staehpj1

Because:

1. There are much more recent threads that address similar topics.
2. There have been changes in the opinions of the touring community as a whole in the 9 years since the thread was started.
3. Because people who commented on the threads may well have differing opinions now.
4. Because it is long enough ago that we may not even remember the posting records of the posters.
5. Because models of the gear in question may have changed.
6. Because current opinions based on current practices, models, and technology would be more useful.
7. Because readers are likely to see the posts and think they are current.

When referring to an old thread, I'd rather see a link than see link to it than a response to it.

Clarabelle

+1 I too found this thread pertinent. I guess being ancient is useless....Hmm? I'm ancient so does that mean....???

For what it's worth, I've ridden in some real gully-washers with non-water proof bags which is why I now use Ortliebs.

lanahk

Arkels or Ortliebs? Miller or Bud? Ginger or Mary Ann?

I'm a big fan of waterproof, but I haven't gone on long tours with 4 inches of rain in a day, either. I also like pockets, for convenience. In the end, I bought Ortliebs because I know my stuff won't get wet riding through a stream or a downpour. I can keep my stuff in color-coded bags if I need to find stuff in a hurry.

I makes sense not to put wet stuff in the Ortliebs for very long. It makes sense that wet clothes in a closed bag on a hot day would turn the funk on. I imagine the Arkels would smell the same if you left a bunch of wet in them. Maybe a loosely-packed mesh sack on the rear rack would allow damp gear to dry, or at least not moulder.

brian_rides

this thread is one of the reasons i love this forum so much.
SO MUCH INFORMATION FROM PEOPLE WITH MORE EXPERIENCE THAN ME!
thanks all

fietsbob

Numbers ... I see more Ortlieb users , riding the Pacific Coast, rare to see any Arkels.

aroundoz

I love it when a thread is revived and it is still flows with useful information like this one does. Why start fresh and leave out all of this great stuff? I am sure the OP has his answer but WTH.

I have some Arkel Dolphins. About the same weight as Ortiiebs, has pockets but also metal hooks. I just cant get excited about plastic hooks. That's just me and I know a lot of you have gone farther with Ortliebs than I ever will. Then again, my wife said she is reconsidering a world tour when we retire.

Cyclist0094

I remember this thread from 2004, In August of 2004 I was touring eastern Canada and was on the Quebec-Levis ferry where I had met a Montreal couple who were admiring my old Vaude panniers (same country,material and closure as the Ortlieb Backroller) They said they had Arkels on their recent tour of Ireland where they said it rained everyday and they spent every night drying out their panniers. The Arkels are a much better product today but I still prefer the Vaude and Ortlieb.

BigAura

I've used both and Ortliebs are better IMO. Waterproof IS better. Ortliebs are durable, waterproof, and the attachment system is excellent.

The only Arkel I'd consider today would be the Dry-Lites because they're lightweight.

djb

aura, Ive seen these Arkel models in stores and was impressed by how well made they seem, very tough seeming material

https://www.arkel-od.com/en/orca-45-...-panniers.html

they use the hook system which may be convienent for folks using diff bikes and diff rear racks, so no adjusting stuff like with Ortliebs.
these are a bit heavy I find though, but all in all seem like very high quality panniers. I'm an Ortlieb user, but this arkel model and others are fully waterproof and will last a long time also if taken care of properly.

BigAura

I do like that Arkel's designs have moved more toward waterproof. I also agree that their build-quality is top-notch. They are a great competitor to Ortlieb...BUT for the moment I'm still in the Ortlieb camp.

boomhauer

Thanks to a suggestion on this forum I've recently washed clothes in one Ortieb pannier and used another as a beer cooler with ice. I can't believe I've waited all these decades to buy some.

nun

The Arkels mentioned here are seriously heavy.....and old fashioned IMHO. Things have moved on and Arkel now makes the Drylites and there are many non-pannier options for luggage.

DTG

No mention of Axiom? Their new Hydracore panniers are quite nice. I use the p36+ for commuting.

djb

when I have looked at Axioms here, the mounting system doesnt look as tough as Ortliebs, but I do see that they are
Rixen and Kaul brand mounting hardware, which I understand has a very good reputation, so in the end, it seems that there are many good options for waterproof panniers out now, certainly more than when I began looking at Ortliebs about 25 years ago.
So for the consumer, its great to have more quality choices.

Robert C

The only complaints I have with my Ortliebs is that the plastic latches don't hold up. However, I suspect that is the same with any brand that uses that style of latch.

djb

which ones specifically? And on what model?

Robert C

I have had them fail on the back rollers and the old style briefcase. Do keep in mind, I use my bike, and bags, for commuting as well as touring. They get used every day and in all types of weather.

I don't suspect that normal riders would ever have the same troubles that I have seen.

79pmooney

In 2004 when this thread started, my Ortleibs had 5 years on them. I bought new ones in 2010, reset the originals to be rear panniers and retired them to farmers market and touring duty. (I'll buy new hooks before I start a tour.)

With the 25 total years of experience with Ortleibs, I have had one failure in the waterproofing - when I stuck a very sharp kitchen knife through. With a standard raft repair, it is as good as new except it rolls up tighter and easier. (Any rafting outfit can tell you exactly how to make a very permanent repair, what you need and where to get it. Same tough fabric, same repair. They make those repairs all the time)

I joke you could use them as waterbags to cross the Sahara. (You would need sturdier hooks. And a really solid rack.)

Ben

djb

Im surprised, as my old pair bought in 1993 are still alive and kicking, used by family members, and the top two closing hook latch system is still perfectly working. I too used them all the time for commuting.

In fact, its this super tough aspect of the ortlieb attachment system that has kept me using ortliebs.
I figure that if there is too much free space between the rack rods and the opening of the hooks, there is a lot of movement when going over bumps, and this can put more forces into the hooks themselves. The inserts do a good job of reducing this space, and I've taken to putting some tape on my racks to further reduce the panniers bouncing up and down a bit, on rough roads I think this is important to make sure less forces go into the pannier hook areas.

gerryl

Arkel - life-time transferable warranty. Ortlieb 5 year non-transferable warranty.

Robert C

Wrong part, I am, talking about the clip that actually holds the bags closed. It isn't a really big deal, I can replace them when they go bad; but that seems like at least once a year for a regularly used bag.

djb

ahh, righto. I had to replace mine on the '93 bags, but that was due to being caught in slammed car doors multiple times over the years (not by me) and they finally cried uncle and one side of the sticky outty parts of the male part got broken --but yes, bought replacement bits at an outdoor store and did it myself.

I honestly can't see why yours break at least once a year, we're talking the male/female bits rights?

for me, they've been as reliable as knapsack/backpack male/female clips, ie without getting crunched in doors or whatever, are long long lasting.

Rob_E

You can't win. Start a new thread and someone says, "Don't you know there are a hundred threads on this topic? Use the Search!" Dig up an old thread, and someone says, "Why did you resurrect that ancient thread?"

Yep. On my annual trip to the music festival it has now become my practice to set up camp and then dump all my clothes out into the tent. Then I put my beer in the Ortleib, and throw a bag of ice in. I usually have another, smaller cooler, too, for things that really can't get warm, but the Ortleib cooler keeps things pretty cool with a bag of ice a day. Then, on the last night of camping, I dump it out and hang it upside down. In the morning it's dry, and I throw the clothes back in. Not sure why others have such a hard time drying theirs out.

36Oly_Rider

Dang man...this just sold me...So, you put detergent in some water, throw in the clothes and ride down the bumpiest road you could find?

I have been looking at panniers for some time and narrowed it down to Back Rollers and Bike Packers...I do like the front pocket on the bike packer, but being in Washington, the back rollers, from what I hear, provide more water resistance...Gosh, just a tough decision these panniers are...

J.Higgins 

Both of course. <<<sh8t-eating grin.

I am sporting Oveja Negra and Revelate bikepacking bags atm because I like aspects of both.