Times in 2,539 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Yet you'll find many here that believe it's a fact.
Big Bike is an unscrupulous organization - who knows what atrocities they commit in the shadows?
WhyFi is online now  
Old 02-14-21, 09:25 AM
  #154  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,857
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4653 Post(s)
Liked 1,771 Times in 958 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
Big Bike is an unscrupulous organization - who knows what atrocities they commit in the shadows?
Is Big Bike = QAnon?
noodle soup is offline  
Old 02-14-21, 09:27 AM
  #155  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,790

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 343 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16064 Post(s)
Liked 4,809 Times in 2,539 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Is Big Bike = QAnon?
No, Big Bike is worse - they're pushing their Disc Agenda upon us.
WhyFi is online now  
Old 02-14-21, 09:50 AM
  #156  
noodle soup
Senior Member
 
noodle soup's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Posts: 8,857
Mentioned: 20 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4653 Post(s)
Liked 1,771 Times in 958 Posts
Originally Posted by WhyFi View Post
No, Big Bike is worse - they're pushing their Disc Agenda upon us.
You mean to tell me that no one wants disc brakes, gut they come in asking for bikes with discs because they been brainwashed by BB?
noodle soup is offline  
Likes For noodle soup:
Old 02-14-21, 09:58 AM
  #157  
big john
Senior Member
 
big john's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: In the foothills of Los Angeles County
Posts: 15,961
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2464 Post(s)
Liked 1,838 Times in 1,028 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
You mean to tell me that no one wants disc brakes, gut they come in asking for bikes with discs because they been brainwashed by BB?
Obviously.
big john is offline  
Likes For big john:
Old 02-14-21, 10:03 AM
  #158  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,790

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 343 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16064 Post(s)
Liked 4,809 Times in 2,539 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
You mean to tell me that no one wants disc brakes, gut they come in asking for bikes with discs because they been brainwashed by BB?
That's the way it works. Unfortunately, they got me before I lined the inside of my helmet with aluminum f- uh... with a Faraday cage... but now that I'm all set up, it's back to "good enough" on future purchases.
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 02-14-21, 11:09 AM
  #159  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,334

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 553 Post(s)
Liked 376 Times in 212 Posts
Originally Posted by noodle soup View Post
Is Big Bike = QAnon?
You wouldn't be the first to realize this.
surak is offline  
Old 02-14-21, 12:12 PM
  #160  
Racing Dan
Senior Member
 
Racing Dan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,732
Mentioned: 9 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1005 Post(s)
Liked 123 Times in 91 Posts
Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Says Chris Froome. Who am I to argue with Chris Froome.
"I don't think the technology is quite where it needs to be' says four-time Tour de France winner"
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chri...n-disc-brakes/
Its just clever marketing to make you look at his Factor bike. Fooled all of you! ;-)
Racing Dan is offline  
Likes For Racing Dan:
Old 02-15-21, 12:12 PM
  #161  
TricycleTom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Spiritwood, Saskatchewan
Posts: 126

Bikes: Jeunet 12, Car-Cycle X-4, Aerovironment Charger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts
I'd use disks if I was doing a lot of riding in mud, but otherwise, I think it is a waste to use a disk when the rim can do the same job for no extra weight.
TricycleTom is offline  
Old 02-15-21, 12:16 PM
  #162  
fitcat
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2016
Posts: 8
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Says Chris Froome. Who am I to argue with Chris Froome.
"I don't think the technology is quite where it needs to be' says four-time Tour de France winner"
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chri...n-disc-brakes/
Hmm, why so much fuss about brakes.
When runway models win races, the real rub is what 'supplements' provide a technological advantage to the biology.
fitcat is offline  
Old 02-15-21, 02:43 PM
  #163  
Andy Somnifac 
Annoyed.
 
Andy Somnifac's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,158

Bikes: Siegler CCR, Lynskey R210 Custom, Felt S22 TT, Raleigh RX 2.0 CX, GT Helion Elite

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 42 Post(s)
Liked 65 Times in 34 Posts
Originally Posted by TricycleTom View Post
I'd use disks if I was doing a lot of riding in mud, but otherwise, I think it is a waste to use a disk when the rim can do the same job for no extra weight.
Sure, rim brakes are definitely as good for the standard schmoe like us. Except for in the wet. And mud. Oh, and descents.

If someone is concerned about the weight difference between disc and rim brakes, and their BMI (yes, I know BMI isn't perfect, but I need something for a comparison) isn't under, let's say a BMI under 20, I'd just suggest cutting off the extra slice of pizza.
__________________
Back on the bike since June 2020...
Andy Somnifac is offline  
Likes For Andy Somnifac:
Old 02-15-21, 03:12 PM
  #164  
TricycleTom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Spiritwood, Saskatchewan
Posts: 126

Bikes: Jeunet 12, Car-Cycle X-4, Aerovironment Charger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by Andy Somnifac View Post
Sure, rim brakes are definitely as good for the standard schmoe like us. Except for in the wet. And mud. Oh, and descents.

If someone is concerned about the weight difference between disc and rim brakes, and their BMI (yes, I know BMI isn't perfect, but I need something for a comparison) isn't under, let's say a BMI under 20, I'd just suggest cutting off the extra slice of pizza.
It isn't just the weight - an elegant design gets at least two functions from as many parts as possible. As for the wet, aluminum rims and Mathauser shoes have always been fine for me, including descending the Sierras with 45 lbs of touring gear. For extreme slopes, either system needs extra mass. BTW, the highest generation of heat occurs when the speed of a free descent is halved by the brakes. Faster, and the air is helping, slower and the rate is lower.
TricycleTom is offline  
Likes For TricycleTom:
Old 02-15-21, 03:18 PM
  #165  
Toespeas
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2020
Posts: 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 162 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 42 Times in 39 Posts
the real issue will always be discs are just bad on road bikes , its a fact , road bikes operate at more specific points than other bikes , discs on off road bikes usually work because you want more locking power and rims just get weakened by dirt and sand , road bikes have higher frequency and when riding at higher speeds need an equal and even braking pressure discs can cause deflections in the wheel and throw a rider off, which is why we see so many more crashes in the TDF and world tour on descents , normal turns go from stable to wobbly nightmares because discs without abs are dangerous , you wouldn't want them on a motorbike or car , but people think a locking brake is somehow safe , NOPE , you will end up like Rem turd co flying over a stone wall to your doom , rims are also cheaper and allow a lower entry cost , so more people can ride , and as the industry trends towards discs we will see it hard for the poorer people ro afford the bikes , discs are harder to work on and require way too much effort for the average person whoo just isnt interested in tweaking their breaks all day long , it will be sad in 5 years when a rim brake wheel set no longer exists because everyone wants to buy the new shiney turd , so now we are all forced to ride these crappy components that cost twice as much , and present an even bigger problem , because a bunch of dentists wants to show off on the group ride
Toespeas is offline  
Old 02-15-21, 03:32 PM
  #166  
tomato coupe
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 1,899

Bikes: Colnago, Van Dessel, Factor, Cervelo, Ritchey

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1148 Post(s)
Liked 1,594 Times in 649 Posts
Originally Posted by Toespeas View Post
the real issue will always be discs are just bad on road bikes , its a fact , road bikes operate at more specific points than other bikes , discs on off road bikes usually work because you want more locking power and rims just get weakened by dirt and sand , road bikes have higher frequency and when riding at higher speeds need an equal and even braking pressure discs can cause deflections in the wheel and throw a rider off, which is why we see so many more crashes in the TDF and world tour on descents , normal turns go from stable to wobbly nightmares because discs without abs are dangerous , you wouldn't want them on a motorbike or car , but people think a locking brake is somehow safe , NOPE , you will end up like Rem turd co flying over a stone wall to your doom , rims are also cheaper and allow a lower entry cost , so more people can ride , and as the industry trends towards discs we will see it hard for the poorer people ro afford the bikes , discs are harder to work on and require way too much effort for the average person whoo just isnt interested in tweaking their breaks all day long , it will be sad in 5 years when a rim brake wheel set no longer exists because everyone wants to buy the new shiney turd , so now we are all forced to ride these crappy components that cost twice as much , and present an even bigger problem , because a bunch of dentists wants to show off on the group ride
I think the above may have set a forum record for the longest run-on sentence.

How's that old saying go? Twenty six wrongs don't make a right?

Last edited by tomato coupe; 02-15-21 at 09:57 PM.
tomato coupe is offline  
Likes For tomato coupe:
Old 02-15-21, 03:38 PM
  #167  
WhyFi
Senior Member
 
WhyFi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: TC, MN
Posts: 33,790

Bikes: R3 Disc, Haanjo

Mentioned: 343 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 16064 Post(s)
Liked 4,809 Times in 2,539 Posts
Originally Posted by tomato coupe View Post
I think the above may have set a forum record for the longest run-on sentence.

How's that old saying go? Twenty six wrongs make a right?
You don't think that it was an admirable attempt to reach maximum nonsense density ("nonsensity")? One or two more "points" and that post might have collapsed upon itself creating a BF black hole.
WhyFi is online now  
Likes For WhyFi:
Old 02-15-21, 04:25 PM
  #168  
guy153
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2019
Posts: 558
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 204 Post(s)
Liked 110 Times in 89 Posts
Originally Posted by TricycleTom View Post
It isn't just the weight - an elegant design gets at least two functions from as many parts as possible. As for the wet, aluminum rims and Mathauser shoes have always been fine for me, including descending the Sierras with 45 lbs of touring gear. For extreme slopes, either system needs extra mass. BTW, the highest generation of heat occurs when the speed of a free descent is halved by the brakes. Faster, and the air is helping, slower and the rate is lower.
Interesting calculation. You mean if the brakes are held on continuously? In other words suppose with no brakes you'd go down a given hill at 50kph. If you drag them on and descend the whole thing at 25kph that's the best way to cook them?

In practice the best way to keep the brakes cool is to brake as late as you dare for the corners because then you're getting as much use as possible out air resistance.
guy153 is offline  
Old 02-15-21, 04:31 PM
  #169  
TricycleTom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Spiritwood, Saskatchewan
Posts: 126

Bikes: Jeunet 12, Car-Cycle X-4, Aerovironment Charger

Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 33 Post(s)
Liked 13 Times in 10 Posts
Originally Posted by guy153 View Post
Interesting calculation. You mean if the brakes are held on continuously? In other words suppose with no brakes you'd go down a given hill at 50kph. If you drag them on and descend the whole thing at 25kph that's the best way to cook them?

In practice the best way to keep the brakes cool is to brake as late as you dare for the corners because then you're getting as much use as possible out air resistance.
Yes, that's it.
TricycleTom is offline  
Likes For TricycleTom:
Old 02-16-21, 04:23 AM
  #170  
sjanzeir
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Jeddah, Saudi Arabia
Posts: 649

Bikes: 1990 Raleigh Flyer; 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 15"); 2014 Trek 7.6 FX (size 17.5"); 2019 Dahon Mu D9

Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 276 Post(s)
Liked 151 Times in 78 Posts
I'm a few planetary orbits below what would constitute an athletic cyclist and a couple of black holes removed from a your average professional racer, and I'm not even in the same galactic cluster as the likes of Chris Froome. My daily riders are almost exclusively a pair of Dahons these days. My "sporting" one is a Mu with good old-fashioned V-brakes; my "pothole crusher" is a late-model Hemingway, factory-equipped with what appear to be de-branded, bottom-of-the-parts-bin Avid mechanical calipers and levers (I figured that they might have been supplied by Avid because they run BB5 pads. My modern full-size hybrids - both with V-brakes) are up for sale; my gas-pipe steel classic is sitting in the balcony, completely disassembled, in search for a replacement frame with good dropouts that's actually my size for a change, but I've all but lost interest in that project altogether.

The Mu's V-brakes work well enough for what they are, how I ride the bike and where. I'm sure the disk brakes on the Hemingway can't hold a candle to even the most basic, entry-level hydraulic disk brakes, or any mechanical TRP, for that matter, but they, too, work well for the way I ride the Hemingway and what I do with it.

Point is, I enjoy each of the two bikes in a different way. That's my current N+1, where N = either one of these Dahons. It doesn't need any more thought put into it than that.

With that being said, while I might be a little curious as to how a possible future Mu or Speed with disk brakes would be like to ride, I can't say that I'm looking forward to the change. In fact, I'm inclined to think that there's a good chance that disk brakes might even ruin the experience. A Hemingway or a Launch with disk brakes might be better for it, but disk brakes could dull the nimble, lightweight feel of a Mu or a Speed. Or they could turn them into better bikes. We won't know for sure until actual Mus/Speeds are available to swing one's leg over. But I'd rather see the Mu/Speed range upgraded to D10 - or even D11 - levels with quality, reliable V-/caliper brakes than merely updating either or both D9's with unbranded, bargain-basement mechanical disk brakes.

This is an irrelevant, pointless, ranty post that's worth much less than ¢2, but here we are.

Last edited by sjanzeir; 03-21-21 at 02:09 PM.
sjanzeir is offline  
Old 02-18-21, 01:45 PM
  #171  
popeye
Senior Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Newport Beach, CA
Posts: 1,696

Bikes: S works Tarmac, Felt TK2 track

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 241 Post(s)
Liked 86 Times in 59 Posts
The Russians are coming.

https://pezcyclingnews.com/features/...akes-on-disks/
popeye is offline  
Likes For popeye:
Old 02-18-21, 03:37 PM
  #172  
surak
Senior Member
 
surak's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2017
Location: Seattle
Posts: 1,334

Bikes: Specialized Roubaix, Canyon Inflite AL SLX, Priority Continuum Onyx, Santana Vision, Kent Dual-Drive Tandem

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 553 Post(s)
Liked 376 Times in 212 Posts
Originally Posted by popeye View Post
the russians are coming with the same set of easily debunked arguments and conspiracy theories that have already wasted so much space in the thread i started.
ftfy.

Last edited by surak; 02-18-21 at 03:38 PM. Reason: trying and failing to fix forum software's idiotic lowercasing of the entire post
surak is offline  
Likes For surak:
Old 02-19-21, 05:02 AM
  #173  
Kapusta
Cyclochondriac
 
Join Date: Feb 2017
Posts: 4,273
Mentioned: 26 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1841 Post(s)
Liked 1,141 Times in 672 Posts
The decline of XC MTB Racing’s influence in mountain biking culture in the late 90s is the best thing that ever happened to mountain bike design and technology.

The world of Road riding would benefit greatly from the same.

The whole neutral support 15 second swap thing is relevant for less than 1% of people who own a road bike, and even for them it is only relevant a small fraction of the time they are riding (when they are actually in a race)

As far as Froomes arguments: if his brakes are constantly rubbing he needs a better mechanic. I can easily get mine not to rub. Overheating? Use a bigger rotor.

Last edited by Kapusta; 02-19-21 at 06:44 AM.
Kapusta is offline  
Old 02-19-21, 12:04 PM
  #174  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,690
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13808 Post(s)
Liked 5,007 Times in 2,823 Posts
Originally Posted by popeye View Post
Says Chris Froome. Who am I to argue with Chris Froome.
"I don't think the technology is quite where it needs to be' says four-time Tour de France winner"
https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/chri...n-disc-brakes/
Derailleurs too, especially SRAM.

Chris Froome is entitled to his opinion, the rest of us are entitled to know from years of experience that he's wrong on this.

And this isn't the racing forum, so anxiety about neutral team support Italy relevant to most of us.
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Old 02-19-21, 12:19 PM
  #175  
Seattle Forrest
Senior Member
 
Seattle Forrest's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 21,690
Mentioned: 71 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 13808 Post(s)
Liked 5,007 Times in 2,823 Posts
Originally Posted by smashndash View Post
I think for dry braking, the hierarchy is quite clear. Alloy rim brakes are at the top, then disc brakes, then carbon clinchers at the bottom.
lol no
Seattle Forrest is offline  
Likes For Seattle Forrest:

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2021 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.