mconlonx

I work in a shop in NH, where some customers ask for lower gearing on a road bike with a compact crank. Some for touring, some for the Mt. Washington hill climb, some just because they want lower gearing. For whatever reason, these are usually customers running Ultegra. Used to be an easy answer and relatively cheap mod -- 11-36 mtn cass + 9sp mt derailleur.

Now, Ultegra's gone 11sp.

Anyone experimented with or have ideas of what might work now? xx1/xo1 cass? + what kind of der?

Most would probably be willing to give up an extra gear for lower gearing, so any idea what, if any mtn der might work with Ult 11sp shifters and 10sp cass?

reptilezs

11s shimano is a new pull ratio. i am nut sure if the dynasys mtb RD is the same as the new 11s road or not, doubt it. i have done a bunch of 10spd stuff using the 11-36 cassettes and older 9s mtb RD. xx1 needs a new wheel or freehub too. might be able to do it using all sram force or red22 and the xx1 rd. just throwing out ideas

shelbyfv

You aren't going to use 11 speed shifters with a 10 speed cassette of any description. I wonder if Shimano 11 would shift Shimano 9? I understand Campy 11 will and apparently the two brands 11 ratios have converged.

Leebo

The XX1 cassette has a 42 t low gear. You need the matching rear der. Pull ratio road vs mt? I still think the 10 speed gives you more options.

Chris_W

I agree, I don't see an easy way to get a cassette with a bigger range than the Shimano 11spd 11-32 to work with an 11-speed shifter. You MIGHT be able to stick a loose 34 or 36 tooth cassette cog (get it from a lower-end cassette that has loose cogs) on the back of an 11spd cassette after removing an intermediate cog and playing around to find a spacer that works between the back of the cassette and the loose big cog, but I doubt that the road RD could handle that cog size. Also, make sure that the freehub body is steel or ti and not alu because that big loose cog is going to dig into an alu body very quickly.

It would be easier to step down the gearing on the front. Campag offers a triple crank option with 11-speed setups, and then you can mount anything down to a 24-tooth inner ring. Sticking with Shimano 11-speed means being limited to 2 rings, but then you can take a triple crank and omit the large chainring. I've often run 30-46 and 26-42 setups using only the inner and middle positions of a road triple crank. The only problem there is if you have a braze-on FD that can't be moved low enough; in that case, some SRAM FDs have two mounting holes so that they can be mounted a bit lower than other models.

The weight-weenie version of this is to get a Lightning crank and one of their 94mm BCD spiders, and then you can mount 29-46 chainrings on there.

mconlonx

Bummer. No cheap way out anymore. Doesn't look like there's an Ultegra triple crank anymore, either.

105 triple crank, 12-32 cass, Ult GS rear derailleur. Any idea how new Ult front shifting and 11sp chain will work with 105 10sp crank?

30 x 32 is close enough and even a touch lower gear than the old 34 x 36 fix.

Velo-Orange offers a 46/30 double, and one could get the same configuration with a White industry road crank, but again, both are 10sp.

Hmm...

Wheels Of Steel

See colored text. That Velo-Orange crank, while practical, will clash with many contemporary carbon rigs. The industry is telling customers to work harder or downgrade. A pity, really. Long live the triple! I'm interested to see what we can come up with in this thread as far as a solution as I too work at a shop and feel our customers hands are being forced.

Chris_W

I wouldn't be bothered by using what is officially a 10-speed crank on an 11-speed setup, I'm sure it will work just fine.

surreal

Shimano and SRAM seem to be engineering the demise of the successful drivetrain kludge. It's a sad state of affairs.... the end of an era.

In the Shimano 9speed days, it didn't even feel kludgey... you could just put a mtb RD and cassette on whatever road group you were rockin'. The 10speed days gave us a new lease on life, with the 10speed Shimano road groups working fine with 10speed mtb cassettes but 9speed derailers, as mentioned up-thread and all over the forums elsewhere. But now? Now, Shimano has decided to abandon the touring cyclist, the mad scientist, and the aging Fred. And they sure enough can, b/c there's no other manufacturers out there willing to pick up where they left off....

Wheels Of Steel

That won't accomplish much in the way of lower gearing. Compact cranks are available in both 10 and 11-speed configurations. Are we supposed to start adapting all our Press Fit bottom brackets to square taper in order to install randonneur appropriate gearing (46/30)?

MicroShift and SunXCD.

The industry is abandoning a large segment of its customer base. Only time will tell.

Chris_W

Not at all. Both of the options that I gave to get a super-compact double crank: Using only the inner and middle ring positions of a triple crank or using a Lightning crank with a 94 mm BCD both involve modern integrated axle designs. Triple cranks are still widely available with 24mm integrated axles (Shimano 105 5703 being the current best) or 30mm OS axles (FSA SL-K probably being the best of those, although not as good using the Shimano 5703 with adaptors). The Lightning is even compatible with all of the latest "amazing" standards (it's essentially a BB386 even though it isn't labelled as such, so it fits all BB30, PF30, BB386, BBRight, plus traditional BSA) and is by far the lightest option.

Chris_W

What about Campagnolo introducing Chorus and Athena 3 x 11 groupsets in 2012? Plus, I service a couple of top-end bikes that have otherwise Record or Super Record groupsets but with a triple FD and crank (still using the 11-speed Record/SR left-hand shifter that is officially only made for doubles). I'm a bike mechanic in Switzerland near the Alps working in a high-end bike shop, so I know most of the tricks for getting lower gearing onto fancy bikes.

With the new Cannondale Synapse Hi-Mod endurance road bike, since there is no new Ultegra triple group, they offer a stock build with the Campag Athena 3x11 group. We sold two of these in the first two months of them being released, and have had several other people looking closely at the one that we have on display. Triples are not dead here yet.

Unfortunately, I recently heard a rumor than when Shimano 105 goes to 11-speed for 2015, there will be no triple crank version, which would be very sad. The 5703 and 6603/4 cranks may remain the best triple cranks ever made (because I don't like the special chainrings on the slightly lighter 7803 and 6703).