FrenchieFan

Hi everybody,

I recently bought a used 1985 Peugeot PH 501, and the brakes are crap. The cables are routed under the handlebar tape and the increased friction is terrible and probably unsafe. The cables themselves make a horrifying gritty-crunchy sound as they tighten.

I'd like to switch to having the cables stick out from the levers and loop down toward the calipers, but I'm not sure if my levers can handle that kind of cable arrangement. (I also don't know the correct terminology for what I'm trying to accomplish here!) A side-goal is to improve the "vintage" aesthetic of the bike by putting the cables back outside the bar tape.

Can anybody tell me from the attached photos if I can do this? Perhaps the little hole in the front? Or am I looking at getting a new set of brake levers? Because the bike is 95%-original right now, I'd like to find levers that, if not vintage themselves, are very similar in style.

Many thanks!


(Bonus: Cat)

Narhay

Hello. You have what are called "aero brake levers". The levers that have the cable housing coming out of the top and looping back down are called non-aero.

Yours are not looking to be compatible with non aero. The best thing you can do for your current levers would be to replace the cable and the cable housing. Get some nice new stainless brake cables and Teflon lined housing and make sure there aren't any metal burrs on the ends when you cut them. Also a drop of lube at the brake pivot points can also make your current brakes (assuming they are clean, properly adjusted and rust has been removed) much smoother.

Looks like you are also missing the rubber hoods for your brakes. The feel on your hands will be improved if you can find a set that fit.

John E

You have aero brake handles, which actually provide 10% greater leverage than old school non-aero handles. I would replace the brake cables and housings. Retain the under-the-tape routing, but make all curves as gentle as you can.

eschlwc

i can appreciate the op's "side-goal to improve the vintage aesthetic" with non-aero levers. here's the catalog page:



just know, by '85, makers were beginning to use aero levers on their high-end bikes. around '84, tdf riders were using aero levers. and by '85, most probably were using aero. so, with an '85 bike, aero levers certainly don't look out of place.

either way, just replace the cable and housing. shop on ebay for the least expensive prices on stainless cables and colored/lined housing.

the one thing i really don't like about his setup is the cable entry for the caliper is on the left side. so if you go with a replacement non-aero lever, you can't cross the stem with the cable. go ahead and take the cable over the bar, but stay on the left side of the stem.

non-aero levers can usually be had real cheap ($7) if you have a co-op nearby or lbs that specializes in vintage bikes. you might also think about buying some lever hoods when you replace the cables.

davester

Just to be clear, the quality of brake operation has nothing to do with whether the cables run under or over the tape. Also, since you are apparently running with completely worn out cable housings, how old are the brake pads? Old hardened brake pads are a major cause of horrible braking performance. Get yourself some new Kool Stop salmon pads.

Amesja

New cables, housing, and pads will make the brakes better than new. Aero brakes brought in a new era of better leverage and braking. You'll need to remove the tape & re-wrap the bars too to get to the housings. When you route the new housing strap it TIGHTLY to the bar and it's best to do this with the brakes hooked up so that you can put tension on the housings first. Take some string and tape back the levers so you can work on taping the housing down. Start at the lever and lay the tensioned housing against the bar and wrap it with a stripe of regular old masking tape. It's the best I've found for this application. Then move a couple of inches back and hit it again with another loop. Make 4-5 loops all the way to where the bar tape is going to end. Now you have the housing laying flat against the bars in the proper shape that it should be in UNDER TENSION so you won't have any wasted moving around of the housing under the tape. After doing both sides like this you can then lay the new bar tape over it. leave the masking tape right there, it'll hold the housing much tighter than the bar tape ever could.

There are many tutorials on wrapping bar tape so i won't go into that.

If you use this method of securing the housing under the bar tape you will get greatly improved crisp braking without any wasted movement of the housing under the bar tape. Properly fastened under-tape housing is superior to old-school non-aero brake routing. The cable is held tightly and won't walk around under load nearly as much. this too helps for better braking. There is a reason why top riders left behind the old ways. Sometimes the new ways are just better.

Edited to add: Use good quality lined cable housing such as Jagwire or other high-quality housing & Stainless Steel slick cable, with good metal ferules on the ends. Cut the housing carefully with a dremil tool or high quality cable cutter and then grind the ends very flat so there is no coil sticking out to make the brakes feel spongy.

FrenchieFan

Thank you everybody for the advice. I think I'll keep the levers and just replace the cables. The part that keeps me a little nervous, though, is cutting the housings. I do NOT have a Dremel or a grinder of any kind. Perhaps I should head to my local DIY bike kitchen? Any other ideas on cutting the cable/housing?

For future reference, any idea on what brand these levers are, based on that barely recognizable logo? It may help with finding some rubber hoods to slip over the top.

THANK YOU, one and all.

icepick_trotsky 

The bike kitchen is a good idea. If you want to buy tools, just make sure you get cable cutters, not wire cutters. This will give you clean ends. Plenty of videos on Youtube to help with this.

photogravity

Pretty cat. Do you have more/better pictures?

Amesja

You really need a Dremel or a generic equivalent. Everyone should own one, and an extra set of rotary accessories for them. You can buy them at Harbor Freight for about $10 although I really suggest anyone buying one spend a little extra for one with variable speed. Big-box stores like Home Despot have them too. The Dremel brand is just a name, I have both a cheap one and a higher-end Dremel with all the attachements and the variable speed. The name brand isn't that big of a deal IMHO. It's not a rocket or a jet engine.

Always remember to wear eye protection when using a Dremel tool, especially when cutting with those cheaper cutting discs. They will disintegrate and explode quite often and you could put an eye out very easily.

What I do is I cut with a nice cutter but you could use a cheaper one and then cut again with the Dremel a half inch back to get a good cut. It's very hard to cut housing straight with a Dremel on a running housing since the housing is in your way as you hold the tool. If you cut it off first you can cut straight again on the short end. Just measure a half inch long when you make your first cut. Then use the sanding drums to clean up the ends to get them nice and flat. Nothing else you can do will net as much improvement in braking feel like dressing the ends of the cables up. Even with a very expensive bike-specific cutter you still need to dress the ends of the cable up like in that link I posted above.

jimmuller 

Modern housings from manufacturers such as Jagwire are incredibly hard to cut. The cables aren't so easy to cut either. I recommend using the Park Tool cable cutter then facing the cut end of the housing with a file if the cutter puts a burr on it. The cable cutter is nice to have if you ever do more bikes.

As for getting hoods, I have several bikes without hoods and I honestly don't feel much difference whether I have them or not. I do wear padded bike gloves so maybe that makes the hoods unnecessary. I also like the look of plain silver levers or the gray Campy Gran Sport levers.

Amesja

I have the Pedro's cutter and like it, although I do sometimes wish it had the ferrule crimper like the Park Tool CN-10 does. I prefer to deal with a company that doesn't put offensive (to me) bible verses in their catalog so I buy everything I can non-Park these days if at all possible. The crimper isn't all that important though, it's not like it is going to save my soul or anything.

One thing to remember about cable cutters (and any high-quality bypass-blade cutting tool) is that they can be very easily damaged if used incorrectly, unlike knife and anvil cutters which are very durable. Not only can these bypass blades be damaged by cutting the wrong things with it (I once saw someone here say they used their bicycle cable/housing cutter to cut off the ends of fender stays!) but if you don't hold the work firmly square when cutting it it can twist in the blade, and bind causing the bypass blades to be forced apart and spread them a very tiny bit apart. On a tight-tolerance tool like a bypass-blade cutter it doesn't take much to significantly ruin the effectiveness of the cutter. The same is true for a really good pair of tin-snips. I'm a tradesman and one tool I'll never lend out to anyone is a pair of tin snips. One ham-handed use where the tool twists in the hand can ruin a pair of tin snips forever. They will never cut the same after that. The same goes for cable cutters.

So make sure to hold the housing or cable at a 90-degree perpendicular to the cutting blades and don't let it twist when cutting in such a way that it can cause the blades to be torqued apart and they will never cut as nicely again. I hear a lot of folks say that such and such cutter is crap or that their cutters wear out. The cutting blades on cable cutters are quite a bit harder than the material used in brake housings and bike cables. They should not dull much even after many cuttings if used correctly and on the right material. But if you let them twist when cutting, or use them on the wrong material, then cutting will deteriorate very quickly (or even instantly.) Protect your investment, use your tools properly with correct technique. As someone who teaches apprentices in a skilled trade this is something I try to impart into every apprentice that has worked with me. But in the bike industry I rarely run into this type of tool knowledge being passed down from master to learner. Perhaps that is the difference between a a $35/hour trade and a $15/hour one.

eschlwc

my park tool ($22 at my lbs) will clean up a cut that's not perfectly even. i don't need a rotary to do that.

i use a heavy sewing needle to open the housing if the tool accidentally closes the end.

glad i didn't know that about the bible verses before i bought my eight park tools. though, i haven't much of a problem with ecclesiastes, since nothing really matters and all is in vain.

3speedslow

Your levers look to be a variation of the gran compe aero made by Dia-Compe. Hoods can still be bought on line.

Amesja

A time to cut & a time to sew...

eschlwc

^ now that's funny.

FrenchieFan

Hi everybody. Thank you again so much for all the advice. It sounds like, when it comes to cutting the housing, I'm just going to head to my Bike Kitchen and use their stuff. I'm an apartment dweller and don't need to start building an enormous amount of tools for highly specific functions. I just don't have the space and I get yelled at enough as it is for bringing in new things! (The bike stand was a huge effort.)

So I'm having some seriously frustrating issues with trying to find the right pairing of housing and cable to replace the old stuff. I have dropped by my LBSs to see what they have in stock, which is basically "nothing" when it comes to Jagwire.

So I'm not sure what kind of housing and cable to actually buy. I found this on Amazon, but I don't need a derailleur cable kit, so that's a waste of money. I later found this on Amazon as well, which is just the housing, but I'm not sure what kind it is and what size cable I need to put through it (also, it is not compressionless). Furthermore, I don't know what kind of cable to buy, period. I looked for stainless steel cables without really any luck. I see Shimano this and SRAM that, 1.6 mm here and 3 mm there and -- honestly -- no freaking idea whatsoever what should go with what.

Additional complication, here is a photo of the cable's connection to my ancient Weinmann brakes:



Is this going to be an issue when trying to get this stuff done?

I liked it more back when all I was worrying about was how to cut the housing.

Thank you all, again, for the help. This is proving, oddly, to be the most difficult repair I've done. I found it easier to repack a cup and cone hub with 13 little bearings than it is to find the right friggin' brake cable & housing.

Velocivixen

There is galvanized, stainless steel & Teflon lined cables. I usually get stainless but doesn't really matter. Just get any kind of housing. I usually buy Jagwire Basics cable/housing kits for about $6.00 from Universal Cycles. Don't sweat it. You're doing great.

jimmuller 

Like VV says, just go to your LBS and ask for Jagwire. Their housing is Teflon-lined and their cables are stainless steel. If you are rigging an index shifter you'll want their specific derailleur housing, but it is really stiff. For brakes and friction shifting, use their brake housing. The LBS will probably give you a handful of ferrules for the housing ends, and caps to squeeze onto the cable ends. If you're going to do this at your local co-op. they probably have all that stuff too.

Narhay

Brake housing is usually 5mm. The dérailleur housing is usually 4mm. I use a wire cutter (gasp!) when cutting housings and it has been just fine. Lined housing is the best.

dddd

These levers look like Dia Compe aero levers, which in their most-common, earlier incarnations have spherical-tipped ferrules inside.

This design, these ferrules, are hugely problematic.

Firstly, they allow the housing to settle in at an angle to the cable end that the lever pulls on. This invariably bends the cable sharply, since the lined housing doesn't want to bend at all!
Result is that the cable comes into direct, forceful contact with the small hole in the alloy ferrule, creating a huge amount of friction!
Eventually, after years, there will be a slot where the hole in the ferrule used to be, and finally, if one is lucky, the cable will then be sliding only on the housing liner, around the time that the cabling is by this time likely due for replacement.

I always follow Amesja's procedure of keeping the cabling tensioned as the cable is routed and taped along the bar. Yet still, the early version of these levers causes tremendous friction even after fresh, clean, well-lubricated new housing has been carefully installed. What utter frustration in all the wasted effort.

Later versions of these levers feature a fixed-position ferrule that causes the cable housing to bend sharply instead of the ferrule leaning over.
Though not ideal, it was a huge improvement, often lasting years before the cable wore through the housing liner.
Only other problem was that if the cable housing wasn't fed fully into the ferrule, or became dislodged during cable fitment and tensioning, then the housing again would tilt over and cause the same sort of problem that plagued version A.

Compare all this to Shimano's entry-level, 1980's Exage aero brake levers, which provide a far more-comfortable grip with a wider, ergonomically-shaped lever body. And with the cable housing port positioned so as not to need any ferrule at all, and without any sort of friction issues or assembly challenges.

As for the cable and housing, any good bike shop should sell lined brake housing (in basic black), by the foot, and should be able to supply proper cables for road levers. I never buy cable "kits" other than the cheapo "Bell" brand kits that contain four good cables and throw-away unlined housings.
Only Campagnolo levers need special cables, which of course cost more for unexplained reasons beyond that the vendor/supplier charges the shop more for them.

And as for riding with levers lacking rubber hoods, I quit this economizing practice along with other things like riding with vintage bike chain or riding without clipless pedals. Life's too short!

There are decent, modern, rubber-hooded levers (both aero and non-aero) that can be found online for $20 or so, so why waste money putting new hoods on lousy levers?

Aren't I opinionated this evening(?).

eschlwc

on ebay, i buy ...

- lined brake cable housing in basic colors ($1/ft).
- stainless road brake cable (2/$5). usually, one end is mtn, and one is road.
- stainless (shimano type) shifter cable (2/$2.50).

i still go to my lbs for random things though (seatpost bolts, grease, chain lube, axles, tubes, etc. etc.).