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Bike Choice: SRAM AXS vs More Updated Frame

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Bike Choice: SRAM AXS vs More Updated Frame

Old 02-25-21, 09:48 PM
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oik01
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Bike Choice: SRAM AXS vs More Updated Frame

So I am looking into getting a new bike and obviously this covid market has made things a bit more difficult. Im coming from an early 2000s TREK 5000 and am due an upgrade.

My initial leaning was towards the madone SL6, the idea being that its in my budget, offers sleek looks ( especially if you upgrade the handlebar to hide the wires), aero frame and wheel, speed, plus the comfort of the isospeed. The concern here is that I am buying an 11 speed bike when I feel like everything will be 12 speed soon. The SRAM AXS options for similar bikes seem to be quite a bit more expensive at near 7000 dollars which puts them out of my comfort range for now.

Alternative that came up is the canyon ultimate mainly because I can afford the AXS groupset. I like the idea of having the 12 speed but am concerned that a new iteration of the bike is likely coming out this year. The exposed wires in particular may look aged in the future? ( I am not considering the aeroad mainly because I am afraid its too aggressive and just 15 mm of spacers is not enough for me when my fit continues to evolve). I am just not sure which would be better: Going for a relatively newer looking bike with an outdated groupset, or an outdated bike ( released 2017) with a newer groupset that won't feel dated in years?

For whatever its worth im a young professional, mostly weekend rides, tend to do long days out during the summers, and while I am doing trainer road and aiming to improve I would say I am still in the novice category. FTP around 220 at 160 pounds 6 feet. My position on the bike keeps changing and I feel a bit more confident with the geometry matching on the trek since I can test it out ( My current bike has no geometry charts. In a fit I got a stack figure of 577 and reach of 382 through their software but I am measuring 570 and 390).

So again, not ot digress, what would you think will make the bike feel more aged a few years from now, that newer models are out or that the groupset is a bit outdated?

Last edited by oik01; 02-25-21 at 11:18 PM.
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Old 02-26-21, 01:11 AM
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FYI, 12 speed has been out for quite some time now and is already outdated. 13 speed from Campagnolo is available and is the most up to date drive train.
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Old 02-26-21, 04:45 AM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Alternative that came up is the canyon ultimate mainly because I can afford the AXS groupset. I like the idea of having the 12 speed but am concerned that a new iteration of the bike is likely coming out this year. The exposed wires in particular may look aged in the future?
I'm looking at the Ultimate CF and I don't see any exposed wires. The SRAM eTap groupset is WiFi.

Personally, I'd say you're being a little too concerned with what might happen in the future. I know where you're coming from because I used to do that myself. Get a bike that you'll enjoy riding for the next 10 or so years and it should do you well. That Canyon looks like a lovely bike.
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Old 02-26-21, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
I'm looking at the Ultimate CF and I don't see any exposed wires. The SRAM eTap groupset is WiFi.

Personally, I'd say you're being a little too concerned with what might happen in the future. I know where you're coming from because I used to do that myself. Get a bike that you'll enjoy riding for the next 10 or so years and it should do you well. That Canyon looks like a lovely bike.
This is the pic they have on their website:



Theres wires there. I assume its for the breaks?
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Old 02-26-21, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
This is the pic they have on their website:
Theres wires there. I assume its for the breaks?
Hoses. Hydraulic disc brake lines.
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Old 02-26-21, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Theres wires there. I assume its for the breaks?
No, those aren't wires, they're hoses. I don't know if there's any bike where they are totally hidden; if there is I've never seen it. I can't imagine a day where the brakes are operated wirelessly either. I don't thiink that look is going out of fashion any time soon.
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Old 02-26-21, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
FYI, 12 speed has been out for quite some time now and is already outdated. 13 speed from Campagnolo is available and is the most up to date drive train.
Outdated is a curious word to use for something that is an innovation company's top level offering. Sure another brand has 1 more speed, but that doesnt mean SRAM 12 is outdated.

Grand Tour teams arent using outdated drivetrains. Last year, 14 were on Shimano 11sp, 2 on SRAM 12sp, and 3 on Campy 13sp. This year, 13 are on Shimano 11sp, 2 on SRAM 12sp, and 4 on Campy 13sp.
This doesnt even address all the continental teams, high level amateur teams, etc etc who area all using Shimano or SRAM.

Also, Campy's 13sp is a 1x gravel drivetrain. This thread is about paved road bikes and Campy's road offerings cap out at...12sp Super Record EPS(which is what the pro teams use).
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Old 02-26-21, 08:52 AM
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SRAM AXS is a cool drivetrain. I love that it's totally wireless and 12 speed, which is probably where Shimano will be with their next versions.
That said, I'd have zero concerns buying a new bike with 11sp Shimano. On 2x bikes, I feel like 11sp rear is more than enough.
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Old 02-26-21, 08:56 AM
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Originally Posted by jgwilliams View Post
No, those aren't wires, they're hoses. I don't know if there's any bike where they are totally hidden; if there is I've never seen it. I can't imagine a day where the brakes are operated wirelessly either. I don't thiink that look is going out of fashion any time soon.
There are bikes where the brake hoses are fully hidden. They get routed through the handlebar, into the stem and down through the head tube into the frame. Specialized Tarmac SL7 comes to mind. Note that this particular model is also running wired Di2, with the wiring hidden in the frame:

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Old 02-26-21, 08:59 AM
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A frame like this can be built-up for a reasonable price, using force axs. You get to pick how expensive each part is. A sram force crank is not a must. I've used Campy chorus and shimano grx. I have fairly expensive Easton ec90 bars, zipp stem, smp saddle, fsa k-force carbon post, fulcrum racing 3 wheels, michelin tubeless tires. Well under 5k.

https://www.cinelli-usa.com/supersta...rameset-white/
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Old 02-26-21, 09:06 AM
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Do you have any cross-bike groupset needs? As in one bike will have the fancy 13spd Campag or 12spd SRAM but the others won't? Something to consider.
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Old 02-26-21, 09:52 AM
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A better question would be: "How much should I spend to impress others?"

I really get the impression that if you are asking the question, about top tier offerings, then you don't have any idea what the other offerings even have to offer. It's a lot like asking: "Hey guys, is Dura-Ace right for me?" How should we know? If you, yourself don't even have a point of reference to appreciate the nth degree of refinement.

Recently somebody was so into the ultra-refined wowzers of scotch that they paid over a million dollars at a fancy auction. It's a shame really, because to anyone it's shared with, it'll still just be really old scotch.

FWIW: I'm not a fan of SRAM. Your money would be better spent anywhere else.

You don't need to spend $5000 for a quality bike. In fact with all of modern manufacturing & the ever present rat-race, it's actually kind of hard to buy junk nowadays. If you don't know a fancy uber wonder bike will make you faster or how much it'll do so, then it's supposed benefits will be wasted. (Hint: It won't make you any faster in any way that actually matters, & it will cost a lot.)

Check craigslist for all the 1 or 2 year-old mega ultra bikes at half price. I guarentee you'll find something there that'll make you just as happy.

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Old 02-26-21, 09:58 AM
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Originally Posted by base2 View Post
A better question would be: "How much should I spend to impress others?"

I really get the impression that if you are asking the question, about top tier offerings, then you don't have any idea what the other offerings even have to offer. It's a lot like asking: "Hey guys, is Dura-Ace right for me?" How should we know? If you, yourself don't even have a point of reference to appreciate the nth degree of refinement.

Recently somebody was so into the ultra-refined wowzers of scotch that they paid over a million dollars at a fancy auction. It's a shame really, because to anyone it's shared with, it'll still just be really old scotch.

FWIW: I'm not a fan of SRAM. Your money would be better spent anywhere else.

You don't need to spend $5000 for a quality bike. In fact with all of modern manufacturing & the ever present rat-race, it's actually kind of hard to buy junk nowadays. If you don't know a fancy uber wonder bike will make you faster or how much it'll do so, then it's supposed benefits will be wasted.

Check craigslist for all the 1 or 2 year-old mega ultra bikes at half price. I gaurentee you'll find something there that'll make you just as happy.
So..........don't own a Corvette since you don't know how to drive it at its limits, don't get any splurges in life, be an angry old hermit on your front porch. Got it. Because almost nobody going out and buying $100k sports cars or $150k luxury cars know anything about the cars beyond "pretty, alum trim, leather, sounds cool, feels 'fast' to them".
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Old 02-26-21, 10:42 AM
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep View Post
So..........don't own a Corvette since you don't know how to drive it at its limits, don't get any splurges in life, be an angry old hermit on your front porch. Got it. Because almost nobody going out and buying $100k sports cars or $150k luxury cars know anything about the cars beyond "pretty, alum trim, leather, sounds cool, feels 'fast' to them".
What I'm saying is that a 16 year-old with a Corvette is a waste. (& a stereo-type.)

People who own Bentley's & million dollar scotch don't go around internet messege boards asking if it's right for them.

There are other objectively more practical options available.
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I shouldn't have to "make myself more visible;" Drivers should just stop running people over.
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Old 02-26-21, 10:55 AM
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Hidden hydraulic hoses may look good, but it makes changing bars/stems/hoses much more challenging - and an absolute PIA depending on the setup. Just something to consider.
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Old 02-26-21, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by topflightpro View Post
Hidden hydraulic hoses may look good, but it makes changing bars/stems/hoses much more challenging - and an absolute PIA depending on the setup. Just something to consider.
Thats a fair point.
I guess my question here is how different do you all expect a new version of the ultimate to be when it comes out? Obviously no one can know for sure, but judging by the new tarmac/ emonda etc?
Also is the madone a better suited machine for my goals of riding? Which one do you all think would be more comfortable? Isospeed, or the more compliant frame with room for 32 C tires?
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Old 02-26-21, 11:03 AM
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Posts about Campy Ekar 13 are off-base. It's a mechanical disc only 1X group, intended for gravel bikes. It's midway down the line in price, too, just as it should be. No sense in ultra light and easily broken parts on a gravel bike. What makes it unique is the 9-36, 9-42 and 10-44 cassettes, that use a new freehub body. Campaganolo was innovative there, because the new body can be used with the new 13 speed or previous 9-10-11-12 cassettes. They're now putting this freehub body on all wheels sold for use with Campy drivetrains. Of course they offer freehub bodies for Shimano and SRAM too.

Also of interest might be the fact that Campy and SRAM 12 speed cassettes have nearly identical sprocket spacing. I've use the SRAM 10-36 with a Chorus 12 drivetrain and it shifted great. The problem is all SRAM cassettes start with a 10T sprocket and Campy cassettes all start with an 11. The SRAM cassettes work fine with a Chorus 48/32 crank, but even a 50/34 produces a huge top gear that few would want.
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Old 02-26-21, 11:37 AM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Thats a fair point.
I guess my question here is how different do you all expect a new version of the ultimate to be when it comes out? Obviously no one can know for sure, but judging by the new tarmac/ emonda etc?
Also is the madone a better suited machine for my goals of riding? Which one do you all think would be more comfortable? Isospeed, or the more compliant frame with room for 32 C tires?
Regarding Canyon, I really don't know. Like some of there other bikes, I suspect the highest end options will go full internal routing.

Honestly, find the bike that fits best and meets your budget and go with it. There are not bad options from any of the big manufacturers. And at this point, the advancements with each new version of frame are pretty minor.
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Old 02-26-21, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Hoses. Hydraulic disc brake lines.
I'm saving my money until they come out with wireless braking.
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Old 02-26-21, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Thats a fair point.
I guess my question here is how different do you all expect a new version of the ultimate to be when it comes out? Obviously no one can know for sure, but judging by the new tarmac/ emonda etc?
Also is the madone a better suited machine for my goals of riding? Which one do you all think would be more comfortable? Isospeed, or the more compliant frame with room for 32 C tires?
This thread started out maybe a little pathetic and now is full-blown pathetic.
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Old 02-26-21, 12:26 PM
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Don't buy a Canyon if you're still playing around with your fit. There are few stem options because they use the oversized steerer tube diameter, and most are expensive. And if you go with a one-piece cockpit, your options are even more limited and expensive.
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Old 02-26-21, 12:35 PM
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I always would prioritize the frame. 99% of the enjoyment comes from good fit and geometry. All the high end shifting nowadays (mechanical or electronic) are pretty good and none will ruin your ride like a wrong frame can.
A drivetrain can be changed and is a wear item anyway.
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Old 02-26-21, 03:42 PM
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Originally Posted by oik01 View Post
Thats a fair point.
I guess my question here is how different do you all expect a new version of the ultimate to be when it comes out? Obviously no one can know for sure, but judging by the new tarmac/ emonda etc?
Also is the madone a better suited machine for my goals of riding? Which one do you all think would be more comfortable? Isospeed, or the more compliant frame with room for 32 C tires?
How different? Well I think its a safe bet to say the new version wont be a full suspension MTB, so it wont be that different.
I bet the new version will increase stiffness by 14% for power transmission while improving comfort by 9%. I bet it will be more aerodynamic than the current model which will result in 18 seconds saved over a 50K ride. It will be statistically improved and difficult to tell when on the bike.
Maybe they change the cable routing or cut out a hole in the down tube for storage- nothing like that would significantly change my riding experience. Maybe you are wowed by those things.
Maybe they make more parts of the bike proprietary and reduce the ability to change things to what you want.
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Old 02-27-21, 07:29 AM
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The purpose of suggesting 13 speed Campagnolo is the most up to date drive train is that only a few years ago no one even considered 13 speed are needed, and before that 12 speed, before that 11 speed, etc. I recall when 10 speed was released every one at the shop said it was the ultimate number of sprockets on the rear wheel. Now look at things.
For what it is worth, any drive train can be used in any environment. Back in the very old days when racing ATB we were running 600 road on our race rigs. Not sure why we did outside of lower weight and it was cool. Mavic sealed cartridge bearing hubs (501) because we didn't have to service them made sense at the time, and proved to be a very good choice.

Get what you like, do not concern yourself with what is going to be future tech. Just one thought, however, this year is Shimano's 100th anniversary. They will have wireless Dura Ace and who know what else. You may want to wait until their new product is released to see what neat stuff they did in celebration of the anniversary.
I second the motion to consider the ultra sleek look of through the bars/stem/frame routing of cables and hoses. It is a complete PIA to change the stem and hbar. If the stem needs to be raised or changed to a longer or shorter length, the cable and brake hose length must be changed to accommodate the change. This means cut to be made shorter or replaced with a longer length to accommodate a longer stem or higher stem. Expensive and a PIA. Also note that if you need to to go 2+ centimeters in height it will be difficult to do and on some frames not possible. Strongly consider this, and make sure you get a professional fitting before buying as some people cannot fit these frames.
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Old 02-27-21, 08:41 AM
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13 speed is not used by pro teams in the tour, as someone suggested. Campy 12 speed is used. A typical 12 speed 2X drivetrain has 15 distinctly different gear ratios available. SRAM chose to increase range with a 12th sprocket, then took it away with their 13T difference at the crank. I fixed that with a Campy chorus crank or Shimano grx crank with 16T difference. I've now got a 552% range for the mountains, with a 10-36 cassette and 46/30 crank. Of course the 10-33, 10-28 or 10-26 cassettes can also be used.
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