robertj298 

canklecat brought up an interesting subject on my post about KMC chains. According to his experience some of their
chains could be a bit fiddly do to their shape on friction shifting bikes.His opinion was
that some of the cheaper chains with flat plates and plain rivets shifted better on friction
shifters. Anyone else found this to be true?

canklecat

I should have mentioned that was my experience only with my '89 Centurion Ironman with Suntour GPX group and Accushift downtube shifters when I attempted to use them in friction mode. Not a great feeling shifter in friction mode, but very good in index mode. It was difficult to fine tune the shifter position and it tended to creep and ghost shift under pressure, such as standing to sprint or climb. If I cranked down the tension enough to reduce creep, it was difficult to shift.

The KMC Z-72 chain clattered a bit, like it was wanting to shift. I'd tweak the shifter slightly but it never stayed put satisfactorily. The narrower plain sided chains (like the cheaper Z-50, Z-51) seemed to minimize clatter.

I should repeat that experiment with a set of good Shimano L-422 Light Action shifters I got a few months ago, and see if the same KMC Z-72 chain behaves.

robertj298 

I should mention I had the same experience with my 87 Ironman. While it wasn't as loud as my 89 changing to the Z-72 chain and sunrace freewheel improved the shifting on it also

The Golden Boy 

You bring up an interesting point.

Yes I know shifting gears is a combination of all the parts in a system. It only makes sense that the chain and freewheel are a part of that. With all the swapping around I've done, especially with rear derailleurs- I had nice running setups and swapped RDs in- so the only thing changing was the RD. So in my head- if something's not shifting right- it's the RD.

sd5782 

Kinda wondering the same too as I may soon buy a new chain for my 89 miyata 1000LT. Chain seems okay and gauge says okay, but it is probably original. Freehub 7 speed hyperglide on this, so the gears have ramps which I would think might be chain finicky. I think the original chain is perhaps 7.3mm, so I wondered about newer 8 speed chains that are perhaps 6.8mm. Right now it shifts just fine but just wondering, as I may change things area bit.

robertj298 

I just put a new KMC Z8.1 on my 1984 Team Fuji and I'm having the same problem Canklecat talked about. It seems
to skip gears a lot and you have to trim a lot.I'm thinking maybe the new styled beveled chains don't work as well
on the older freewheels? My 84 Lotus shifts much better using the older style chain. A lot smoother and hardly ever
have to trim.

John E

I agree that the freewheel tooth profile and chain side plate shape are suspects here. I have a stash of older NOS "8-speed" chains that I dip into whenever one of my chains has elongated by Sheldon's magic 0.5 percent (1/16" per 24 half-links).

sd5782 

Interesting that you say .5%. My chain checker has .75 on one end and 1 on other end. Maybe Sheldon recommends earlier chain replacement. Chains are cheaper than sprockets, so maybe is better in the long run.

tkamd73 

All my bikes are friction shift, and all have KMC Z series chains, Z7, Z8, and Z33, I like that you can find them in silver. They all shift great, has to do more with your freewheel, cassette, chainrings, and derailleurs, then the chain itself, good chain line helps too. Eventually I’ll go to the Xs, when the Zs are gone, pretty happy with KMC.
Tim

dddd

The really old chains that have inner-link bushings tying the left and right plates together are much stiffer laterally, so shift better where an old-fashioned derailer may not be maintaining a tight gap between the upper pulley and the smaller freewheel cogs.

The newer, bushingless chains having flat sideplates and some degree of pin protrusion have their own advantage in always making a continuous clatter before actually going from engaging one cog to another. So these chains are less likely to ghost-shift on Hyperglide cogs when the pulley isn't perfectly centered under the particular cog that the chain is running on. Ghost-shifting was less of a problem with old-fashioned sprockets and chains because the cogs lacked shifting "gates" and because the chains weren't as aggressive about grabbing the teeth on an adjacent larger cog.

Also I have experienced chain-skating problems when using modern chain on old-fashioned French freewheels (such as the Helicomatic and others, where less-modern Sedisport chain actually engages the teeth more reliably).

Other than these "exceptions", I generally much prefer modern chain for it's quieter running using scant lubrication, and for it's better shifting and lighter weight.

canklecat

Cog shape is probably a factor. I switched from Suntour to SunRace freewheels because the SunRace MFR-30 and MFM-30 are better for index shifting with my Suntour and Shimano indexed groups.

But the relatively plain cogs of the Suntour Alpha might work fine with friction shifting. I'll try them again eventually when I set up a bike with a proper friction shifting setup.

70sSanO

OT, but I really like Shimano L-422 shifters. If you remove the ratchet they are like poor man’s retrofriction shifters.

Joh

robertj298 

The problem is that I'm an idiot. I hate to admit it but I broke the chain 2 links short instead of 2 links longer. I repeat I'k an idiot.