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What possesses you to ride 400k (or 600k or 1200k)

Old 02-28-12, 02:12 PM
  #1  
clarkgriswold
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What possesses you to ride 400k (or 600k or 1200k)

I finished my first 400 last weekend. I'd done two 300ks and have done 200ks for a couple of years now.

However, the ride was not only challenging physically, from a mental standpoint was pretty boring. There is only so much soul searching and singing to myself i can do on a ride, and at night time i can't look at the flora or fauna.

It was just over 250 miles. One riding buddy and I made it almost 150 miles before the sun set. The remaining 100 miles in the (cold for Texas) darkness was pretty miserable. Other than the fact I can say I completed it, I don't really see why I would want to do it again.

For me, 100k's are great and I have almost the entire day to do my 'normal' things. A century is a nice little challenge. A 200k and I still have my night to do what I want. A 300k is a challenge, but I have the Sunday left over from a weekend if I ride it on a Saturday really early or start Friday evening.

However on a 400k it just took so long to complete, that I feel like it's dimishing returns on both satisfaction and health benefits. Maybe I'm just feeling like I was beat up by the ride - but what drives you to do these more than once?
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Old 02-28-12, 02:58 PM
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If you feel that way about a 400K, they probably aren't for you at this point.

I used to really enjoy the night riding part of the longer rides ... quietly riding along, listening to the night sounds, speculating what this might be or that might be, enjoying the peace. In fact, on the Last Chance, the best part of that event is riding at night.

Was it a flat 400K? I really wish I had a flat 400K in my area. All we've got are hills, and vistas overlooking valleys and the oceans, and strong sea breezes, and more hills, and it's a struggle to get around the course.
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Old 02-28-12, 03:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka
I really wish I had a flat 400K in my area. All we've got are hills, and vistas overlooking valleys and the oceans, and strong sea breezes, and more hills, and it's a struggle to get around the course.
The "Around the Bend" 400 in Arizona on March 10th only has 2,858 ft of climbing.

I like riding at night also - it's amazing to me!
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Old 02-28-12, 04:26 PM
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I'm also not a big fan of night riding, so I've limited myself to 400k on my single. I can easily do a flat 400 in daylight, and a mountainous one with only an hour of darkness. On a summer 600, my approach would be to do the 400 part mostly in daylight, sleep until just before dawn, and get 'er done before the limit. Same theory for longer rides, though that's just theory for me, having not done them, but that's how my riding buddies approach them in their old age. And I'm not even fast, just well trained and on a good bike. You only have to average about 14 on elapsed time, which is about 16 in the saddle. So that's another suggestion: research it and train it up.
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Old 02-28-12, 04:49 PM
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I've ridden the local 400k and 600ks to the point that I could do them in my sleep. The point isn't to have a goal to rise to the monotony. The point is to use them to train for the rides that really count! I've been chatting w/ a fellow rider that I met on one of those 'boring' rides about a dream ride-Mumbai to Veranassi India - (1600K). Never mind the inner mental journey thatis required to prepare for such a journey. The goal is to see not only the country but the world in a deeper way than thru the window of a tour bus. A 60 mile spin doesn't compare with the depth of the experience of an 800 mile ride- you see and do a lot. There are a lot of century level events around here. Folks make a big deal about them but complain about the length of the snack-n-sandwich lines. Personally, the idea of riding across Spain has greater appeal. I think being conditioned enough to tackle the harder Randonees increases the chance I'll really enjoy those Bucket List rides!

I do my share of moaning and groaning and crying on these rides and I declaire 'never again!!' every single time. But then I remember what if felt like to ride through the French countryside at twilight with a meal in my stomach that blew my mind.... and I'm planning the next adventure.

Sure beats Seinfield reruns...

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Old 02-28-12, 04:50 PM
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I like riding at night unless I'm really tired. The 400k's I've ridden where I've been slow have been really enjoyable for me. I like being out in the dark when there is no traffic. I did ride one where the last 5 hours was in the rain in the dark, that I could have done without.

I think a lot of the attraction is similar to when I realized I was less than 30 miles from the end of my first 300k, and I felt great. I knew then that I could ride as far as I wanted. The last 30 miles of my first 600k was also pretty exciting. Now for longer rides, the pre-ride stress is lower, and the excitement is lower, but I am pretty confident in what I can do.

I have mentioned here many times that my worst stretch is between 50-100 miles. Usually that's where I do things like multiply large numbers together to keep my mind busy. Once I get over that hump, I'm usually just enjoying the ride.

Last edited by unterhausen; 02-28-12 at 05:40 PM.
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Old 02-28-12, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Machka
If you feel that way about a 400K, they probably aren't for you at this point.
That certainly seemed to be the point he was making. It also seemed like he was inquiring what the appeal of the 400K is to his fellow randonneurs.
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Old 02-28-12, 07:55 PM
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Sekhem has the right answer. I can easily see getting bored with the brevets in AZ - most of the ones here tend to frequently follow portions of the same roads. I'm not riding them simply for brevet fame and fortune .... I have bigger goals in mind! These goals keep me motivated and if I'm successful this year, I can see expanding my horizons in the same manner as Sekhem.
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Old 02-28-12, 09:17 PM
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N + 1 for Sekhum

He sums it up and i have yet to ride more than 100 miles.
Driving across Kansas or Nebraska, at night, or Texas (I-10) by yourself is as close as i can imagine to riding 800 to 1600 km. I have driven Kansas ,by myself, twice) I watch the news clips of the first Race Across America to learn what physical maladies can happen and what causes them.

I regard every ride as experience gained to learn how to fuel the body and entertain the mind for long rides. I have no support or training ride friends so it is a challenge to get out the door. The accomplishment of doing long distance is not in the ride itself or the physical effort. I imagine it is in the accomplishment of a set upon task. A culmination of a series of events (training and planning) that resulted in a successful conclusion.

Maybe one in three of my ride work out as planned. Being be chased by dogs, close encounters with cars and weather all work into the determination if a ride was a success.

The distance in only a factor planning training. If it takes me a dozen try's to finish a 600k or a 1,200k and if i complete only one all the benefits of the journey will have been worth it. If it was my sole goal to ride 1,200 k that would be boring. Teaching the body and mind to be able to do 1,200 is much more appealing.
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Old 02-28-12, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Dudelsack
That certainly seemed to be the point he was making. It also seemed like he was inquiring what the appeal of the 400K is to his fellow randonneurs.
I have made up my mind never to try to motivate someone else to engage in randonneuring. I think you have to want to do it, and it really helps if you have a goal in mind when you start. I wanted to qualify for PBP, so I had to ride an SR series. I would never suggest to someone that they should want to complete an SR series. I will encourage people that I know want to achieve something like that, but if they don't like it, that's fine with me. Last summer I didn't finish a 600k because I didn't need to, I was just getting over an illness, and I had bad saddle sores. I'm glad nobody really pushed me to ride the last 200k, because I was perfectly happy to get some sleep instead. If that had been my only chance to qualify for PBP, I would have finished the ride.
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Old 02-28-12, 09:25 PM
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I do long rides because I enjoy them. I like night riding, day riding, dry, rain, flat, hills, alone, with friends. It's all good.

Carbonfiberboy: If you can do a 400k with a total average of 14 mph you ARE fast compared with most randos I know. Also you must be riding in midsummer because even then you need about 18 hours of daylight to do 400k without riding in the dark.
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Old 02-28-12, 09:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Carbonfiberboy
On a summer 600, my approach would be to do the 400 part mostly in daylight, sleep until just before dawn, and get 'er done before the limit. Same theory for longer rides, though that's just theory for me, having not done them, but that's how my riding buddies approach them in their old age.
I found that I made really horrible time on PBP when I woke up in the early morning and rode. My goal is to ride fast enough that I can get in more sleep and do less riding in the early morning. I actually ended up sleeping a lot, but I never really figured out the controle closing times so I would sleep for shorter periods. I saw a story about Lon Halderman showing up to PBP with the controle closing times taped to his top tube. His plan was to sleep 8 hours every night. I don't think I will ever be that fast again, but it's a goal. I certainly had some fast stretches on the way back from Brest, but I wasted most of the time I gained sleeping beside the road during the day. That is a mistake I'm not making again.
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Old 02-28-12, 09:38 PM
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Well, there's several different things. First off, a 400k is not as fun as a 200k, and that's why most of us do a lot more 200k's. Secondly, the overall "fun" involved is partly achieved after the event, knowing you did it, and not entirely at the time. Thirdly, bad weather makes any ride worse, but if you only ride in ideal weather, you won't be physically or mentally prepared to ride in the good weather, either.

However, the number one thing that made a difference for me was riding with other people as opposed to riding by myself. When I first started rando riding, I finished my R-12 and every ride was partly or completely solo. So I had 3500k in that year, I think. The following year, I got to start riding with the groups, and that year, I had 12,000k or so- a big difference. Last weekend, I rode with Gary and Dana (who ride in Houston quite a bit), with Charlie (also rides a lot in Houston), with Ray, and with Debbie. We all stayed more or less together and had a fun time of it on a 300k. The week before that, we were riding in a cold rain, and it was just Gary and Debbie and me, but that still made it a heck of a lot better than it would have been solo. I am digging this now.
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Old 02-29-12, 02:20 AM
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Originally Posted by unterhausen
I have made up my mind never to try to motivate someone else to engage in randonneuring. I think you have to want to do it, and it really helps if you have a goal in mind when you start. I wanted to qualify for PBP, so I had to ride an SR series. I would never suggest to someone that they should want to complete an SR series. I will encourage people that I know want to achieve something like that, but if they don't like it, that's fine with me. Last summer I didn't finish a 600k because I didn't need to, I was just getting over an illness, and I had bad saddle sores. I'm glad nobody really pushed me to ride the last 200k, because I was perfectly happy to get some sleep instead. If that had been my only chance to qualify for PBP, I would have finished the ride.
+1

And we're where you are ... if the ride just isn't fun anymore, we call it a day.
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Old 02-29-12, 06:23 AM
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I'll add that it seems to be that the more of this stuff you do, dare I say that the easier it gets. I remember being fairly well trashed at the end of my first 400K and 600K. I've done a fair number of those distances since, plus some 1200Ks, and I feel better at the end of every one of them. The rides are still plenty challenging and require a good base of fitness and some hard work, but my body isn't in rebellion at the end of them like it used to be. I think part of this is that I learned to ride "smarter" over the years -- pacing yourself on rides of these lengths is critical -- but I also think the body just gets used to the familiar "routine" of doing a long ride.

As for the enjoyment of it, I've had plenty of tough moments on the bike but I don't think I've ever had a boring one. I'm easily amused.
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Old 02-29-12, 08:07 AM
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Any thoughts about Tim Noakes' Central Governor theory?
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Old 02-29-12, 09:25 AM
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I'll never understand some people -- those that are riding ONLY so they can do something else.

To the OP -- try slowing down about 1 mph, and as I wrote somewhere on BF a few years ago: "Enjoy the ride. Ride for the enjoyment."


I'll add two things:

1. At approx 145-miles into my first 300k, which was a solo ride btw -- it was a brevet, but I fit into a "hole", anyway, at ~ 145-miles, hands hurt, my feet hurt, my butt hurt, each calf had cramped at least once and each leg hurt, I knew that IF, repeat IF, I managed to finish the ride ... I was NEVER EVER going to get on a bicycle again, PERIOD.

Five or ten miles later, dusk turning to darkness, a warm spring sprinkle-rain falling onto and cooling my overheated quads, my feet no longer hurting, my hands no longer hurting, my butt no longer hurting, ... I heard myself thinking, "man, you can do this !" I was not referring to that 300; I was referring to the 400 and the 600 !

I've met people that have had a similar experience. I've read of similar experiences.

I did not complete the SR in 2010 -- my first year of rando. I've mentioned why elsewhere.

2. Last year, all the SR rides were MUCH easier than in 2010. Even the 600 was "easy", but for a reason. My buddy Robert -- the only person I've recruited to randonneuring -- wanted to go to Paris; I had no ambitions along those lines. Due to "life issues", and a failed 400 in Texas (which is an interesting story in itself), Robert had no legs, repeat NO LEGS (in the usual rando usage -- not "impaired"). The easiest way for him to qualify for PBP was to do the local 600; he planned to use my legs.

Blah, blah, blah ... Robert and I rode that entire 600 together at a pace to allow his "no legs" to finish. Three others had planned to ride with us, but I had two flats at about 50 and 54 miles into the ride, so we waved them on -- only saw them at controls thereafter. One person joined us for most of the ride en route, and ... he went to Paris. Several others joined for various parts of the ride.

I was tired after the ride, but it had been easy. I was in better mental and physical shape than a year earlier, but I think the main reason that it seemed easy was because I was concentrating on someone else, and not on any issues I might have had.

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Old 02-29-12, 09:53 AM
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There seems to be at least one common theme to certain posts here. Skiffrun's latest appears to be the latest in that riding with someone else really makes the journey more enjoyable.

Last year, I popped up on the AZ rando list and kind of introduced myself. It's a great group of people but there weren't a lot of responses to my post. One guy sent me an email and we met on my first ever brevet - an attempt that failed.

Later, I dug out his email and we agreed to meet and ride together. He has a recumbent but he's equally comfortable on his DF. David completed something like 20 centuries last year but I think that 100 miles was his most miles in any one event. He's strong.

We managed to ride together a few times - enough to recognize that our personalities were a good match. Along the way, I upgraded to a new bike. When I was on the Giro, he could drip me like a bad habit but was always good as waiting for me at major turns. On the new bike, I don't think he can drop me - I think I have way more miles than him this year so it's not so much the bike but the bike motivating me to ride harder/further/faster.

We did a century in Jan followed by a 300 in early Feb. That solidified our partnership and as David noted, he likes to think of these brevets as just a long ride with a good friend.

The big goal is the 2015 PBP. I'll be just a few years south of 60 and cycling will help me maintain my health which, for the most part, is excellent. David is on-board with that and we plan to take our wives with us & make it a "big" trip.

Working back from 2015, this year's goal is to complete the SR series. Between now and 2015, back to the OP's point, I'll likely limit local brevets to 300-km or less. We have a few fast local brevet riders and I'd like to lower my times to something near theirs.

I'll look to out-of-state events to explore new territories on the longer brevets. I'd also like to give back to the local group and volunteer my support for their longer brevets. I hope this will help keep me fresh and focused.

I wish I could take this energy and passion for cycling and translate it to career success but I've had to accept that, like my father, I work to live rather than live to work. That's not such a bad thing eh?
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Old 02-29-12, 10:01 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by clarkgriswold
...However, the ride was not only challenging physically, from a mental standpoint was pretty boring. There is only so much soul searching and singing to myself i can do on a ride, and at night time i can't look at the flora or fauna...
I've found that when I talk to myself I meet a higher class of people. If I catch myself arguing with myself I just figure, what the heck, he started it. If you can't get along with yourself it can be tough to do these rides. Personally, I love riding at night and if you really pay attention you'd be surprised at the wildlife you will see in the dark. More than that I really enjoy the company of my fellow riders. Even in the old days when it was just three or four of us out there we pretty much rode together. Lots of fun times and great memories...
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Old 02-29-12, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Homeyba
I've found that when I talk to myself I meet a higher class of people. If I catch myself arguing with myself I just figure, what the heck, he started it. If you can't get along with yourself it can be tough to do these rides. Personally, I love riding at night and if you really pay attention you'd be surprised at the wildlife you will see in the dark. More than that I really enjoy the company of my fellow riders. Even in the old days when it was just three or four of us out there we pretty much rode together. Lots of fun times and great memories...
fellow riders are fun and all until they start hallucinating. In most locales I'm familiar with, traffic really drops off after about 8:00 PM. Usually the wind dies down too. Perfect riding conditions if you have good lights.

One night I surprised a raccoon that was about to cross the road. At least I think it was a raccoon, all I saw was his front leg reaching out of some brush. They have the weirdest front legs, particularly when you can't see the body it is attached to.
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Old 02-29-12, 07:23 PM
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Originally Posted by k7baixo
There seems to be at least one common theme to certain posts here. Skiffrun's latest appears to be the latest in that riding with someone else really makes the journey more enjoyable. ...
Gee, I thought I was leaving a message that people often have a break-through moment in which they realize "I can do this and I am enjoying it ! (the 300 story); and I thought the 600 story was a message about how it was easier when I was focused on something "not-me".
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Old 02-29-12, 08:31 PM
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Apologies for missing the point! Working and posting is iffy at times!

By the way, I drove portion's of your 600's route many times from about 87 to 91 which was prior to the interstate ending in Wilmington. We always seemed to get stuck behind school buses! I loved it in Wilmington/wrightsville beach!

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Old 02-29-12, 08:57 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by skiffrun
Gee, I thought I was leaving a message that people often have a break-through moment in which they realize "I can do this and I am enjoying it ! (the 300 story); and I thought the 600 story was a message about how it was easier when I was focused on something "not-me".
I think you got those messages across. I agree about the importance of focusing outside yourself. I think you have to do that even when you are not riding with someone. If you focus too much on how you feel and how far you have to go that is a recipe for DNF. You have to have a wandering mind.
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Old 03-01-12, 10:04 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by cheg
I do long rides because I enjoy them. I like night riding, day riding, dry, rain, flat, hills, alone, with friends. It's all good.

Carbonfiberboy: If you can do a 400k with a total average of 14 mph you ARE fast compared with most randos I know. Also you must be riding in midsummer because even then you need about 18 hours of daylight to do 400k without riding in the dark.
Hi, Chris,

You might be interested in the graph on the following page:

https://dcrand.org/dcr/randostats.php?page=A9040

It shows the distribution of ride completions on all US 400Km's over the last four years, as well as ride completions on DC Randonneurs 400Km's since 1993. Similar pages are available for all the typical ride lengths.

If Carbonfiberboy can finish a 400Km in <18 hours than he is in the top 25 percent of all US randonneurs, which I think would mean that regardless of how he likes to think of himself, he is "fast" compared to three-quarters of his fellow randonneurs who are standing around at the ride start. He may be slow compared to a RAAM winner, or even an ICBM, but I don't think that's a comparison of very much interest!

As to the OP's query about riding the longer events ... the long rides are the one area in my life where I can usually "get away from it all" and get to be able to just ride my bike without any care in the world except for staying on route and getting to the controls on time. It's like getting to be 12 years old again. So, what do I think about during a 400, 600, 1200? God only knows!

Nick
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Old 03-02-12, 02:34 PM
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skiffrun
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The calm.
The relaxed.
The scenery.
The fact that I an do "it" (and most can't).

I will admit to one side-benefit: If I am in the mood and get dropped by my usual non-rando group, I can catch them, and late in the ride dish out the punishment, saying to myself "this is only a 40, 50, 60, 70, 80 mile ride; no matter how bad you feel, now matter much you trash your legs, you KNOW you can make it back."
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