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We need bike lanes in my city, I want your thoughts

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Road Cycling “It is by riding a bicycle that you learn the contours of a country best, since you have to sweat up the hills and coast down them. Thus you remember them as they actually are, while in a motor car only a high hill impresses you, and you have no such accurate remembrance of country you have driven through as you gain by riding a bicycle.” -- Ernest Hemingway

We need bike lanes in my city, I want your thoughts

Old 08-29-12, 07:58 PM
  #26  
Seattle Forrest
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Originally Posted by DropDeadFred
I've been pushing our mayor to push for bike lanes* in our city, we currently have zero. She seems to think that we as a community believe we are safer without them.
Where did she get this idea? By listening to the "vehicular cyclists" or by thinking "if we put in bike lanes, we'll have to get rid of traffic lanes or parking?"

If there's a bike lane, and riding there won't put me in danger (door zone from parked cars, or, in the fall, that's where they don't remove debris like wet leaves) then I'll ride in it. Generally I try to take quieter residential streets, which usually don't have bike lanes, but don't need them, either. That isn't always possible. When I'm on a stretch of road and there's a good bike lane, that line of paint keeps most cars away, and the drivers tend to be less pissed at me.

The real benefit, though, is that a lot of people who might be on the fence about using their bikes seem to feel safer when there's a bike lane. I get that impression from coworkers who ride 5 to 10 miles a week.

We have some "buffered" bike lanes that look like this. Drivers tend to respect them, but not so much at turns (right hook!), even with the green paint on the road surface.

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Old 08-29-12, 08:08 PM
  #27  
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This bike lane puts the rider in the Door Zone.

That Double White Line will Not stop any vehicle from hitting a rider.

Lookie to the very end of the bike lane, An 80,000 LB Concrete Truck.

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Old 08-29-12, 08:14 PM
  #28  
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Do you think the cyclist in the photo is in the door zone? (S)he is riding in the bike lane, and I'd say a safe distance from the cars.

The lane doesn't force a person into the death zone, but it doesn't prevent them from being there, either. The cyclists still need to use their gray matter.
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Old 08-29-12, 08:21 PM
  #29  
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The door of a 1974 LTD coupe couldn't even touch that rider.
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Old 08-29-12, 08:27 PM
  #30  
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Even if the biker is in the door zone, or the truck is in the bike lane. Imagine the road without the bike lane, the rider would not only be 2 feet closer to the door zone, but also 2 feet closer to the cars. With the bike lane at least it gives the biker an option to bike down that road and some safety. And who knows, that truck might have looked before to make sure there was no biker to make a turn.
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Old 08-29-12, 08:34 PM
  #31  
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ok so take away the bike lane from this picture and you're left on the right of the road, still in the door zone and with no visible markings to remind drivers that they don't belong there and you do. The notion to say that theres no benefit is a bit silly imo

The right hook issue will always be an issue and really comes down to cyclist awareness and safety, you have to know that you are going to be in danger at intersections and should approach with caution and make sure you look and make your presence known before continuing through. Be a defensive cyclist
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Old 08-29-12, 08:42 PM
  #32  
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I'd take a small two lane road over an unmaintained bike lane any day. But clean bike lanes are the best.
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Old 08-29-12, 08:47 PM
  #33  
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yeah that

Originally Posted by TrojanHorse
I like bike lanes but I don't like how sporadic they are - near me, I'll be riding along... bike lane, bike lane, bike lane, then no bike lane. What? Any time there's a traffic calming measure (little island in the middle, or those things that stick out from the curb) the bike lane is the thing that gets sacrificed.

My preference is to have roads with a wide enough right lane that I can ride there. All this effort to promote bike lanes is great, but what about the roads with no bike lanes? Are we not allowed to ride there as well? What do drivers think when they see cyclists in a bike lane and then see cyclists NOT in a bike lane?

I used to be solidly in the "bike lane" camp but I think now I'd prefer none, just plenty of room. I'd even go so far as to support bike licenses that we can hang under the seat so we can tell motorists to STFU, we paid for our right to be on the road. That would be worth $25 a year to me.
+1 here. Grand Rapids has been awarded a bike friendly city and they have made strides but the randomness of the bike lanes is ridicoulous. They just announced another $80,000 to be spent on bike lanes and gave the list of roads. .5 miles here. .3 there. Roads that are plenty wide with no traffic. If the city sidewalks or bus routes were that random, people would be up in arms.
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Old 08-29-12, 09:00 PM
  #34  
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We have to remember here that by adding a bike lane makes no one invisible inside of two white lines. There was, is, and always will be crashes between cars and bikes, if you want a perfect world where there are none, go to sleep and dream it. It comes down to common sense to know that the bike lane isn't a couple of walls that keeps you safe from everything near you, and you still need to be careful. It just gives you extra room that you can use to your advantage when being safe. And not every car has a driver that is driving around the city seeking out defensless bikers in bike lanes to run over.

There is a third option: https://www.sharethedamnroad.com/
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Old 08-29-12, 09:12 PM
  #35  
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I prefer bike lanes to separated paths. The separated paths attract pedestrians, which cause more problems than cars in my experience.

There are lots of bike lanes around here and most of the highways have wide shoulders. I grew up in the Midwest where there weren't hardly any bike lanes and most of the highways had narrow shoulders, if any shoulder at all. I much prefer the riding here. I think it's mostly an awareness thing that bikes do belong on the road. In the Midwest all I ever heard was "sidewalk" this and "sidewalk" that. Having your own space is nice and I think it takes some of the anger away from people who may have been stuck behind you on a road without a bike lane. Sure you run across your idiots and your salmon out there, but nothing is perfect.
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Old 08-29-12, 09:16 PM
  #36  
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I much preferred riding before bike lanes were installed in our city. The same reasons as above. People expect you to be in the bike lane, for left turns for instance and the expect you not to be on roads without them.

In a snowy climate like my city, the lanes don't get plowed or salted until days or weeks of a snow event. In the past, the bike lane was traffic lane, cars would use the lane and their tire tracks keep the path clear of snow. I complain regularly to the city to get these lanes cleared.

We don't have shoulders on most of our urban roads, just usually 4 lanes. So when riding in the right tire rut of a traditional lane, the cars tire keep the path clear of sharp objects and gravel. With the bike lane, a bottle thrown on the ground in June remains there until the first snow plow hits it in the winter, or a street sweeper cleans his way to a auto collision.

Taking a lane away from the drivers just makes some of the drivers angrier and more arrogant as traffic flow slows. The street near my house lost 1 1/2 lanes due to two bike lanes and "traffic calming measures" jutting out to keep people from passing on the right. Now, when a driver stops to make a left turn from the narrow direction, people behind will pass on the right over the bike lane and up on the side walk to get around.

My preference if we had to have bike lanes is the bike symbol on the road showing drivers where a cyclist could be riding along with signage showing the three foot rule and share the road.

I think that education and awareness campaigns could work better than spending the money on lanes. Our city has never tried that. It seems that they are in a race for bragging rights with other cities as to the number of kilometres of bike lanes they create each year. Cyclists could also benefit from education as how to ride in traffic and handle themselves on a road. For the cyclists still afraid of traffic, there is always bike path or their car.
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Old 08-29-12, 09:36 PM
  #37  
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Without bike lanes the cars get closer to me on the road. I have had a few come without inches. At least having a strip running down the side of the road tells the cars they need to stay out of my lane. I have been riding in these bike lanes six years and I haven't had any problems.
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Old 08-29-12, 10:19 PM
  #38  
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DDF,

My point is that drivers (at least in my area) don't pay attention to the bike lanes, it is almost as if they don't view it as a portion of the road therefore they are not concerned with what or whom is there. As long as I am in the street (ie not a bike lane or sidewalk) at least they see me. My presence may anger drivers, but most of them do not actively want to kill me, they just honk, yell, or go around, rigardless they know I'm there.

As drivers we are tought to pay attention to what is in our path of travel. This does not include things like bike lanes, sidewalks, or MUPs that travel alongside our streets. One of the most deadly places for a cyclist or runner is where a MUP crosses a street.

Bike lanes make a city appear cyclist friendly, but in my opinion create a danger zone where cyclists feel secure and drivers become blind.
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Old 08-29-12, 10:40 PM
  #39  
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If it's a rural or rural-suburban area, no bike lanes is probably fine.

In urban area though, those bike lanes are VERY helpful. I've ridden a fair amount in urban areas for commuting, and those bike lanes are really, really helpful. I've read the critiques of them, but in my experience, that's all hogwash. A clearly demarcated bike lane in an urban area clearly notes to motorists you have a right to part of the road and drastically decreases driver aggression. It's really, really noticeable - I bike commuted in LA for a few years, and the bike lanes appear and drop out from street to street. I very carefully chose out roads, alternate routes, before settling on a 'best' route for me on a bike. In all situations, the routes with the clearly marked bike lane were vastly preferably for riding on busy urban streets than not.

For those of you familiar with LA in the locale around super-car-busy UCLA, compare the sections of Wilshire boulevard which have no bike lanes to the parts of Santa Monica blvd that do have bike lanes. If you ride on Wilshire, you're risking life and limb as cars do everything they can to squeeze you off the road at the highest speeds possible. On Santa Monica blvd where the bike lanes exist, it's easy, pleasant cruising, even in rush hour - until the bike lane runs out and you're back to life and limb.

For quiet residential streets or low-traffic areas, the bike lanes aren't necessary and are frankly a waste of space, but for urban main throughfares, they're crucial imo. I don't buy for one second that it's equally safe with or without bike lanes in busy urban streets - one ride on the streets I mentioned above and you'd feel exactly like I do.
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Old 08-29-12, 10:47 PM
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1
If it's a rural or rural-suburban area, no bike lanes is probably fine.

In urban area though, those bike lanes are VERY helpful. I've ridden a fair amount in urban areas for commuting, and those bike lanes are really, really helpful. I've read the critiques of them, but in my experience, that's all hogwash. A clearly demarcated bike lane in an urban area clearly notes to motorists you have a right to part of the road and drastically decreases driver aggression. It's really, really noticeable - I bike commuted in LA for a few years, and the bike lanes appear and drop out from street to street. I very carefully chose out roads, alternate routes, before settling on a 'best' route for me on a bike. In all situations, the routes with the clearly marked bike lane were vastly preferably for riding on busy urban streets than not.

For those of you familiar with LA in the locale around super-car-busy UCLA, compare the sections of Wilshire boulevard which have no bike lanes to the parts of Santa Monica blvd that do have bike lanes. If you ride on Wilshire, you're risking life and limb as cars do everything they can to squeeze you off the road at the highest speeds possible. On Santa Monica blvd where the bike lanes exist, it's easy, pleasant cruising, even in rush hour - until the bike lane runs out and you're back to life and limb.

For quiet residential streets or low-traffic areas, the bike lanes aren't necessary and are frankly a waste of space, but for urban main throughfares, they're crucial imo. I don't buy for one second that it's equally safe with or without bike lanes in busy urban streets - one ride on the streets I mentioned above and you'd feel exactly like I do.
I agree completely. I also use to work near Wilshire and the 405 so I know how bad the traffic is.
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Old 08-29-12, 11:04 PM
  #41  
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I like bike lanes. Having homes in Chicago and in the San Francisco Bay Area, I experience riding in Metro areas with and without. I much prefer Bay Area riding where it seems more roads, but not all, have the lanes. I have no empirical data to to support or refute the safety claims, but I am of the opinion the lanes, at minimum, serve as a reminder to motorists that bicyclists might be present much in the way school crossing zones build some awareness to the possible presence of children. I know when I'm driving and see a bike lane, it serves as a trigger to my awareness.
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Old 08-29-12, 11:17 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by hhnngg1
If it's a rural or rural-suburban area, no bike lanes is probably fine.
Agreed
Originally Posted by hhnngg1
In urban area though, those bike lanes are VERY helpful. I've ridden a fair amount in urban areas for commuting, and those bike lanes are really, really helpful. I've read the critiques of them, but in my experience, that's all hogwash. A clearly demarcated bike lane in an urban area clearly notes to motorists you have a right to part of the road and drastically decreases driver aggression.
This depends on the specific streets in question. I generally don't like to have a separate area because it causes motorists to not notice you and drive as if you're not there at all. More importantly, it tells them you don't belong on the road in first place. I am traffic and have found that people will treat me as such if I simply act like it.

Until very recently, I did practically all my riding in an area where there were no bike lanes at all. Now, I live in a Portland where we have bike paths, lanes, and you name it everywhere. I find that I strongly prefer to take streets without such designated areas because I can move much better and I feel more like a part of the flow.
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Old 08-29-12, 11:27 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by banerjek
Agreed

This depends on the specific streets in question. I generally don't like to have a separate area because it causes motorists to not notice you and drive as if you're not there at all. More importantly, it tells them you don't belong on the road in first place. I am traffic and have found that people will treat me as such if I simply act like it.

Until very recently, I did practically all my riding in an area where there were no bike lanes at all. Now, I live in a Portland where we have bike paths, lanes, and you name it everywhere. I find that I strongly prefer to take streets without such designated areas because I can move much better and I feel more like a part of the flow.

Ride down Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles right around the UCLA area (which is a major throughfare, for peds cars and bikes) and I think you'd fine yourself wishing there were a bike lane as the cars try and squash you into the parked cars on the side. (There actually is enough room to ride a bike even with moving traffic and parked cars - but it's no fun whatsoever. A bike lane would be SO much better for that road.)

It's like night and day on those roads. The few times I actually braved Wilshire boulevard, I was in a state of near-constant panic as I constantly expected someone to run me down. Contrast with the huge smile on my face once I got off that road to the parallel, similar sized and similar volume Santa Monica blvd which has a bike lane for large portions - that was like riding in luxury, and actually a very pleasant commute even in the heaviest rush hour (actually, the heavier the rush hour the more pleasant that bike lane was!) Wilshire sucked all the time, even if the cars were basically stopped, they'd constantly cut you off so and have no awareness of your presence - in large part because there's no bike lane.
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Old 08-30-12, 05:21 AM
  #44  
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I like the bike lanes in our area during rush hour on busy roads. Our area is not populated enough to clog the roads and slow traffic at rush hours but is populated enough to have the roads completely full of cars buzzing around at 45+ mph in town. Everyone is in a hurry to get to work or get home and they seem to do crazy things. I find I have less crap to deal with during those times if the road has bike lanes. Other than that I don't particularly care if there is a bike lane because they are often clogged with the previously mentioned debris and/or storm drains.
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Old 08-30-12, 05:48 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by DropDeadFred
asking that the mods leave this in the 41 for a bit because I specifically want an answer from them then I will go to the safety forum later as well.

I've been pushing our mayor to push for bike lanes* in our city, we currently have zero. She seems to think that we as a community believe we are safer without them. I understand that there are pros and cons but i think the pros far out weigh any of the cons. The awareness it brings to drivers that cyclists belong on the road, the extra room and its amazing how much that white line helps protect us on some of the busier roads.

We have quite the cycling community and more and more people are starting to commute or consider it, the problem is, its quite dangerous. We are in the south (columbus, ga) and full of rednecks who don't understand we pay taxes and have rights to the road as well.



thoughts?

Do you prefer riding on roads without bike lanes* or with??? (I'm not talking about deep downtown where there are tons of parked cars...
Bike lanes can be a mixed blessing, for all some folks talk like they are the bane of the roads and others talk like they are the ultimate solution to cycle safety they aren't really either.

On a busy road a designated area for cyclists to use can be reassuring for everyone - an area that's specifically earmarked for cyclists and with the road marked so it's clearly wide enough for a motor vehicle to pass a bike in the bike lane without crossing into the other lane. They also provide a specific lane that cyclists can use to pass heavy traffic and, depending on your local laws, the very existence of such a lane may mean that doing so is perfectly legal as opposed to something that's just considered normal.

Some drivers will cut into bike lanes as they go round corners, if they are passing something that's turning across traffic etc. Sometimes a car will pull into a bike lane without warning to let an emergency vehicle pass, which is great in theory but creates another emergency if there was a bike alongside them at the time.

Bike lanes, by their nature, will typically be at the kerbside of the road. That means you get to ride through the patch where all the debris tends to end up, the side of the road usually breaks up before the main body of the road, the street drains are at the side of the road, and so on. For good measure a bike lane can create the impression among motorists that bikes belong in the bike lane rather than on the road. The kerbside of the road is also where people will park, so you potentially end up having to keep merging in and out of traffic anyway, which is awkward if the traffic regards cyclists as mobile obstacles that don't belong in the road.

If the bike lanes are added as an afterthought and the road isn't really wide enough to support them then they are less likely to offer much benefit, as a bit of paint on the road doesn't create any more space. If you've got nice wide lanes that can easily take a cyclist and a huge SUV with room to spare it's not a problem; if you end up with a lane that's not wide enough for a large vehicle then people will drive in the bike lane anyway because there's no other option, in which case the paint on the road is a waste of paint.

Another potential issue is that if as a cyclist you need to turn across the traffic you have to get right across the lane, which can be tricky in heavy traffic. There's a road near me that has a bike lane (with many of the issues I've described above - potholes, drain covers etc) and getting across the lane to turn right across the traffic sometimes feels like playing Russian roulette with the traffic. Normally I'm going close enough to the prevailing traffic speed to be able to push my way across reasonably easily but someone going more slowly would struggle.
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Old 08-30-12, 05:58 AM
  #46  
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I've only ridden on one road with bike lanes. They allow parallel parking in the bike lane, so when you get to that area, you have to ride in the middle of the road, you physically can't ride in the bike lane.

Basically, if they build bike lanes around here, they're going to put them on streets that don't need bike lanes anyway. "Here's a nice wide street with minimal car traffic, let's put a bike lane there." Well, that's not where you need it.
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Old 08-30-12, 06:03 AM
  #47  
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There is a ton of research arguing the safety merits for/against bike lanes.

You can find a ton of research as well as other information on bicycle traffic engineering at www.bicyclinginfo.org. It's a really useful site.

Also, PM me if you need more specific info.
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Old 08-30-12, 06:30 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Chickenstrip
DDF,

My point is that drivers (at least in my area) don't pay attention to the bike lanes, it is almost as if they don't view it as a portion of the road therefore they are not concerned with what or whom is there. As long as I am in the street (ie not a bike lane or sidewalk) at least they see me. My presence may anger drivers, but most of them do not actively want to kill me, they just honk, yell, or go around, rigardless they know I'm there.

As drivers we are tought to pay attention to what is in our path of travel. This does not include things like bike lanes, sidewalks, or MUPs that travel alongside our streets. One of the most deadly places for a cyclist or runner is where a MUP crosses a street.

Bike lanes make a city appear cyclist friendly, but in my opinion create a danger zone where cyclists feel secure and drivers become blind.
Well from what I read in my research the city has to employ strong enforcement to get drivers to respect the lines...it doesn't take long for word to spread that you get a ticket for riding in the bike lane is the method
Originally Posted by hhnngg1
If it's a rural or rural-suburban area, no bike lanes is probably fine.

In urban area though, those bike lanes are VERY helpful. I've ridden a fair amount in urban areas for commuting, and those bike lanes are really, really helpful. I've read the critiques of them, but in my experience, that's all hogwash. A clearly demarcated bike lane in an urban area clearly notes to motorists you have a right to part of the road and drastically decreases driver aggression. It's really, really noticeable - I bike commuted in LA for a few years, and the bike lanes appear and drop out from street to street. I very carefully chose out roads, alternate routes, before settling on a 'best' route for me on a bike. In all situations, the routes with the clearly marked bike lane were vastly preferably for riding on busy urban streets than not.

For those of you familiar with LA in the locale around super-car-busy UCLA, compare the sections of Wilshire boulevard which have no bike lanes to the parts of Santa Monica blvd that do have bike lanes. If you ride on Wilshire, you're risking life and limb as cars do everything they can to squeeze you off the road at the highest speeds possible. On Santa Monica blvd where the bike lanes exist, it's easy, pleasant cruising, even in rush hour - until the bike lane runs out and you're back to life and limb.

For quiet residential streets or low-traffic areas, the bike lanes aren't necessary and are frankly a waste of space, but for urban main throughfares, they're crucial imo. I don't buy for one second that it's equally safe with or without bike lanes in busy urban streets - one ride on the streets I mentioned above and you'd feel exactly like I do.
exactly my thoughts. I lived in LA and have ridden out there...it's pretty scary
Originally Posted by hhnngg1
Ride down Wilshire Boulevard in Los Angeles right around the UCLA area (which is a major throughfare, for peds cars and bikes) and I think you'd fine yourself wishing there were a bike lane as the cars try and squash you into the parked cars on the side. (There actually is enough room to ride a bike even with moving traffic and parked cars - but it's no fun whatsoever. A bike lane would be SO much better for that road.)

It's like night and day on those roads. The few times I actually braved Wilshire boulevard, I was in a state of near-constant panic as I constantly expected someone to run me down. Contrast with the huge smile on my face once I got off that road to the parallel, similar sized and similar volume Santa Monica blvd which has a bike lane for large portions - that was like riding in luxury, and actually a very pleasant commute even in the heaviest rush hour (actually, the heavier the rush hour the more pleasant that bike lane was!) Wilshire sucked all the time, even if the cars were basically stopped, they'd constantly cut you off so and have no awareness of your presence - in large part because there's no bike lane.
Having stayed of Ventura there were many times I wished there was a bike lane
Originally Posted by StephenH
I've only ridden on one road with bike lanes. They allow parallel parking in the bike lane, so when you get to that area, you have to ride in the middle of the road, you physically can't ride in the bike lane.

Basically, if they build bike lanes around here, they're going to put them on streets that don't need bike lanes anyway. "Here's a nice wide street with minimal car traffic, let's put a bike lane there." Well, that's not where you need it.
sounds like your city did a crap job and is not doing you any favors by allowing parking in those lanes
Originally Posted by topflightpro
There is a ton of research arguing the safety merits for/against bike lanes.

You can find a ton of research as well as other information on bicycle traffic engineering at www.bicyclinginfo.org. It's a really useful site.

Also, PM me if you need more specific info.
I actually have been on that page and have linked that to her twice.
im not looking to have every street in Columbus ga painted with bike lanes, but there are some that would be ideal for commuting in our city and would be very helpful to our safety and advocacy. She talked about an honorable mention we received as a cyclist friendly community...we got this because we cycle on fort benning primarily where it's safe...you can count the commuters we have on both hands which is sad.
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Old 08-30-12, 06:45 AM
  #49  
Ingtwai
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This group has been instrumental in promoting cycling issues in our community, including at least $22m in grants for road/trail improvements, and success in establishing citywide street design standards to better meet the needs of cyclists and pedestrians.

https://pednet.org/
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Old 08-30-12, 06:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Ingtwai
This group has been instrumental in promoting cycling issues in our community, including at least $22m in grants for road/trail improvements, and success in establishing citywide street design standards to better meet the needs of cyclists and pedestrians.

https://pednet.org/
thanks
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