sommers

I am leaving for my cross country trip in 6 weeks and now need to finally buy by panniers. After reading past posts, it appears everbody is in love with Arkel's product. However, with rain bags and a shoulder strap, I am looking at $300. The Orlieb panniers at my lbs are only $140 and people seem to like them as well. I know Orlieb has no pockets, but I do like the idea of not having to cover them every time it rains--I will be riding through Washington State so this is huge consideration. Can anybody out their convince me to spend the extra $150 for the Arkels?

Guest

I have the Arkels, and actually, I am thinking about moving to Ortlieb, precisely for the reasons you stated. I think for people, it's just a matter of preference.

I'll still be using he Arkel handlebar bag, though. That bag is the best!

Koffee

MI_rider

I won't try to convince you but I will offer a few thoughts. You should also know that I have some
Arkel products and really like them so I am biased towards Arkel.

The lack of pockets can be a real pain if you are trying to get access to stuff on quick stops. You end
up having to dig through half your bag to find something you are looking for. The organization pockets
gives you is really great when you are trying to find something quickly.

The other thing is that waterproof is a blessing and a curse. Water stays out but it also stays in. If
it does rain and you get something wet and you put it in the waterproof bag the water is not going to
have a chance to evaporate so it will be wet inside that bag for days. It doesn't seem like a big problem
but even the sweat from a jersey or socks can get everything else damp because the pannier won't
breath. I use a set of Arkel waterproof bags for commuting but I unpack them every night so they do
dry out. I wouldn't want to use them for a multi day trip though.

If you do a search I think there are many threads about waterproof panniers on this forum.

Good luck on your trip.

Steve

drcrash

I'd go with the Ortlieb panniers. Check out www.momovelo.com. Their prices are competitive, and they are currently offering freeing shipping with Ortliebs.

denisegoldberg

I think the Ortlieb panniers are great. Not having to worry about things getting wet is wonderful, and the lack of pockets is not a problem. I used mesh stuff sacks to help organize my gear and could put my hand on anything I needed without any problem.

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www.denisegoldberg.com

Erick L

Personnally, I would never use watertight panniers. If it were such a good idea, every high-end panniers and backpacks would be watertight. Read this.

There are many other panniers that are very good. Don't buy something cheap that has many pockets and zippers, but you can find cheaper ones with less pockets and with a top-loading compartment.

Michel Gagnon

I have Arkels that I like (T-42 in front, GT-54 in rear) and I only have seen the Ortliebs. Erick's comment is a good one. But there are people who minimised these issues by using Arkel's rear panniers (for breathability and pockets) and Ortlieb's front panniers (for things that can't couch water.

travelinhobo

I have Lone Peaks,which run about $150. They are sectional panniers and I love them! The material quality is quite good and they have lasted me for 4 tours and 12,000 miles. I don't understand why nobody ever endorses them. They aren't waterproof, but who cares! I only put my clothes in one section and use a trash liner to line that section. I also buy a waterproof spray for shoes and spray them twice before I leave on my tour. I've rarely had wet clothes.

Merriwether

I prefer the Arkel. The additional pockets-- including one for tent poles and pad, and for a fuel bottle-- are better features than the waterproofing on the Ortleib.

I agree you should get the rain covers for the Arkel, but then, you're right, things start to get pricey. Still, Arkel is what I say.

bentbaggerlen

I have both, Ortleib and Arkel. And yes its true the Ortleibs are more water proof then the Arkels. As long as you don't have to open them when it raining, if you do the rain gets inside and has no place to go so you end up with a case of "swamp bag". The same thing happens with the Arkel bags, but not being as water tight as the Ortleib bags the water will dry out the next dry day.

I stopped using the Ortleib bags due to swamp bag. On a three week tour it rained for the first four days, not a light rain, it was four days of RAIN! There is no way your going to keep the water out of the bags. The fifth day the clouds broke and the sun shined, I forgot all about the water in the bags. And hit the road to make up some miles. I opened the bags that night and everything was still wet, but now after riding in the warm weather everything had a little "funk" to it. It was two more days before I found a laundry so I could wash and dry everything. By that time the funk had grown into a full out stink fest. Dogs would not even chase the bike it was so bad! A bio hazard team followed me into town! It was that bad! And that was with the bags closed. When I opened the bags in the laundry. It was all I could do not to runaway.

The Arkel bags are not watertight, and your stuff will get wet and water will get into the bags. But the Arkels will let your stuff dry out. If there is any thing that must stay dry (Pocket PC, Camera etc.) I put it a zip lock bag along with a few of the little “do not eat bags“ that you find in the boxes. In fact everything gets its own zip lock bag. Unless its wet then it gets stuffed into the mesh pocket on the Arkels so it can dry. The pockets on the Arkel bags are great as long as you can remember what pocket you put it in. And the zip lock bags help to sort everything out. You can use the zip lock bags with the Ortleib bags.

I have used the Arikel bags now for three years and don’t have a single complaint about them. I’m using a set of GT-30s along with a set of TT-84s

I still use the Ortleib bags for running to the store and around town. They still work well and for the most part still water tight.

Both are very good products. But for a longer tour I’ll use the Arkels because they breathe and let things dry out.

sommers

given that I am an unorganized person to begin with, I think the Arkels are the way to go for me. i can just see myself cursing and going crazy trying to find essentials in the Ortiebs. I also don't like the sound of mildue and "swamp bag" if rain should get into them--which is inevitable. as always, thanks to everyone for their input!

Roughstuff

I used Ortliebs on my world tour, as literally a two year rview of the product. Some things you will
never be able to resolve. For example, I hated them having only one big pocket with all the stuff in it. But when I was in Costa Rica, a woman said to me, you know what I like abour ortlieb? I turn them upside down and BOOM! Out comes all my stuff in one big bunch! Still, most people like having separate compartments for tools, doohickies, food, dirty clothes, clean clothes, etc.

Second, they open only at the top. Thus, if you put things on top of your rear rack (I have my sleeping bag, foam pad and tent back there) you cannot access the rear ortliebs easily. Try and put stuff ya need quick and often in the front bags (rain gear for example).

Third, and this has been mentioned before: you do not want to have waterproof panniers. They will not breathe and allow your damp stuff to dry out. I use regular panniers and put my dry stuff in a plastic bag. The wet stuff goes above them in the pannier with a small opening in the double zipper so that they can dry out eventually. With ortlieb this is impossible since the 'roll up' top style will not aerate well. Thus you end up using more plastic bags with ortlieb than with breathables: one bag for your wet stuff so it won't get everything else wet, and one bag with your dry stuff so that it won't get soggy in the moist interior of the pannier. I used Ortlieb once: I will never use them again.

roughstuff

Guest

Ok, I will not be getting Ortliebs. Thanks for everyone pointing out the flaws there. I'll stick with my Arkels.

Koffee

kcaravelli

Although this is a very old thread I really appreciate the helpful dialog here. Very good points to consider. thanks.

slimbo77

I use the Ortliebs. Never had Arkels, so cant comment on them - but here's my thoughts on the Ortliebs.

Mine have been out in some torrential rain, and kept things dry as a bone. Top marks on that score. It is a bit fidly getting in and out of them - but that's down to roll close waterproof closure, which is the reason I bought them.

I've read criticism re: lack of compartments - but I think this just comes down to packing smart. Things you need quick access to go in the bar bag, or a frame bag. Other bulkier items that you may need along the way (a change of top if the weather turns, that sort of thing), I keep in a bag in the top of my right rear pannier (always the right one, so that I never have to try to remember which, then undo the wrong one). Other than that, I have things packed in plastic bags if I need to unpack some things, but not everything. I've never felt the need to have multiple compartments over and above that. Arriving at destination to find dry belongings is definitely more important to me.

As I say - not sure about the Arkels, but would recommend the Ortliebs. I have been happy with them.

cheers
S

fuzz2050

The organizational aspects of Arkels' pockets are overstated quite a bit. If you're the disorderly type, having a lot of pockets won't help you a bit. Take it on my experience; my commuter pannier is all pockets and unless I am very careful to make sure everything goes back into it's proper place (Hint, I'm not) then little things just vanish into one pocket or another, and pulling something out becomes rather time consuming.

If you're organized enough to manage the dozens of Arkel pockets, you can manage a few stuff sacks just as well.

zeppinger

Carradice Super C panniers. Best of both worlds. Cheaper, lighter, has pockets, and just as waterproof as either one.

jeneralist 

Not all Ortliebs are 100% waterproof. I have the Bike Packer Plus, which may have been introduced in the 9 years since this thread got started. Instead of an absolutely waterproof roll-down top, they have a "waterproof in bad rain, but not for being dropped in a lake" closure -- two levels of drawcords to cinch the bag shut, and then a flap-over cover.

I have been able to vent some damp items by leaving the bag cinched only loosely, and having the flap hang loose.

They also have one external pocket each, which I find useful.

fietsbob

By being Sewn together any sewn bag is not water proof. because of the needle holes ..

But Heavy Cotton Canvas as used by Carradice is close as moisture swells the fibers

and a treatment of wax can also be absorbed

I live in a Wet Place, I like MyOrtlieb bags. I can flop my Roller-bags on the Clerk-checkers station ,
and they fill them with Groceries, 1 store gives me a nickel credit per bag for bringing my own bags.

Burton

A few differences between the Arkel GT54's in particular and any Orliebs other than waterproofing. Please note that these are differences and don't make one bag 'better' than the other. 'Better' is determined by which you feel is more suitabe for YOU.

The Arkel GT54 is physically larger and has more capacity. Thats a plus if you need more space than two smaller bags and less space than four. They also weigh more, but the weight of both on a weight per volume basis is equivalent.

The Arkel is a side loading bag while the Orliebs are top loading. That means anything in the main compartment of the Arkel can be easily accessed without digging. If your stuff is well organized that may be incidental.

The Arkel has an internal framework and bottom support that distributes weight more evenly, prevents pannier sag and lets the bag carry heavy articles as well as bulky ones. Perfect if you do grocery runs or actually carry heavy stuff - probably better to take it out if you don't.

The Arkel GT54's have a roll-up internal waterproof compartment/bag. Some people like em - some people rip em out. Likely a heavy duty garbage bag could do the same thing.

The Arkel GT54s have several DETACHABLE outer storage compartments - at least one of which is wearable on a belt. Two options are immediately obvious. If you don't need one - you can leave it at home. Alternatively, a detachable or wearable storage compartment can make managing either toiletries or valuables easier at pitstops.

The usual suggestion is to get all the stuff together you plan on taking, consider how each needs to be packed and accessed, and measure the volume. Pick a bag size that'll work best based on that. Personally I'm not big on riding with two heavy panniers in back. I don't mind big, bulky light panniers in back though - so contents count!

Since my list can vary considerably depending on the time of year, length of trip and destination - I've never found an ideal bag. Which has resulted in my owning four seperate sets of panniers and a number of other bags. YMMV

wahoonc

Different strokes for different folks... I use Ortlieb, Carradice, and Lone Peak. I primarily use the Ortliebs for off road rough stuff touring, Carradice (or Basil) in the cotton duck for day to day use and some shorter tours. I use the Lone Peak for longer over the road tours. YMMV. Each bag has it strengths and weaknesses. If I had to choose a single bag it would probably be the Carradice.

Aaron

robert schlatte

I have Ortliebs and they work for me. I like the waterproof factor. I don't like to worry about things getting wet. True, they are top loaders, they don't have pockets and this can be an inconvenience but stuff sacks can keep things organized and for small thing you don't want to have to dig through pannier for, there is the handlebar bag. I have never used Arkels so I cannot comment but I do know they are more expensive. In my experience all designs have relative benefits and disadvantage but anything can be made to work.

mtnroads

Since I am now living in the Pacific Northwest I purchased some bright yellow Ortliebs rollers (front and rear) and used them on my tour last Fall. I found it very difficult to stay organized and was constantly digging through the bags looking for things. Ugh. Sold them when I got back and will continue to use my Arkel T42 and GT30 (older models) which have enough compartments to help me stay organized. I would never use the largest Arkel bags however as they are very heavy.

staehpj1

Folks tend to go one way or the other on that. I find that for me it is the opposite. I find multiple compartments decidedly less convenient. It is that many more places to have to look for a given item. Space is harder to use efficiently because the pockets tend to not be the right size for a particular category of item. This is especially true for categories that vary in size throughout the trip. I much prefer to organize with ziploc bags or small stuff sacks within one large compartment.

It has become kind of moot for me since, as I have taken less and less stuff, I have abandoned the use of panniers altogether on my recent tours.

Separate issue, but the GT54's seem kind of big for anything short of a tandem team, and one that isn't inclined to pack especially light at that. But again that is a personal preference not shared by all.

BTW: I wish folks wouldn't revive ancient threads like this.

Saddle Up

Really?, why? Why start a new thread when the info within this one is still relavant? I found this thread to be really helpful, still.