noglider 

Wouldn't it be cool if your shoes were power meters? Better yet, how about insertable insoles that were power meters, and you could move them from shoes to shoes?

Is this a feasible idea?

adamrice 

Yes.

There was a product in development a while from a company called Brew Brothers that interposed a strain gauge between a Speedplay cleat and shoe. They eventually shut down. And there's a Spanish company called Luck that's been developing a power meter incorporated into the sole of a shoe, but that's been vaporware.

Seattle Forrest

That's how some of the running power meters work.

metalheart44

Not a power meter, but the same concept : https://www.digitsole.com/run-profiler/

zacster

I was wondering that myself and was thinking power meter cleats. In the meantime I ordered power meter pedals instead. There must be too much variability in having them on your moving foot vs. having it fixed to the bike. Your foot can be going in any direction, but the pedal can only spin.

dmanthree

Isn't there a system of pedals and cleats that are power meters?

zacster

The pedals are the meters, the cleats are specific to the pedals. Keo cleats, or a very close equivalent, are used by the current systems. I ordered the Favero Assioma pedals which use standard Keo, and the Powertap and Garmin Vectors use a slightly different cleat, but Keos will work with them. There are other systems out there maybe, but these 3 seem to be equivalent to each other and the most popular.

noglider 

Yes. I have lots of bikes, and most of them have SPD pedals. I prefer SPD. In my fantasy, I wouldn't have to change pedals or shoes.

dmanthree

Gotcha. Oh, well...

I like SPD, but never found a pair of shoes that were light with stiff soles. What shoes do you use?

noglider 

I have a few SPD shoes. I even have sandals. My favorites are made by Specialized, made for mountain bike racing. They're even good for hiking. They're not terribly heavy.

Seattle Forrest

When Garmin was getting ready to release the original Vectors, they said an SPD version was in the works. Now Vector 3 is out, and there's no hint of an SPD version in anything they've said to anyone in years.

By and large power meters are a road (and tri) thing, not an MTB thing.

I used to use SPD pedals on my road bikes, and even had sandals, too. I'd use those to ride to a beach, swim for a while (the shore is rocky and they'd protect my feet), then ride home. I switched for a power meter.

noglider 

I really Really REALLY like SPD. I had the first Look cleats when they came out. I have SPD-SL on my track bike. Regular SPD is for me. I even have running shoes with SPD cleats. I know, it's a dumb idea, but I have them. And there are so many kinds of SPD pedals.

adamrice 

Of course, there are other points where power can be measured. I saw one guy who has a crank-based power meter that he swaps between bikes because he says that's easier than swapping pedals between bikes.

noglider 

He moves cranks from bike to bike?

adamrice 

Yup. Sounds weird to me too.

CliffordK

I could imagine a cleat/sole power meter, although it could be complicated as one undoubtedly applies force at angles that are ineffective at transmitting power to the wheels, and riders with multi-phase strokes might be difficult to capture.

• Push Power Stroke
• Drag across bottom
• Pull up on back side
• Sweep across top.
• Repeat

For this reason, a pedal meter has to have multiple sensors, and likely calibration. A cleat sensor would take a whole lot more calculations,and an insole sensor would likely only be partly effective measuring downward forces, but not other forces, or what part of the stroke the force is applied to the cranks (sensitive gyros?)

I'm surprised that so far there hasn't been a SPD power meter. I'd imagine there are quite a few "casual" riders that are just waiting for one to pop up, while most of the current manufacturers are stepping on top of themselves to come out with 3-bolt pedal meters. Are there any MTB and cyclocross riders that wish to use power? Perhaps the manufacturers don't wish to get their meters dirty.

zacster

Tom, my power meter pedals finally shipped. You'd be welcome to give them a try once the weather gets better, but you'll need Keo shoes. They are easy enough to swap around, but you need something that can read them real-time. An iPhone with the right app probably can if you don't have a Garmin or Wahoo. Let me know if you are interested.

noglider 

Sure, that sounds great. Are Keo the same as SPD-SL? I have a pair of the latter, though they may be too small. Still, I could use them briefly before pain becomes a problem.

I suspect my power output is low, but it's all about strength-to-weight ratio, right? I weigh about 160 lbs.

Seattle Forrest

Power to weight is what matters going up hill. Power to frontal area is what matters on flat ground.

noglider 

Ah yes, of course. Well, I'm pretty good going up hills but not on flats. The average speeds people speak of seem unattainable to me. But I'm happy with how well I did on the Hillier Than Thou ride, which was full of very challenging hills.

superdex

Look Keo are not interchangeable with SPD-SL, fyi...

and a Powermeter plus SPD sandals kinda made me chuckle a little. but hey, why not?

Hypno Toad

The aforementioned vaporware Luck shoes (2016 post): https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2016/09/...eter-shoe.html

Nothing about power meters on their site any more (that I can find): https://luck-bike.es/en/

Seattle Forrest

I agree it's kind of funny. But power meters are useful for more than just structured training. I know a guy who was heavyset and tried to lose weight for years. Finally started coming off of him when he bought a power meter. He knew an HRM wasn't a reliable way to know how many calories you burn on a bike, but didn't have a better way, and the guy bikes a lot.

superdex

Agreed -- it's all about finding what works. For me it's come down to the "duct tape over mouth" diet.

zacster

In my case the HRM confirmed what was already happening, I was losing weight. I bike a lot too but my weight just stayed high, but then I had a good run in September starting with the NYC Century. 100+ miles a week seemed to be the ticket and once I started doing that the weight came off. Then when I put on my HRM and started using my phone with RidewithGPS, it was showing calculated calories too, and the count of the calories divided by 3700 (number of calories to burn a pound of fat), equaled my weight loss. My point here is that it can be accurate.

In any case, my Assioma power meter pedals are on a USPS truck somewhere in Brooklyn, and with these I'll get even more accurate calorie counts, and better training on indoor and outdoor rides.

And no, they are not SPD compatible, just Keo.