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A circa 1954 Carlton Super Python

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A circa 1954 Carlton Super Python

Old 09-12-20, 08:36 AM
  #26  
Kilroy1988 
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Originally Posted by eeuuugh
I see these 4mm barrel adjusters on Simplex downtube shifters up through early 70s models at least, and they've always confused me. Would the shift cable have been fully housed originally?

Gorgeous bike, can't wait to see it finished!
A lot of these come with full-length shift cables that were taken off the previous bikes they had been mounted on, as this one actually did, and that's precisely what the barrel adjuster was for. However, with the British frames these were popularly mounted on the setup could go either way depending on how the frame builder prepared the mounts. On this Super Python frame, with the little cable guide atop the bottom bracket, it will be a straight shot for an exposed cable all the way from the shifter back to the chain-stay mount just before the derailleur.

It'll work fine that way, but of course that adjuster won't be useful.

-Gregory
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Old 09-17-20, 12:43 PM
  #27  
Charles Wahl
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Gregory, if you have the time and inclination, and appropriate measuring instruments: would please you tell me what the pitch and diameter of the friction screw holding that Simplex shifter are? And whether it's the same thread diameter and pitch as the cable adjustment gizmo shown beneath the shifter? Not that I can afford to buy either the Simplex or a Cyclo shifter just for the friction/fixing screw, but just so I know.

BTW, super frame, and I love the headset -- never seen one like that.

Thanks,
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Charles

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Old 09-17-20, 01:06 PM
  #28  
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Charles Wahl, I'm afraid I only have a micrometer that I can make a very close estimate on the major diameter and pitch for the screws, but even more problematic is that I just disassembled the frame and put it all in storage on my parents' property again until I can get back to it during the winter. I should be able to check it out for you Sunday evening if time allows.

-Gregory
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Old 09-17-20, 01:45 PM
  #29  
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Very nice! Since I am in line to get a 1960s Carlton, I am taking a special interest in your progress.
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Old 09-17-20, 02:01 PM
  #30  
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Lovely progress on a charming bicycle!
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Old 09-17-20, 04:41 PM
  #31  
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Beautiful Bike. Inspirational project.
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Old 09-17-20, 06:10 PM
  #32  
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I wondered where this thread had gone. Bookmarking it. Love the frame, and the build choices are superb. Very fitting choices.

-Kurt
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Old 11-13-20, 01:26 PM
  #33  
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Well, besides a grand amount of refurbishment for components that have already been collected and shown off above, I just snagged the last critical parts and they happen to be the only arguably "special" bits besides the frame itself. It'll take a while for them to arrive from across the pond, so here's one of the photos from the auction...

A pair of Conloy Constrictor "BOA" pedals with adjustable cages, which date soundly to the era of the Super Python. These were Conloy's most expensive pedals and obviously very suitable for this particular build!

-Gregory


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Old 11-14-20, 07:10 AM
  #34  
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I am definitely enjoying this thread. We ride similar size bikes and have similar taste so I live vicariously through your builds. My youngest is in college right now so watching builds is in my best interest. Perhaps I can actually make one of these happen in four years. LOL
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Old 11-14-20, 08:49 AM
  #35  
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Great to see progress on this fine build.
Now you're pretty much roped into finding a pair of Constrictor "Python" tires!
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Old 11-14-20, 10:39 AM
  #36  
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Kilroy,

The geometry of that bike is VERY similar to my 1952 Rudge Aero Special. Was Carlton transferred into Raleigh at that time? My Rudge was made by Raleigh at Nottingham, and looks nearly identical except for a frame mounted DT shift cable guide pulley at the BB, versus a seat-lug mounted pulley for a Sturmey Archer gearhub shift cable.



1952 Rudge Aero Special



Same Rudge, drive side
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Old 11-14-20, 10:44 AM
  #37  
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Thems some awesome pedals. Top notch!
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Old 11-14-20, 11:19 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
Kilroy,

The geometry of that bike is VERY similar to my 1952 Rudge Aero Special. Was Carlton transferred into Raleigh at that time? My Rudge was made by Raleigh at Nottingham, and looks nearly identical except for a frame mounted DT shift cable guide pulley at the BB, versus a seat-lug mounted pulley for a Sturmey Archer gearhub shift cable.
Nope! By the early 1950s Raleigh was just trying to keep up with the pack and updating their frames to match the geometry and style of the best in town. Really only the Raleigh RRA Moderne was comparable in quality of materials and finish to the typical custom frames built by boutiques such as Carlton, with fully butted 531 tubing throughout and all of the little bits of feathering of the lugs, etc. The Super Lenton and Rudge Aero Special were at the top of the "mass-production" heap and cost about £21 complete according to the 1955 advertisements, while a nicely equipped Carlton Super Python cost nearly £32. And as Carltons went the Super Python was a couple wrungs down the ladder from the Flyer, International, and even Franco-Italia model, which cost £39 fully-equipped! Just the frame sets for the Flyers and their ilk cost as much as the sporty Raleigh models.

The merger between the two under TI Industries and Carlton's takeover of Raleigh's lightweight division did not occur until the early 1960s. Carlton maintained their own line of bikes until around 1967, when Raleigh dropped its old line of lightweights (like the Gran Sport) and really simply took a bunch of Carlton's current models and re-badged them, then finally dissected Carlton's lineup to match perfectly with Raleigh's export models by the early-1970s. (EDIT: This is a simplified version of a rather complicated series of events if you actually follow all of the model lines and company organization).

The Rudge, Raleigh and Humber lightweights of the early 1950s were all similar in their essentials and built in Raleigh's Nottingham factory. For a lot more great information about the history of your particular bike's heritage read through Peter Kohler's great articles on the Raleigh Lentons and their Rudge and Humber cousins...

https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/20...1948-1960.html

And this one is applicable specifically to your Aero Special:

https://on-the-drops.blogspot.com/20...erne-1952.html

-Gregory

Last edited by Kilroy1988; 11-14-20 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 11-23-20, 05:59 PM
  #39  
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T'was a good day for finding and receiving packages containing items related to my Super Python! The pedals are beautiful, and I also got in a wonderfully preserved copy of 23rd edition of the Cycling Manual by Cycling magazine, which happens to date to 1954!

And earlier this morning I won another auction for a rare Bluemels celluloid spearpoint front fender, which were a racy looking product and commonly associated with time trialing. Fun stuff!

-Gregory


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Old 12-05-20, 06:28 PM
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That's a gorgeous old frame! Can you tell me what diameter the seat post is?
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Old 12-05-20, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Hudson308
That's a gorgeous old frame! Can you tell me what diameter the seat post is?
Thank you! It being standard sized butted Reynolds 531, the spec is 27.2. However, there's either something built up just inside or the collar has been squeezed a bit, so I had trouble fitting one in and bought a 27.0 which slides in snugly. However, doing it right is important so I'll probably figure out what the issue is, correct it, and get a 27.2 Birmalux post or the like. Cheers!

-Gregory
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Old 01-02-21, 10:06 AM
  #42  
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Got some white cotton bar tape, plain white cable housing, and Gripfast wingnuts all around for the wheels, plus one final accessory to rule them all... A Coloral double bottle cage that I paid too much for but will surely keep for a long while!

Now after I finish building up my Mercian Campionissimo it will be time to do touch up work on the black paint on the Super Python then take the time to build it as well, probably sometime during the spring. All of the parts are assembled.

Hope everyone is having a good new year's weekend, 'n cheers!

-Gregory

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Old 01-02-21, 01:03 PM
  #43  
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Nice. As a coincidence, I looked at completed auctions for Coloral just the other day. Don't know why, I haven't been in the market for one in a decade. They went up in price, damn, they went up in price. Enjoy your Ramon for the next month or two. Totally worth it.
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Old 01-02-21, 02:52 PM
  #44  
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Kilroy1988, that Coloral double bottle cage is the absolute perfect thing for the build. I’m looking for one for my 1960 Franco Suisse. I’d love to see a photo of the bidons you’re using if you have them picked out already.

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Old 01-02-21, 06:33 PM
  #45  
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iab This one still shows the initial asking price if you just check the completed auctions I think, but I made an offer for $50 less that was accepted... So I can still afford the soy sauce.

Pcampeau For now I'll use two of those reproduction alloy bidons with the L'eroica label, but will be on the lookout for original Coloral examples!

-Gregory
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Old 01-03-21, 04:45 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Pcampeau
Kilroy1988, that Coloral double bottle cage is the absolute perfect thing for the build. I’m looking for one for my 1960 Franco Suisse. I’d love to see a photo of the bidons you’re using if you have them picked out already.
while you are waiting, you can use this as a placeholder, and get a pair of bottles

Gregory, I am enjoying following your project.
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Old 01-03-21, 12:52 PM
  #47  
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As reported elsewhere, I did get my Carlton, a blue 1962 Franco Suisse, which looks to be basically an update of your [Monty] Python. It will be fun to work in parallel.
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Capo: 1959 Modell Campagnolo, S/N 40324; 1960 Sieger (2), S/N 42624, 42597
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Peugeot: 1970 UO-8, S/N 0010468
Bianchi: 1982 Campione d'Italia, S/N 1.M9914
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Old 01-04-21, 02:45 PM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
Just eBay UK. I pay quite a lot for shipping... Hilary Stone also keeps an excellent pile of frames around at any given time but stuff larger than 23"/58cm is hard to come by. This frame is 24.5"/62cm with a low BB, so the head tube is only eight inches tall.

It's when I find ones like this that I have to pay the Piper!
I lucked into a similar nearly complete bike, a '52 Rudge Aero Special in 55 cm/21.5" seat tube c-c. Seat tube is 70 degrees, headtube in 73 degrees, and the curve of the fork looks similarly graceful and deep. Mine is a clone of the Raleigh Super Lenton, made at Nottingham on the same production lines. The only mechanical differences to the Raleigh are chainring, headbadge, and fork crown, and of course the paint/livery, a "software" change. My tubing is full 531, but straight gauge. Raleigh was still in the mode of standardizing Sturmey-Archer hubs so mine has a braze on for the gear cable pulley, and no braze-ons for DT shifters.



Right after I bought it. Front mudguard missing, I added the old Selle Anatomica, and some Specialized 27x1 ¼ tires.

Headbadge is a winner!

Frame figuring is mostly intact.

Main ravages of rust: seat cluster, seatstay, chainstay at BB. I'd like to touch up the top tube and the chainstays, so I would need a color match and a "Made in England" decal.
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Old 01-04-21, 03:17 PM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by Road Fan
I lucked into a similar nearly complete bike, a '52 Rudge Aero Special in 55 cm/21.5" seat tube c-c...
Indeed, as you already posted photos and a description of it in this very same thread about my Super Python... Perhaps you'd like to make another thread about your bike?

-Gregory
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Old 01-05-21, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Kilroy1988
Indeed, as you already posted photos and a description of it in this very same thread about my Super Python... Perhaps you'd like to make another thread about your bike?

-Gregory
I have done that. I was hoping you might want to measure your geometry so I can see if they are similar. I've posted must of my info. I'm surprised at how similar they look.

What exactly are you asking me to do? We don't own the threads we start, as far as I can tell.

Last edited by Road Fan; 01-05-21 at 04:42 PM.
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