Any other mashers out there?
09-13-18, 09:50 AM
#76
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I always ride as fast as i can in the hardest gear. The goal is always cruising around inthe 53x12! What?! people think this is wrong? Do they not like going fast and getting fit? i have lots of extra 12t and 13t cogs, so not so worried about wear. Unfortunately, I cant do this as often as I like as i live 100m above everything around me.
09-13-18, 10:08 AM
#77
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This mirror the way I used to see Armstrong ride in the Tour de France. During the early part of stages, his cadence and speed were identical to the rest of the peloton.
But when he needed to make a move or chase someone down, at that point his cadence would get very high, and he would take care of the situation.
This made me suspect he and his coaches had figured out that a normal cadence really is the most efficient, but for higher intensity efforts, high cadence is the way to go, just save it for for the end of the stage so you don't bonk.
But when he needed to make a move or chase someone down, at that point his cadence would get very high, and he would take care of the situation.
This made me suspect he and his coaches had figured out that a normal cadence really is the most efficient, but for higher intensity efforts, high cadence is the way to go, just save it for for the end of the stage so you don't bonk.
09-13-18, 10:15 AM
#78
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I could, but the slope would have to be about 10 feet long!
Seriously, I geared way down for a multi-mile 9% grade, was still on the big ring on my hybrid (48T), though.
09-13-18, 10:19 AM
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I mash, I spin...I'm still slow. 
09-13-18, 10:20 AM
#81
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Racers have to get through a course in the least amount of time, usually over a matter of hours. They will trade efficiency for speed. That is, they'd shade towards more power and less efficient to win the race.
09-13-18, 10:31 AM
#82
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Originally Posted by Colnago Mixte
Oops. Sounds like I owe someone an apology. Do you have an address where can I send you a card?
This is probably not the proper question to ask. If one were doing an endurance race where one could eat whatever one wanted and then had to ride as far as possible, perhaps the low rpm approach would be used. So low rpm and high efficiency might win.
Racers have to get through a course in the least amount of time, usually over a matter of hours. They will trade efficiency for speed. That is, they'd shade towards more power and less efficient to win the race.
Racers have to get through a course in the least amount of time, usually over a matter of hours. They will trade efficiency for speed. That is, they'd shade towards more power and less efficient to win the race.
So the question is valid. Why don't racers mash? Or, why were they even brought up in a mashing thread?
OP (and others) should get an even larger gear and show the pros how it's done.
09-13-18, 10:37 AM
#83
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TDF riders used to mash back in the 50's, it was the style. And will eventually fall back into fashion again, when some charismatic, self-effacing, but confident 250 lb pizza-eating former Sumo wrestler shocks everyone, and wins the Tour in 2028.
This stuff seems to go in cycles, just like nutrition and health advice. You can never get a straight answer on such topics, just a rehash of the latest conventional wisdom, which later turns out to be wrong.
This stuff seems to go in cycles, just like nutrition and health advice. You can never get a straight answer on such topics, just a rehash of the latest conventional wisdom, which later turns out to be wrong.
09-13-18, 10:42 AM
#84
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Probably the best example of masher vs non-masher racing. Pantani vs Armstrong, Alpe D'huez, 2000:
09-13-18, 11:47 AM
#85
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TDF riders used to mash back in the 50's, it was the style. And will eventually fall back into fashion again, when some charismatic, self-effacing, but confident 250 lb pizza-eating former Sumo wrestler shocks everyone, and wins the Tour in 2028.
This stuff seems to go in cycles, just like nutrition and health advice. You can never get a straight answer on such topics, just a rehash of the latest conventional wisdom, which later turns out to be wrong.
This stuff seems to go in cycles, just like nutrition and health advice. You can never get a straight answer on such topics, just a rehash of the latest conventional wisdom, which later turns out to be wrong.
Also, as he aged, his coaches counselled that he do more endurance work. These days, aging riders are encouraged to do strength work I think.
09-13-18, 12:17 PM
#86
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Haha, That's ok, I'm good. I only quoted you because of your reference to racers.
Several posters have eluded to mashing being more efficient, or even faster. See even the opening post. OP is blowing by others thanks to his high gear.
So the question is valid. Why don't racers mash? Or, why were they even brought up in a mashing thread?
OP (and others) should get an even larger gear and show the pros how it's done.
Several posters have eluded to mashing being more efficient, or even faster. See even the opening post. OP is blowing by others thanks to his high gear.
So the question is valid. Why don't racers mash? Or, why were they even brought up in a mashing thread?
OP (and others) should get an even larger gear and show the pros how it's done.
Eddy Merckx. Dominated the sport. Look him up. It's not THAT long ago.
Look, I never claimed that what I'm doing is faster than pros. I'm just claiming to be faster than >95% of the riders I encounter on the road which, except for my age and the distances I'm riding that fast, really isn't that extraordinary.
Like I said above, even if the fastest grinders are faster than the fastest mashers, it does not logically follow that I will be faster grinding than I am mashing. I may just be better built for one over the other.
09-13-18, 01:09 PM
#87
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Eddy Merckx set his hour record at an average cadence of about 104rpm. He wasn't a masher per se; racing bikes just didn't have very low gears, so racers inevitable used very low cadences on climbs, and it made sense to develop a wide range of pedaling form.
09-13-18, 01:40 PM
#88
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That would be crazy! I did do a whole summer going up the hills with a 39-21, and built some serious thigh muscles. Of course not the best for the bike or me 39-26 is the comfort rartio. But 53-12 almost all the way to town practicall, about 15km.
09-13-18, 07:51 PM
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09-13-18, 10:21 PM
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09-14-18, 01:45 AM
#91
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09-14-18, 09:19 AM
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09-14-18, 09:27 AM
#93
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There is, Lance is 110-120, Pantani is 80 to 90.
Ullirch is 70 to 80.
Ullrich vs Lance
https://youtu.be/u5JYbdDRRrw
Ullirch is 70 to 80.
Ullrich vs Lance
https://youtu.be/u5JYbdDRRrw
EPO is amazing, huh?
Armstrong's cadence is not doable without cheating, so relevance?
09-14-18, 09:44 AM
#94
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Pantani is the one who tested "positive" for EPO, and was banned in 1999.
Jan was found guilty of doping in 2012, retroactive to 2005.
So all their numbers are based on doping, and thus comparable.
Anyway, the drugs likely just enhanced their respective styles, rather than making them possible.
09-14-18, 09:56 AM
#95
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Ahem.
Pantani is the one who tested "positive" for EPO, and was banned in 1999.
Jan was found guilty of doping in 2012, retroactive to 2005.
So all their numbers are based on doping, and thus comparable.
Anyway, the drugs likely just enhanced their respective styles, rather than making them possible.
Pantani is the one who tested "positive" for EPO, and was banned in 1999.
Jan was found guilty of doping in 2012, retroactive to 2005.
So all their numbers are based on doping, and thus comparable.
Anyway, the drugs likely just enhanced their respective styles, rather than making them possible.
If you're comparing efficiencies of different tactics, the doping era should probably just be ignored.
09-14-18, 10:26 AM
#96
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Nah, I think they really aren't comparable--seems pretty obvious that spinning would be more enhanced by EPO and blood doping than slower cadences. I could be wrong, but I don't think "everyone benefited equally from cheatng" is a valid assumption.
If you're comparing efficiencies of different tactics, the doping era should probably just be ignored.
If you're comparing efficiencies of different tactics, the doping era should probably just be ignored.
It is nothing new. There are mashers and dancers in every profession race.
Why don't announcers talk about it more and focus on the bike and the kit?
You can't sell cadence, you can sell kit.
09-14-18, 10:36 AM
#97
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The pros aren't a great comparison for rec and amateur riders when looking at old youtube videos. The drugs popular and able to be used (illegally) over the years molded the style, at least somewhat.
When it was anabolics and other stuff, it was grinding and mashing and recovery and rebuild at that level physically. EPO and blood doping shifted the emphasis of the engine more towards the heart and lungs. So the Icarus documentary claimed anyway.
As a recreation and amateur racer I tend to spin. I find I can gain/maintain the fitness with my limited time input better if I focus on that part of the engine more than doing "overgeared" workouts. By spin, I mean I do my work at 100+ rpm.
When it was anabolics and other stuff, it was grinding and mashing and recovery and rebuild at that level physically. EPO and blood doping shifted the emphasis of the engine more towards the heart and lungs. So the Icarus documentary claimed anyway.
As a recreation and amateur racer I tend to spin. I find I can gain/maintain the fitness with my limited time input better if I focus on that part of the engine more than doing "overgeared" workouts. By spin, I mean I do my work at 100+ rpm.
09-14-18, 11:07 AM
#98
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Why talk about cadence when you can have a really long video piece about Team Sky's portable washing machines? Yeah, that happened.
09-14-18, 11:40 AM
#99
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09-14-18, 01:42 PM
#100
Fredly Fredster
I use most, if not all of my gears on my road bikes... so I'm an anti-masher. Shimano 105, 11-speed.