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Invasion of the E-bikes!

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

Invasion of the E-bikes!

Old 10-08-19, 10:29 AM
  #51  
RJM
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
People get really upset if you call them motor vehicles. That's exactly what they are, wheeled vehicles powered by a motor.
More like a hybrid. Powered by legs and a motor.

I always thought it would be funny to stick an ebike onto a smart trainer and ride some zwift ride. What's the point, you ask? I don't know...kinda like using cheat codes on Grand Theft Auto.

Last edited by RJM; 10-08-19 at 10:36 AM.
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Old 10-08-19, 11:26 AM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by eduskator
E-Bike or bike, who cares? As long as you ride one!

The more cyclists there are, the more respect we'll get from other users of the road (such as car drivers...). They (we) tend to become a lot more respectful towards cyclists once they (we) jump on a bike and start riding it next to cars.

Love for our sport!
I agree that the more people get on bikes, whether it's power assisted or not, the better it is for all of us. Then perhaps we will be less marginalized.
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Old 10-08-19, 11:44 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Meh, as for groups I say it's up to the group to say yes or no. It's wonderful folks can hang with their spouse or friend for companionship.

I think it's cool folks can stay active in a C or B group ride as they age or fight off an injury or try to manage a disability.

But there's zero place for one of these things on an A-group ride or above unless they're literally a replacement for a team car or SAG wagon.

Once you're above the B-group level, an e-bike would be all about the ego of being in the faster group.

If someone gets lazy and puts on 20 pounds over winter and starts getting dropped by the A-group are they supposed to run out and buy an e-bike because they can't hang with their buds on the group ride any longer?

No. Drop back to the B's. Have a coffee/beer after the ride with the entire group.

With the mainstream bike industry, who's going to stare the gift horse in the mouth? You've got a public demanding hidden motors on road bikes that look like a normal road bike and have crazy power and speed enhancements. Who would be dumb enough to NOT make and sell them at a handsome profit?

But, to me, there's something about the stealth road race e-bike that rubs me the wrong way. There's a fundamental difference between the e-bikes that make them super util and useful to a commuter or person with a disability..........and one designed to make you pretend you're a bike racer. You can mountain climb on a French tour with a basic touring drop bar e-bike. What's the hidden look doing other than trying to fool people. Aka.........you feel shame about riding the normal kind of e-bike.

What would happen if somebody perfected the bio-mechanical exo skeletons already in use in factories to help workers lift loads? Instead you have a person show up to the local 5k or 1/2 marathon with some souped up exo-skeleton legs that let's them suddenly run a 6-minute mile. Can you imagine the running community looking at that? Oscar Pistorius was a ****** murderer, but his bio legs were still self powered. He wasn't using external power.
When I read ^that^ I had to double check to make sure it wasn't my name up there instead of @burnthesheep. I agree with everything you said. Okay, maybe not as concerned about bionic men in 5Ks ;-)

I've been riding for 45+ years. I'm still in the A group, still doing the "fast" group rides. But... I know those days/years are numbered. There will be that time when the A group just feels faster... and it'll hit me. I'm that guy. That guy who used to be sorta fast and talks about how he used to be really fast. And you know what I'm going to do? I'm going to be slower. I'm going to ride with the B group... then C group. I'll do shorter rides. I'll not go to the gaps and climb 7,000' on a Saturday morning. But, I'll be pedaling without a %&#*ing motor. Because I'm a cyclist.

More buts - But, I get it for those with medical issues and/or huge differences in fitness - spouse and spouse - doing rides together. B rides. C rides.

Just keep the mopeds out of the A group and off the MUTs.

Last edited by Zaskar; 10-08-19 at 12:58 PM.
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Old 10-08-19, 11:47 AM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by fried bake
On a related note, I am told my Orbea M30 arrives this Thursday; looking forward to the sneers and other sordid glances.
I've had one since May. You can hear the motor if it's quiet enough and you're listening for it but in general people think it's a normal road bike. The few that do want to know what the button is on top or what's up with the rear hub and are surprised that the battery is in the downtube. Reactions have been generally positive (at least to my face) but I don't ride in groups and I generally avoid antagonizing the competitive riders unless I'm on the recumbent.
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Old 10-08-19, 12:33 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Kabuki12
I have no idea what it is like in "The City". Here in Southern California , I rarely see people using them without pedaling. Some use the power plus the pedaling to go very fast , they are usually going to work and back versus recreation.
Only recently (i.e., this year) did certain types of e-bikes become legal in NYC. Prior to that, their use was illegal in the city, but that didn't stop people. Many of them are the throttle-activated type that do not need to be pedaled to reach speeds around 25 mph. Often used by food delivery guys. I live in Philly. The delivery guys on e-bikes can be a real menace. They weave in and out of car traffic and often blow lights. Many of them do not have lights at night. Seen many near collision outside my local watering hole as they speed through intersections without slowing down. Nothing "bicycle" about them. They are, in effect, electric motor cycles.
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Old 10-08-19, 12:40 PM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by eduskator

The more cyclists there are, the more respect we'll get from other users of the road (such as car drivers...). They (we) tend to become a lot more respectful towards cyclists once they (we) jump on a bike and start riding it next to cars.
Do you think the guy riding a throttle-activated e-bike at 24 mph through an intersection without slowing down and weaving in and out of traffic is going to garner more respect for cyclists? I don't. And what I described is not a rare occurrence in some places. I see it every day in Philly. I have also seen it in NYC.
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Old 10-08-19, 12:52 PM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Do you think the guy riding a throttle-activated e-bike at 24 mph through an intersection without slowing down and weaving in and out of traffic is going to garner more respect for cyclists? I don't. And what I described is not a rare occurrence in some places. I see it every day in Philly. I have also seen it in NYC.
Your argument is pointless. There are also lots of cyclists riding regular bikes doing that. I witness them every day not respecting traffic lights, stops, etc. regardless of the bike under their butt.
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Old 10-08-19, 01:14 PM
  #58  
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That is dangerous and very foolish. I agree that Ebikes make it easier to ride dangerously , but have also seen regular bicycles doing foolish things. I spent a little time in the hospital after hitting the ground going 12 mph (face plant) I had a helmet on so no brain injury. My face was broken in 5 places including my orbital bone which carries the optical nerve , I could have been blinded in one eye. I also broke my left hand. I don't think a lot of us realize how seriously we can be injured. I was just a little too close to the shoulder and my tire caught a rut in the asphalt, down I went! Joe
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Old 10-08-19, 01:21 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
I've no problems with ebikes. Don't care about KOMs on Strava. If someone brought one out to a group ride I'd expect him to do all the pulling.�� What I dislike is that on my commute, and this happened twice today, one on each trip, these guys are on a MUP, going in excess of 20mph where there are pedestrians and slower cyclists (me). One of these numb nuts passed me this morning very stealthily in the dark with no lights, no warning, probably going 25 mph.

These things should be on the road with the speeds they are capable of. But that's another thread. I know.��
Don't need an e-bike for that, plenty of roadies do it on the MUP here all the time. I'll do 20+ on the MUP if it's empty, but have no problem slowing down if there's traffic, if I care about my average speed, I'm out on the road.

Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Presumably he would have had less fun under his own power and riding with the 'not pretty fast group'?
Who knows, he was having fun and there was no podium involved, so more power to him. Maybe he couldn't have finished it at all under his own power and the e-bike allowed him to both finish and ride with the fast group. Again, so long as there's not a podium involved, I don't care if there are e-bikes in the group, so long as they ride safe and know how to handle their bike. But if it's an actual race, then the only motors involved had better be legs. Right now this isn't an issue, as e-bikes are pretty easily identifiable, should be interesting as the tech shrinks and they become indistinguishable from regular bikes.
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Old 10-08-19, 01:44 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by eduskator
Your argument is pointless. There are also lots of cyclists riding regular bikes doing that. I witness them every day not respecting traffic lights, stops, etc. regardless of the bike under their butt.
Lots of riders going from 5 to 25 as fast as a throttle e-bike can? LOL! Nowhere close to the majority of non-motorized cyclists ride like nearly all of the throttle e-bike riders do 'round these parts. Indeed, how many people can even sustain 25 mph on city streets?

I don't have a problem with power-assist e-bikes. The ones where you must pedal to gain assist. But come to the big city and nearly get plowed over by a throttle bike (possibly when it jumps onto the sidewalk) and I think reality will change your mind about some things.

Don't let your combativeness cause you to ignore certain realities.

Last edited by indyfabz; 10-08-19 at 01:48 PM.
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Old 10-08-19, 02:17 PM
  #61  
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I would love to have an e-bike with the pedal assist as I can see one increasing the distance of my rides, but I couldn't in good conscience take a KOM or even a PR with one due to not being completely under my own power.

I can see an e-bike greatly helping me climb allowing me to ride up a hill instead of walking, and I can see an e-bike helping me keep my heart rate under control.

I rode a cruiser style e-bike around the parking lot at my LBS and really enjoyed it. That said I would rather spend the money on a thru axle disc brake rode bike.
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Old 10-08-19, 02:18 PM
  #62  
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In holland it's way worse
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Old 10-08-19, 04:20 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Rides4Beer

Who knows, he was having fun and there was no podium involved, so more power to him. Maybe he couldn't have finished it at all under his own power and the e-bike allowed him to both finish and ride with the fast group. Again, so long as there's not a podium involved, I don't care if there are e-bikes in the group, so long as they ride safe and know how to handle their bike. But if it's an actual race, then the only motors involved had better be legs. Right now this isn't an issue, as e-bikes are pretty easily identifiable, should be interesting as the tech shrinks and they become indistinguishable from regular bikes.
What should be interesting is if the quasi-race events (eg. Gran Fondos, Tours de XYZ, etc) that are timed/chipped events with podiums, prizes etc, start to allow registered e-bikers into the events -- no, those entrants wouldn't qualify for a prize, and maybe relegated to their own category rankings, etc, but might be attractive to organizers interested in additional money grabbing.
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Old 10-08-19, 04:50 PM
  #64  
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There is just so much potential money to be made off these things, building, selling, repairing, regulating, licensing, and insuring them. Everyone benefits, except for traditional cyclists like us. We deal with the social fallout of being associated with drunk college kids (or adults) driving them around recklessly.

The social compact, at one time, was "use your own power to propel yourself, and we will cut you some slack on licensing and regulations". Those days might be coming to an end soon.
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Old 10-08-19, 05:22 PM
  #65  
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“I want the same results without putting in the same work.” Does that about sum it up?
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Old 10-08-19, 05:33 PM
  #66  
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Which came first.. the elevator or the escalator..? That's what started it all..
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Old 10-08-19, 05:49 PM
  #67  
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Originally Posted by mcours2006
I've no problems with ebikes. Don't care about KOMs on Strava. If someone brought one out to a group ride I'd expect him to do all the pulling.😁 What I dislike is that on my commute, and this happened twice today, one on each trip, these guys are on a MUP, going in excess of 20mph where there are pedestrians and slower cyclists (me). One of these numb nuts passed me this morning very stealthily in the dark with no lights, no warning, probably going 25 mph.

These things should be on the road with the speeds they are capable of. But that's another thread. I know.😒
I've not yet run into e-bikes at those speeds here on the bike path but since the world if full of thoughtless, clueless people I know that day will come. One similar problem in the boating world here is speed boats operated by that type of person, who these days may well be on other substances besides alcohol, speeding around thoughtlessly with the result there have been several deaths.
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Old 10-08-19, 06:14 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by Sy Reene
Which came first.. the elevator or the escalator..? That's what started it all..
Elevator.
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Old 10-08-19, 06:28 PM
  #69  
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I used to have a moped when I was a kid. I could pedal it and if on occasion it would run then I could motor with it also. So an e-bike has a motor and pedals, so it is a moped. And I cannot see how a motor vehicle belongs in a ride, race or path for a bicycle. I used to have a VW Beetle, I could push it and often did, again, so I guess it was a hybrid sometimes using human power and on occasion, when it would run, a motor, kind of. It did not have pedals but the floor was rusted out so I could stick my legs down and actually walk it along, should I be able to enter it in a bicycle race or use a MUP or bike path?
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Old 10-08-19, 10:49 PM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by pickettt
“I want the same results without putting in the same work.” Does that about sum it up?
No.
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Old 10-08-19, 10:59 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by Seattle Forrest
No.
Which part is inaccurate?
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Old 10-08-19, 11:43 PM
  #72  
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Originally Posted by burnthesheep
Uhmmm, if folks know for sure.......just flag it. If the person can't provide pretty solid proof, Strava won't reinstate. Then the person has to try it again.

Nobody can really get offended at a flagged effort on shorter segments. If you can really do it, you can do it again.
Does Srava actually do anything with reported/flagged segments?

I reported an issue with a segment near where I ride, dude doing 107.8 Km/h on a flat stretch of road, nothing has been done about it (reported over a month ago).
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Old 10-09-19, 04:55 AM
  #73  
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It used to be said, in a very different era, that a conservative is just a liberal who’s been mugged. Well, I haven’t been mugged by an ebike yet, but there is time.
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Old 10-09-19, 05:06 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by pickettt
Which part is inaccurate?
So you genuinely don’t understand that age and other physical ailments require that once fit people people need to use ebikes? Have you ever climbed a hill with your heart rate pegged at 220BPM while pushing a mere 150 watts. Ever heard of Afib? It affects typically fit cyclists, many of whom, like me, used to love to suffer and train, etc...
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Old 10-09-19, 05:30 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by fried bake
So you genuinely don’t understand that age and other physical ailments require that once fit people people need to use ebikes? Have you ever climbed a hill with your heart rate pegged at 220BPM while pushing a mere 150 watts. Ever heard of Afib? It affects typically fit cyclists, many of whom, like me, used to love to suffer and train, etc...
It depends on which sub-topic of the many being discussed in this thread he was referring to. Could be reference to OP's mention that the ebike riders were in the 20-30 yr old age group.. and follow-on mentions that they seemed to think it "fashionable", or that the industry stands to make some money on a trendy way to commute to work. who knows..
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