Mad Honk 

I have a young man who has broken the seat tube near the bottom bracket on an older Miyata. He has asked me about repairing it, and had some ideas none of which I endorse. He has once again asked me to find him a frame builder who would replace what I believe is Ishiwata tubing for a seat tube. I have told him it would be way more expensive than the frame is worth (even finding a replacement frame for him).
So I am reaching out this group to see if it is a job anyone wants to take on, so I might pass along the information to him.
Personally, I am past repairing a bent frame, or other defect, due to my own experience. Repaired a bent frame and replace steerer tube, on my own bike. And during a 35 mph descent it took me for a ride into the cornfields when it twisted unexpectedly at speed. I won't deal with anything bent, or broken unless it is a straight up replacement only. Not ranting here just posting this young fellas's plight, as I am unwilling to take this job on. PM me and I will send him your info if interested. Thanks in advance, MH

Andrew R Stewart 

I agree that the cost of repair will be likely greater then the used value of the complete bike. Unless there is some compelling reason not mentioned (dead Dad's bike who road it cross country and met Mom along the way...) I also would pass on it.Andy

CliffordK

If the damage is mid-tube, I've wondered if it would be possible to cut a short internal sleeve and shove it down into the tube and braze in place.

If the damage is right on the bottom bracket, perhaps even going through the bottom bracket, that type of repair might not be possible/practical.

If cracked right on/through the bottom bracket, I am seeing notes of fillet brazing.

Nonetheless, @Andrew R Stewart; is probably correct about overall cost/value.

Mad Honk 

Cliff,
The break was about 3 cm above the bottom bracket braze joint. My advice was that heating there would compromise the other joints around it and maybe create another failure. I won't take it on on any circumstances even with my $1m liability policy. Too much can go wrong with this repair in my mind. Smiles, MH

Andrew R Stewart 

That's an odd location for a crack. More typical is closer to the lug's edge or higher up where the ft der clamps on. This suggests, to me, a well cooked tube during construction. While I have far less concern about the patch affecting close by joints I do have concerns about what else might have been over cooked and pending... Since these bikes often used "auto" heaters and would braze the entire BB in one step there's a good chance any overheating could be present in the DT or CSs.

BTW is your liability policy a personal one or a commercial one? If it's a personal "umbrella" type I'll bet it won't cover repairing another's bike. I have one and it won't cover commercial actions, and as we old guys know a "sale" doesn't have to involve money. Simple handing over an item to another can constitute a transaction. Andy (who learned this back in high school when getting stoned with friends was popular)

Nessism

In terms of the repair, if it's truly only the seat tube that broke and the BB shell is still sound the repair shouldn't be overly difficult. Cut off the tube a little above the BB shell and grind out the old tube using rotary tools. Same thing for the seat tube as it passes though the seat tube lug at the top. Then slide a new seat tube in place, trim to fit, and silver braze in place. Reason for silver is because that frame most likely was brass brazed originally and silver is lower temperature so the new brazing shouldn't disturb the older adjacent joints. At least that's the way I see it in my head...

Andrew R Stewart 

Easier said then done. It's real easy to over grind the sockets and loose the gaps needed for silver. Also I have repaired a few frames where I found more issues then the crack. These repairs can mushroom into a grander involvement real quickly. If the customer isn't well informed they might not agree to the added time/efforts after the fact. When people come to me with statements like (just do this, all you have to do...) my red flag goes up. I know they aren't expecting what the job can grow into and I'm too old for confrontational communications. Andy

Mad Honk 

Andy,
I have two policies. One personal and one for my business. You are correct my personal policy only covers myself and the couple of real estate properties I still own. When I owned a few it was best for me to cover my backside against tenants who were lawsuit happy. As you know by now, I live in a college town, and that kind of stuff goes on non-stop in our court system.
The business policy is again a $1m to cover most anything. I am a golf equipment professional and I am like anyone who has done extensive manufacturing processes understand that sooner or later something will fail. If heaven forbid one of my golf clubs would fail and hit someone in the cranium I'm not sure if $1m would even cover the damage. Within that is also a professional liability coverage in case I give some one advice that would have them do something stoopid and hurt themselves. And so on... I spent a lot of research on what I need to do to protect myself, and the policies are the best option, but good judgement on my part needs to be a part of the protection. Just saying no to this young fellow was my way of being self protective.
Being and older guy I have some of that golden wisdom that younger folks don't, and it is sometimes hard to break through that idealism.
I trust this answers your q's, Smiles, MH

BTW, When did getting stoned with friends go out of fashion? Har!

Mad Honk 

Nessism,
Are you volunteering for this job? If so, I will send your contact info along to this young fellow. Smiles, MH

Andrew R Stewart 

Mad Honk- I am glad you have both sides of your life covered. Many don't. I won't do most repairs out of the LBS I work for because of what you say. I do have a very few exceptions that I can count on one and a half hands. The, nearly $1800, commercial policy I would want, to hang out my shingle is just too much at this point of my life, for the amount I'd want to do this stuff. I've done too much of this stuff for too many years to want to work hard enough to justify that cost.

Your comment about college and sue happy tenants reminds me of a story. When I lived in Cleveland and had a shop in Cl Heights a mile form CASE Western U it was well known that first year law students would have a hard time finding an apartment. It seems that with their new legal awareness they tended to push the limits of leases and landlords would want to avoid this. After a couple of years those students were far more easy going

Thanks for your openness and sharing of life's stuff. Andy

Mad Honk 

Andy,
As always this thread has diverged from the original content, but is relevant to both of us. I do know of the perils of not being covered for any problem, back in the 1980's I has a young woman take a bike for a test ride and her purse got caught up in the front wheel, creating a crash and ten stitches in her forehead. I have never forgotten that experience. Stoopid simple but, one that we never see coming. Insurance is only part of what we need, good discretion is the other part. Sometimes saying no is a good thing. Smiles, MH


BTW Only 300 riders for the Hilly this Saturday, due to rain and cold. Sunday was bit more pleasant but not more than 500 riders, MH