zjrog

Or am I already in an oxymoron? Any power meter pedals that use SPD cleats and shoes? Chainring based meters a good econimical setup?

Seattle Forrest

I waited for years for an SPD power meter, finally gave up 5+ years ago, there still isn't one. SRM is reportedly making one sometime, but I wouldn't hold my breath.

Most people say power2max is a good economical solution. A PowerTap hub can be a good bargain too.

Many people will disagree with what I'm about to say. My L/R balance changes constantly, with effort and moon phase. A one sided PM will double any discrepancy, meaning of I'm doing 60/40 it will be off by 20%. I think hundreds of dollars is too much to spend to not know your power output. Crank and him based meters inherently measure all of your power.

Seattle Forrest

Sorry, one more thing. There's really no value in knowing your L/R balance unless you're recovering from an injury. We all have some kind of imbalance for various reasons, it's natural, and you're better off just training to produce more power overall than to correct an imbalance. If, say, one of your legs is slightly longer than the other, trying to make the power meter say 50/50 will be counterproductive.

CliffordK

There is an SPD power meter on its way.

https://www.iqsquare.com/




It has been on Kickstarter & Indiegogo.

Still not shipping quite yet, but it is coming... I think. It was originally supposed to be an axle extender allowing any type of pedal to screw in, but that fell through with some fundamental design flaws.



So, anyway, no pedal extenders. We're supposed to get the whole pedals. But, they are way overdue. Still hoping maybe Christmas, or perhaps early next spring.

unterhausen

I predict that iQ2 will never ship, and if they do it will not be a good option.

One thing I have noticed about power meters is that the lowest price they are aiming for is about $400. For example, Stages seems to be de-emphasizing the lower end crank models. I kept hoping to be able to buy one for $200-ish, but that probably means I'm going to be stuck buying used PMs.

MinnMan

I gave up waiting for an spd pedal and went with Favero Assioma's. The Look Keo platform wasn't much of an adjustment from SPD-SLs.

I hemmed and hawed about getting a PM for years - hub vs. chainring vs. pedals, etc. Among other things I didn't want any of the pedal-based models on the market b/c I liked my SPD-SL pedals so much. In the end, the adjustment to Favero Assioma's was really illuminating and I hardly noticed the switch to the slightly different cleat design.

Like many of you, I have more than one bike, and this heavily favors getting a pedal-based system.

The only thing I might have done differently is I probably could have gotten away with just the one pedal version. I was certain that I had a significant L/R imbalance and that therefore I really needed two-sided. Now that I have the facts, I can see that I am seldom outside of the 48%/52% window, and so one sided would have been just fine - though I wouldn't have ever been sure had I not had two sides.

MinnMan

I don't follow the second point, but regarding the first, my understanding has been that there haven't been SPD or SPD-SL based pedals because Shimano won't license their design. If they did, then all the other pedal-based power meters would surely offer SPD-SL based models (the design difference for them would be small). So until iQ2 inks an agreement with Shimano, their prospects seem unlikely.

Why Shimano is so resistant to all this is a mystery to me. They could easily market their own pedal-based PM. What do they gain from staying out of this market and keeping others out as well?

unterhausen

patent recently expired on the SPD, so you will see more options. I didn't realize there was a patent issue because I have a couple of pairs of ISSI spd's. I guess they paid

iQ2 shows every sign of being just another failed kickstarter campaign. Every engineer thinks they can design a power meter until they are a couple of years into the design. They have been within a week of shipping a couple of times over the last year. I don't think they are so much lying to their customers as lying to themselves. I am not sure where they are on the hardware, but that is the easy part.

CliffordK

I presume Wellgo must have licensed the technology. But, perhaps some others did not.

The MKS MM-Cube was similar to SPD, but not quite compatible, but now has been dropped for a fully SPD compatible version.

Anyway, the basic SPD has been out for quite some time.

SPD-R came next, followed by SPD-SL, so we've had large platform pedals for quite some time, but with enough evolution that we may not see technologies merge for some time, if ever.

IQ2 is also offering a Look/Keo compatible pedal rather than SPD-SL




Well, they have it designed, but not on the market yet. Still "vaporware".

CliffordK

As far as failed power meters.

Several companies have succeeded. Several have failed. Xpedo is a moderate sized pedal company that had planned the Xpedo Thrust E. Lots of big announcements a couple of years ago, then it completely fizzled.

A few have gone boom and bust. There is the now the Watteam G2 PowerBeat which has been discontinued, and stocks are being cleared out. Crank based.

gregf83 

Best value for measuring power is an older wired SRM or Powertap. They work well but generally require a non-Garmin head unit to record. Plenty of old wired powermeters sitting around in riders garages and can likely be had for under $100. Slowtwitch, wattage group are good options for a query.

Next best is just a used SRM or Powertap. SRMs need periodic battery replacement but seldom fail.

redlude97

takes a bit of work but https://forum.trainerroad.com/t/a-wi...edals/18627/24

Seattle Forrest

SPD is "for" mountain bikes, which aren't really a hot market for power meters. They work just fine on the road, and they're better on gravel than road cleats, but I'm sure being a MTB pedal system is part of why this hasn't gone anywhere. (Although over heard SRM is coming out with one for SPD.)

Also, Shimano has a crank based PM now, or did that not happen?

CliffordK

I think there is a huge number of cyclists that are commuters/utility cyclists, or perhaps multi-sport cyclists that like the SPD pedal/cleat system and use them on road bikes.

My belief is that the first company to jump into the SPD market, perhaps at sub-$500 price range, will sell a BUNCH to casual users that are interested in training, but not interested in the full road thing.

Although, I would note that when IQ2 announced stopping development on the spindle power meter, and moving to SPD/Look, there were a number of complaints, especially from users with Speedplay.

It will be interesting to see their final sales of SPD vs Look, both initially, and long term. Assuming they actually make it to the market.

zacster

I agree with the uno vs. duo question. I too bought the duo, but once I saw my L/R balance a few times and it was 49/51 or vice versa, I realized I'll never look at that again and could just have gotten the uno. I'm not comparing my power to anyone else either so it doesn't matter if it is off by a few watts, what matters is that it keeps improving relative to its own reading.

DrIsotope

At least in my case, two-sided power is an unnecessary feature. The biggest discrepancy I ever saw, in over 1,500 recorded rides, was 53L/47R. Day in and day out is 51L/49R, but shorter, high-output efforts are 50/50 pretty much every time (my road bike has a Power2Max Type S.)

So when I updated the crankset on my go-anywhere bike, and it was the choice between $400 for single-sided and $750 for double, I didn't even hesitate on saving the money.

I also don't take to the idea of pedal-based power meters. PMs are still relatively pricey, so I'm not comfortable putting on in a wear item. Hub based is good, and cheap, but limits wheel-swapping. Spider or spindle based is where it's at AFAIC.

power2Max is a solid option, as are Rotor Inpower (discontinued but can still be found.) The older Inpower runs on a single AA battery in the spindle, and will last for months and months on a single cell.

Seattle Forrest

You're preaching to the choir. I'm one of the people on this thread but not the only one who waited for an SPD based meter.

I can't argue with the logic, but are pedals really wear items? I've never heard of one being worn out. If we're talking about dreams of SPD, those tend to be all metal, I had the same ones for a decade until I bought Vectors.

If we're talking about the pros and cons of what part of the bike to put a PM in, @RChung has said pedal meters tend to be less accurate than others. Not important for training. I bought a few long sleeve base layers and I bet they're more aerodynamic than my skin; I bought a speed sensor so I can find out for sure. Apparently a p2m or PT hub is better than my Vectors for this sort of thing.

CliffordK

My XPEDO R-Force Titanium body pedals are definitely showing wear, with a couple of different issues allowing unintentional release.

Other than basic foot retention, the pedals also have bearings. So, the wear on the bearings will depend on the basic design, and how easy they are to repair.

And, of course, there is risk of pedal strike, especially with MTB users.

Batteries?

So, yes, perhaps wear is something that should be kept in mind, and perhaps a reason to go with a solid state meter such as a crank based meter.

Darth Lefty 

This is awesome.

An XC racer would want a power meter. And in fact Stages has a one, as does Quarq.
Quarq for SRAM
https://www.quarq.com/product/xx1-ea...-meter-spider/

Stages for BB30 (SRAM, FSA, Race Face)
https://store.stagescycling.com/STAG...-SL-FSA-386EVO
Stages for SRAM GXP
https://store.stagescycling.com/STAG...N-SRAM-MTB-GXP
Stages for XT (there's XTR too)
https://store.stagescycling.com/STAGES-POWER-L-XT-M8000

The SPD vs crank is an interesting choice to make once the pedals finally arrive.

unterhausen

the SRM pedals are rebuildable, so that's one good thing about them. I have a friend that replaces his pedals every 6000 miles.

DrIsotope

I can't get more than ~10k miles out of a pair of two-bolt SPD type pedals. They're constant metal-on-metal contact, and at a certain point, no matter how fresh the cleats are, the pedals will still wobble and squeak and creak.

I currently use the long-discontinued Look S-Tracks, which have bale springs made out of stainless steel. They last about the same number of miles as SPDs overall, but I have to replace or rebuild

the right pedal (I unclip on the right) long before the left, because the engagement starts to get sloppy. Luckily eBay is still a decent source of used/NOS pedals. I've gone through... half a dozen?

redlude97

Shimano SPDs are rebuildable as well even if the parts aren't readily available, the pedal bodies can be swapped easily assuming the strain guages are located on the axle

CliffordK

I think I had looked at those Favero BEPro pedals a while ago. I think at one time, one could buy the bare spindles. Perhaps one still can (left spindles?)



I am a bit afraid of a wide Q-Factor.

As far as Shimano pedals, yes, the bearings are easily replaced and repacked. I really like that pedal design. But, it may not work for rebuilding something like the Favero pedals.

I suppose that is a risk with going with a Kickstarter/Indiegogo. What happens when something breaks and the company has chosen to move on?

jfranci3

I've had good luck with used PMs. I got a Power2Max off of Ebay and a Quarq off of Facebook. Ebay has too big of an audience. Do a facebook picture search limited by the current or past month and you'll find some deals.

For SPD pedals, the Favero pedal swap is the best solution, followed by a crank PM>