kingston 

At your 5 hour 100k pace you're up to 23 hours a week in week 4, and it goes up from there. It doesn't look to me like a very realistic plan for someone at your current level of fitness.

Machka 

Burnout.

dual650c

To imply that I'm somehow going to be cheating is both baseless and borderline offensive. If an organizer of any sporting event decides to waive entry requirements for one or more participants, well, that's nothing new - golf, bowling and tennis tournaments as well as big-time marathon running events come to mind quite readily. You may not agree with the practice, but it has nothing to do with cheating. If I ride the route and distance simultaneously with others, then I've ridden the route and distance whether there's an formal event going on or not. There's no been cheating involved.

So, I've solidified my impression of you too, sir. As accomplished as you are, it's been relatively obvious that this is apparently a hot topic for you for some reason. Somehow you got offended where no offense was intended. Your mind is now biased and closed. I think that we'll both be happier if both of us ignore the Reply/Quote button in this thread in response to each other. We'll probably be happier.

My last words to you about this:
I've indicated in all my posts primacy of participation on my part, not going after a "reward"/an award such as a medal. It's also well known that participation in brevets in the US has been allowed for non-RUSA members without requiring either actual RUSA or local club membership both on a case by case basis and as a general policy for certain events. (In other cases, some local clubs running events insist on local club membership to allow any participation, something that seems to be counter to the spirit of Randonneuring as it feels like a money grab to me.) Sometimes the non-RUSA members just haven't gotten "official" mileage or medals; sometimes they have gotten a medal(s) and/or event paraphernalia, just not from RUSA itself.

Randonneuring, as we all know, is predicated on the concept of self-supported long-distance riding. I'll be making my own food & lodging reservations before, during and after the ride (or more likely, rooming with my friend/his family whenever possible). If I suffer a mechanical while riding, hell, I'm on my own as if I were touring. If I suffer a medical issue, no event personnel would normally be involved anyway in my experience. So, I'm definitely being self-supporting as far as I can see.

Basically, with the possible exception of using bag drops, I'd be "participating" in a long ride with a friend I haven't seen in a couple years (him officially and me along for the ride), probably the last time we'll ever get to see each other and ride together. My interest, outside of seeing my friend, is the challenge of the distance and it being accomplished overseas, well outside my normal comfort zone. If I were merely chasing an official 1200km bucket list accomplishment, I'd stay within the continental US. It'd certainly be cheaper but the non-financial feasibility issues would be the same.

That's the last comment I'll direct towards you. Take it for what it's worth.

dual650c

I will definitely consider this and likely adjust as things develop. Time is a free resource for me. That is, I don't pay for it and riding doesn't take anything away from anything else I have going. I'm retired.

kingston 

You can certainly ride that much if you want to, but it's unnecessary IMO if your're just trying to finish in the time limit. Outside of a few long rides before the event (a roll-your-own SR if you like), you should be able to build up to that distance in 10-15 hours a week. Here are a couple of training plans. You'll see it's a lot lower mileage than you have in your plan. I'd also recommend a couple days a week of strength training, especially core exercises.

Steamer

I tend to agree with Rowan.


No passion here. Not a hot topic with me. Just sounds disrespectful to the other riders.

kingston 

It ain't PBP. I doubt anyone in Uzbekistan will care if the guy has done official series or not. They'll probably just be glad to have another rider.

dual650c

For you and those who, like you, feel disrespected then...

Here's a selection of quotes from the Grand Randonees listed on the RUSA site regarding the flexibility of entry/participation qualifications. (I just started at the top of their list on page Grand Randonees (https://rusa.org/pages/grand-brevets) and worked straight downward.)

What I take from that is that anyone can ride these events at the discretion of one or more organizers. I just have a waiver of the written qualifications to ride, however they were arrived at. Knowing that gives me no advantage, takes nothing away from anyone else and is in no way cheating or being disrespectful to anyone.

pdlamb

If you were to go look at some of the early RUSA newsletters that are online and available to read even without buying a $25 membership, you might find some long, interesting articles about the early history of the organization. Such as how randonneurs from Florida had the smallest fraction of finishers at the first PBP for which RUSA was organized. Or how RUSA interviewed many of those, and they were shocked at how hilly PBP was. Or how RUSA worked to encourage randonneurs from flatter areas to search out and experience hilly brevets to increase the finish rate, and in the process, to preserve its own charter to qualify riders for future PBPs.


Based on your responses, you don't like the advice for which you asked. Therefore, you might be wise to develop some back-up plans, like riding part of this foreign ride as a tourist. Can you ride the first 150k, do a couple short rides from there, and hook up with your friend on the last day of the ride?

dual650c

For what it's worth, I did my planned metric again today in 5hrs 15 min. Started with no residual discomfort from yesterday. Roughly the same performance as yesterday - some speed/cadence inconsistency but rode through without stopping. Equal soreness in the knees as when I ended yesterday,

We'll see what happens Monday.

dual650c

Actually, for the most part, I value the responses. That doesn't mean I will follow them to the letter but rather will likely temper my current state of over-enthusiasm/hopefulness with that advice and those suggestions as this plays out for me.

If any 3 people had flat out said "not likely dude... fail fail fail" based on experienes or knowledge of others who'd failed miserably trying, I'd probably have seriously considered dropping this as a possibility. I haven't heard that, so... there's still hope.

Rowan

You are full of BS. You talk about the organiser waiving conditions of entry for you, yet you now say you are riding with him as an independent and self-supported from the event.

You say that if a medical emergency occurs, the event won't have to respond -- reallly? You will be riding within the framework of the event, with your friend, yet you don't expect him to divert his attention as organiser to assist you?

You are someone who is an outsider here. Yep, I am being totally frank. You don't have a feel for randonneuring -- its aims, and the achievements, and the efforts involved by people who ordinarly wouldn't even consider themselves elite athletes. You just see it as a moneygrab.

Trust me... randonneuring is the least money-grabbing sport I know, and to say that insults all the volunteer organisers who go to great trouble to ensure people have challenging routes and pay great attention to risk management.

The waiving of conditions clause in most 1200s that I know of enables the organisers to consider (paid-up) entries from people who can show that in the past year or two, the applicant has participated in long-distance riding of some sort.

That might be several 24-hour rides with distances around 600km; 1000km randonnees; or circumstances that prevented the applicant from completing an SR series this season, but they did the previous season. Each case should be treated on its merits. Personal friendships do not count; in your case, with virtually no current history, you would not qualify for any waiver.

And yep, cheating in this sport is a hot topic for me. I served on a national Audax Australia committee that dismissed an appeal by two teams that disregarded the rules in a fleche last year on their way to setting record distances. They cheated to set their records, whether intentionally or not. One was an Olympic gold medallist in rowing.

Hopefully, the message will get through that the rules are there to be followed, not ignored.

By the way, you don't really have much of a clue about bike fit, even with the Barchetta. Knee pain is an indication that something is amiss with distance from your hips to the pedals. Bike fit is NOT worked out in a 20-mile ride... it is dynamic and can change, and needs tweeking more frequently that you think. Just a piece of gratuitous advice to help you along the way.

dual650c

I finally got to really look at those 2 plans you provided links to. Wow, those plans have far less riding than my draft plan, as you said. I don't see how that actually works out as riding 200 and 300 distances have been different for me when I consider the one time I did a solo ~300km ride just to see if I could.

That difference also makes it difficult for me to project how different a 400 would be from my shorter distance experiences as the ~300km is the farthest I ever rode at a single stretch. It's very hard for me to believe in it though I have now done some Internet searching and found that similar graduated short distance training leads to long distance success plans seem to be popular recommendations.

I will definitely have to think hard about this shorter distance plan/structure.

Machka 

+1

Rude and disrespectful to other riders and the organisers/volunteers, etc.



It is generally frowned on for riders to ride along on any sort of long distance event without going through the qualification process and without paying.

The reason is not because the events are "money grabs" as you seem to think ... it has to do with insurance and liability and things like that. It also has to do with respect for the other riders and the organisers/volunteers.

We had someone ring up days before a recent 1000K event wondering if he could ride along with the other riders but not pay. That put the ride organiser in a really difficult position given that the 1000K is particularly challenging. If he said yes, and the rider got into trouble (as riders do on this particular 1000K) ... is he morally obligated to help the rider? And what if by doing so, he wasn't able to help a paying rider.


Sorry but you've wandered into a rather touchy topic for those of us who do put in the required effort and do pay the money ... and especially for those of us who organise the rides.

clasher

I started randonneuring in 2015 with the hope of going to pbp that same year. I'd done an imperial century and a bit of touring. I DNF'ed a 400 but then finished my next one and had to DNF on a 600 so I didn't qualify in time. I ended up straining a muscle in my calf and had to do physio and I ended up buying another bike with a different fit that seemed to help me as I did a whole SR in 2016 without any injuries and improved my finishing times too.

Ramp up slowly and keep an eye on any soreness before it becomes an injury. I would recommend doing a full series even if it's unofficial because there is a world of difference between a 400 and a 300, the night riding alone is one factor, plus the exhaustion. At least on a 600 one can usually get a bit of sleep.

Carbonfiberboy 

This is all so weird. A guy going off to ride somewhere that he can't say where, seemingly unfamiliar with equipment, the concepts of distance riding, the concepts of training for anything, no route profile, no apparent knowledge of what he's getting into. I did crazy stuff like that when I was young but I had experience and knew enough to not get myself in trouble or at least I evidently didn't die. And didn't attempt anything this crazy. I've seen photos of Eurasian 1200s. Doesn't look like anything I'd attempt without having ridden brevets for a few years and done a couple of difficult 1200s on this continent where I at least know the language. And nothing I'd attempt with any of my current bikes. It's just all so strange. What I really can't figure out is what's going on in his friend's head. What's the upside? Sell him to a slaver? My mother would have worried. That Stones lyric "Troubadours who got killed before they reached Bombay" comes to mind. I was in Turkey with my motorcycle when all that was going on and spoke to many of the survivors on their way back.

Be sure all your legal paperwork is in order before you leave and say goodbye to everyone.

Oh, and 12 mph isn't going to cut it. I'd want to be doing a hilly 100k in 4 hours this far out from the event. The further you go, the slower you have to go.

IK_biker

Not likely, dude... fail fail fail!

Can we get 2 more votes in here?

Drew Eckhardt 

I didn't notice any fit problems until after I rode my first century in years and 134 miles the next month. After that that my knee hurt when I rode short distances.

Got that fixed, and 210/203/125/104 mile rides were all fine.

Something is wrong if you are sore any place other than your leg muscles.

kingston 

I think there's an outside chance of pulling it off. I'd put the odds at around 50:1.

unterhausen

my impression is that riding a 1200k or 1000k without a series happens a lot more than you might think. If an organizer wants to invite someone without riding the qualifiers, that's up to them

dual650c

You've obviously been misreading or overlooking stuff I posted. It also seems that you're accepting assumptions and comments of others as facts counter to what I've written though I have no idea why.

1. I have ridden quite a bit - Check the first couple of posts I made.

2. I know the route and terrain I'm gonna ride in - Again, check the first couple of posts I made - I said rolling hills with one long climb though I didn't detail the route.

3. Don't know the concepts of training? At best that's kinda open for discussion, isn't it? I started the thread being open to suggestions. I hoped that the different experiences and knowledge available via forum participants here would offer different perspectives for me to consider, not accusations and outrage.

4. Unfamiliar with equipment? I have no idea where you got that. Oh wait, I know exactly whose post first implied that and it wasn't mine.

5. I COULD say where the 1200km event is but I anticipated some people might get their noses out-of-joint about my being offered an entry requirement waiver as has happened here. In order to avoid bringing the kind of outrage, snide remarks and self-righteous condemnation made by commenters here onto him or his event, I have chosen not to name the specific event. Some of those people have taken offense to that, hence the appelation "nose-out-of-joint". A couple people have made guesses about which event, when and where it is, but I haven't confirmed or denied anything other than a huge continental landmass and a vague reference on the date of the event.

6. Lack of knowledge of concepts of brevets? Do you say that because my perspective doesn't jive with others with respect to the sport's organizational histories, propaganda and/or certain individual(s)'s sense(s) of self-importance because they've been in an organization's "leadership"? Sorry, that just doesn't back up your point logically. I didn't and don't claim to be a K-hound, a Mondial or Galaxy award holder and have definitely indicated that I don't want to do an "official" SR series, but even someone with only a single brevet under his belt would have some knowledge about brevets, wouldn't he? So, what is your point/basis for the comment? (Note that I didn't say I only had a single brevet under my belt.)

7. 12mph over a metric century too slow? I think you might be overlooking that I am re-starting after quite a while off the bike. Do you expect that there will be no improvement as my fitness improves? That seems pretty pessimistic, but there's at least a possibility you might be correct. So, I'll note it and move on.

This is the one comment of yours that I really like. Actually, I HAVE done things "this crazy" before. Like marching 120 miles in military gear in 4 days as part of a team (Nimegen Volksmarch - look it up) on just 3 weeks "training". "Crazy" is one of the appeals here though I termed it "a once in a lifetime opportunity". But if you like "crazy", go with it.

Last question, where did you get the idea I have no idea of what I'm getting into? Seriously!?!

I routinely look for your posts to read and consider. This one, however, surprises me more than usual.

Steamer

The fact that the event won't be named shows that the OP knows he's pulling a dirty trick. If all is on the up and up, then why the secret?

kingston 

This is the best point so far. There are plenty of ways to prepare for a 1200k without going on organized rides, so I personally don't see what all the fuss is about if the guy legitimately thinks he can pull it off and has the approval from the organizer. But it's pretty lame that he's being all sneaky about it. It's either on the up-and-up or it's not.

Rowan

Had the OP come to this forum and asked questions as a legitimate participant in randonneuring, several of us would have been much more comfortable offering advice so the guy could achieve his objective.

But once he revealed that he is going to cheat from the get-go... and not even pay and entry fee, yet make use of the event's drop bag services at the expense of the other riders... well, he lost me.

unterhausen, I am a little surprised at your post. Let one character into an event with no qualifying and without paying, and suddenly everyone wanting to ride long randonnees will be expecting the same treatment. The list that the OP provided which detailed exemptions, said absolutely nothing about "mates rates" and friendships allowing dispensation. Your attitude is exactly why cheating is more rife in randonneuring than many people let on.

Or maybe it's just become the American way.

Carbonfiberboy 

Than keep reading.
"Quite a bit" is some nebulous concept which I count as nada. How many miles/year for the past 5 years?

Sorry, but that's a big vague. How many thousands of meters climbing? Divvied up how? What are the roads like? What is the support from the inhabitants like? You are making it sound like you simply don't know.

Doesn't seem open to discussion to me. You blew any presumption of knowledge away pronto. Most riders with any long distance experience know pretty much exactly how to train for an event. If they need advice, it's about fine details about recovery, intensity, stuff like that.

Most randos are very interested in precisely what equipment might be best for particular brevets. You don't seem to be interested, which to me admits an unfamiliarity with equipment. OTOH no one could give you equipment advice for an unknown secret route in a secret location.

You are correct about this. Your anticipation of outrage is in fact outrageous. Never ran across anything like this before.

You don't ask the questions or make the statements that I associate with an experienced rando. One who has not participated is bound to be unfamiliar with the concepts. It's not just words on paper.

That's the problem right there. We know you are re-starting and are rather untalented (sorry, but that's how it is.) Going from there to meeting control closing times on a 1200 is maybe a 5 year process. That you don't get this is a big red flag. One of my slower mountain brevets was a 400 I rode in my mid-60's. I was in the saddle for 15.5 hours, but ET was 18.5 hours and I had a lot of experience in getting in and out of controls quickly. You don't realize how much fatigue adds to the time spent at controls. A friend of mine, a fit, fairly fast, and experienced rider who had trained for 3 years specifically for this event had to dig very deeply just to make the closing time at PBP. That's a wonderfully well-supported brevet ridden in populated countryside on decent roads.

30 miles/day for 4 days is not that big a deal. Last summer, Anish (a female) hiked 800 miles in under 20 days, totally unsupported.

The totality of your posts rather activated my spidey sense. I'm a student of disaster, having been in some difficult situations myself. I hope I'm wrong and you'll be fine.

Sorry to bum you out, but I think it's for the best. Try not to be so defensive and try to see the positive in it. Research, research, research, whenever you aren't riding. I've done long foreign routes where I was able to "ride" the whole thing in Google Earth. Maybe you can't do that, but the more prep, the better.