stardognine

This has been bugging me since I got my '88 Forte, and I finally found the answer, in Sheldon Brown's glossary.
The difference between Superset & Superset 2 is, original Superset from the '80s used round "normal" tubing, and Superset 2 from the '90s, used ovalized tubing. Fairly simple there, at least. 👍

But something else bugs me now, maybe worse, lol. I've seen pics online of stickers for both versions, using tubes from Tange AND Ishiwata (not on the same bike, lol). Anyone have an explanation of how things can get so mixed up? 🤔😁

I'm not too worried about it, now that I understand the basics, but thought I'd see what others know on this semi-important matter. 🙄😁

Bianchigirll 

It is my understand that the SuperSet frame was built using tube set made for Bianchi.

Say a basic Tange Infinity set would the have the DT and chain stays replaced with heavier gauge tubes at Bianchi's request. The same goes for Ishawata or Columbus. If your buying ten thousand Tange Infinity tube sets it would be no big deal to substitute the heavier tubes.

The Super Set II is uses an over sized DT but it is only ovalized at the bottom.

stardognine

You're right, I mis-remembered that part. Or mis-typed it, one or the other. 🤔 Maybe I can just blame Sheldon's glossary. 😁😉

I understand that Bianchi would have been interested in getting the best price, when buying the tubesets, but it just seems strange, to swap back & forth between suppliers. 🤔 I'd have thought some brand loyalty would be implied, but I guess that shows what I know. 🙄😉

ThermionicScott 

Creating a term like "Superset" allowed Bianchi to use whatever brand(s) of tubes they wanted without pinning themselves down to a particular one. I'm skeptical that there are any differences in performance or "feel" between a 0.9/0.6/0.9 tube from Columbus or Tange or Reynolds or Ishiwata. (Maybe if the butting lengths are different, that's about it.)

stardognine

You're right, of course, and I "kind of" saw that, (about their suppliers), but my mind didn't fully accept it. I guess I just don't think like a "business man". 🙁😉

Bianchigirll 

Are you implying that they mixed brands in their tube sets? They did in the early ‘80s and probably since the started buying tubes sets. They mixed Columbus and Falck.

I don’t think it is possible, nor good business sense, to have one manufacturer supply all of your tubing. If your doing that you may as well make your own.

using different brands of tubing, like different component manufacturers allows the ability to hit certain price points.

T-Mar

Supertset tubing was introduced by Bianchi for the 1984 model year. The first of the Japanese Supesets came from Ishiwata and later from Tange. Bianchi didn't mix Tange and Ishiwata product to make Supersets. They just utilized a heavier gauge tubeset from the same manufacturer (i.e. Ishiwata 022 with 024 chainstays and downtube). The move to the Superset configuration was prompted by the desire of a stiffer bottom bracket, which was one of the big topics for designers in the mid-1980s.

The trick of using heavier gauge down tubes and chainstays to stiffen the bottom bracket had long been employed by small volume framebuilders but things hit the mainstream in 1983 when Reynolds introduced 531C, which utilized a heavier gauge down tube. Columbus offered their solution in 1984 with SLX and SPX, which had helical ridges inside the bottom bracket end of the down tube, seat tube and chainstays. Miyata responded in 1985 with with triple buttled tubing that had heavier butts at the bottom bracket end of the seat and down tubes. Ishiwata went one step further with quad butted tubing in 1985.

Bianchi introduced Superset II as a refinement of Superset. The oversize downtube further increased stiffness, as did the oval bottom bracket end of the downtube with the lateral orientation of the major axis. Both tricks had previously been employed by ATB manufacturers and Masi had introduced the Volumetrica with it's oversized tubes in 1984.

Edit: I forgot to mention that the use of Ishiwata or Tange in the Supersets for a given year was probably as simple as which tubing manufacturing offered the best pricing to Bianchi's Japanese manufacturer.

ThermionicScott 

I don't/didn't know one way or the other, so I left it open. Sorry if I implied something that wasn't true.

stardognine

I didn't mean to imply they mixed brands in any years either, sorry if I confused anyone. I just meant to refer to the way they changed between Ishiwata for one year, to Tange for another. Hopefully, T-Mar clarified this for all of us now. 😎
Thanks to all of you, for helping me understand things better. 👍

3speedslow

Sorry to dredge up a 2 year old thread but my question; for the Japanese Superset 2 frames they could be Tange or Ishiwata. If it was an Italian made frame then the Superset 2 frame was Dedacciai?