prairieboy

This November I will be riding my bicycle from St. Louis, Missouri to Guadalajara, Mexico. I have done extensive touring in both Canada and Mexico, but never in the United States.

I have 2 main questions:

Is it reasonable to assume I could stealth camp with little or no problem for the US leg of the trip?

Any suggested routes to take? Or places to avoid?

I am open to any and all suggestions. Thanks.

DropBarFan

Interesting route; if cheap camping is a priority I'd head west from St Louis & then go south. Out west many more spots to camp legal & free. In the more-populated midwest one would need to be creative to do true stealth I think. IE bivvy in some woods & wake up before dawn; cooking or lights would get you spotted.

Perdido

I thought the same thing but he's leaving in November and the weather will be unreliable in the mountains. If you left earlier, plenty of places to camp out west since it's mostly public lands. You could pick up the Colorado Trail in Denver and then switch to asphalt in Leadville or Buena Vista and shoot down the center of Colorado and New Mexico (Hiway24/285) into Mexico. It would add a lot of miles (and effort since it's mountain riding) but I think it would be a prettier ride.

bikenh

Where is the Katy lovers? Or do I have the wrong state, it's either in MO or KS, whichever. If MO take it west and t hen cut across KS and catch US385 and take it south to Big Bend and cross into Mexico. I know from previous research that there are stretches of US385, 3 back to back where you are 70 miles between towns all the time. Should be plenty of empty roads around there to ride.

Remember when it comes to stealth camping you can still camp out in town you just have to learn to think differently. Your best source for camping are churches. I never ask permission, granted when I pull into town late in the evening no one is around to ask in the first place. Cops won't bother you thanks to separation of church and state...unless a cleaning lady shows up at 3:15AM and sees you there not knowing you were suppose to be there(granted didn't help I just had the rainfly tossed over my body so I pretty much would have looked like a dead body laying there...she called the cops and we all had a good laugh about it). I always try to get a roof over my head for the night, and not a tent roof but a wooden roof and quite often churches provide that for me, or baseball dugouts, park pavilions, even abandoned store fronts/rears when all else fails. Plenty of places to stealth camp and have a nice quite location. Just watch out for railroad tracks.

DropBarFan

Interesting about the church camping: churches are private property but any cop can spotlight the grounds while driving by plus I'd assume most churches have an agreement with cops to let them patrol on church grounds. BTW wouldn't railroad tracks be a good source of stealth camping? Hike a mile away from the road & camp behind some trees; little chance of cops bothering one?

boomhauer

I wonder about the church camping, also. It's so tempting here in the mid west but i'm afraid of little old ladies calling the pastor who then drives by and asks why I'm here.
I've only done it once at a Mormon church on the Navajo reservation. The Mormons showed up first thing in the morning and weren't too happy with me. I never tried it again.
Am I worried about nothing?

bikenh

I fess I don't tour the way most people do. I don't get into the campsite until...generally no earlier than 11PM, and I'm out by sunrise. I don't have to worry about too many people stopping by to bother me.

When you stop and remember separation of church and state the cops are pretty well limited about the reason as to which they can step on church property, generally only if they are called there by the church or a nearby resident. Hence why I camp there.

Railroad companies own everything 50 feet, either either side of the center line or just 50 feet from the center(25 feet both sides). Railroad tracks are still private property. I dealt last year with laying 70 feet or so under two trestles and had a horrible nights sleep as a result of it being a very active line. Railroad tracks are somewhere I prefer to avoid. I would much rather get sleep at a quiet church any night of the year.

wished

I am ordained clergy (Episcopal faith), a bicyclist, and a serious photographer. You are exactly right about churches. Some perspective; churches are private property but police will call if they see something out of the ordinary. It'd no different from a LEO spotting you camping behind Walmart or someplace, they will ask why you are there. I've never had a cyclist ask about camping on our property but we do get some down-on-their-luck folks passing through that will spend the night on the grounds. We have a great relationship with LEO's so If they find them they call me or another clergy member, we're generally OK with it if they clean up their mess when the leave. Most of very good about that, but not all.

As I understand it all RR property in the US is under Federal control, and strictly no trespassing. Some places enforce that more than others. I've had people ask about doing portraits on RR tracks and it's not smart. Hiking up one to camp might be OK, buy much more likely to be hassled for it than camping on church property in my opinion.

prairieboy

Thanks for the advice. I have often been told about churches, especially when I have been in Mexico, but always forget about it as an option. I am taking a bivy and will probably just take 5 minutes to set up and be asleep until sunrise, so it shouldn't be a problem.

I have read lots about the Katy, and will look into route 385.

DropBarFan

Oh well, so much for the RR tracks idea. Kind of a shame considering how much unused land around tracks.

I'm recalling a local tragedy where a cop investigated a woman parked in her car in a church parking lot in the daytime--he asked her a couple of questions & then she started to drive away so he shot her to death. Not that stealth church campers are likely to get killed but it makes one think.

saddlesores

just try asking, not likely to be turned away. i set up the tent on several church
properties and a primary school whilst crossing the us. never considered doing
that without permission, though.

western states have so much blm/forestry land it's hard not to find a place to camp.

in midwestern states you can usually set up for the night at the local lion's club
park. just stop by the sherrif's office or local donut shop and ask permission.
many times they'll open the bathrooms at the park-associated cement pond
for you to shower and micturate.

a little more difficult moving south, in texas for example. you can overnight in
the rest areas (many sleep in cars), but cannot set up a tent. in small towns,
stop at the local diner, someone will tell you where you can set up.

Roughstuff

I date back before the GPS days, I look at maps and "head for the green!" By that I mean forested areas, which are almost always dotted with small state reservations and parks, fishing and hunting access points, rivers and their attendant bridges and shelters, and general superb screening from trees and scrub. In agricultural areas I look for hayfields and areas lying fallow. I ask if I can find the farmhouse but it is not always close or clear who owns what, anyway. As the level of settlement begins to thicken, I often stay at Volunteer fire departments (which are not only mowed but have water and often picnic tables available), police stations and their adjacent property, or small areas of public land. I have camped by railroads and yes, make sure it is not a busy line...but i have never been rousted out. Rights of way for optic cables, or water conduits are not too bad.

I start looking for a place to wild camp as the shadows get long enough for my shadow to completely cross my lane. Riding along I usually am lucky enough to find a place to tuck myself within half an hour or so...the closer we get to sunset, the less picky I become. Often the property behind a diner or convenience store is well taken care of and I often snag a place to camp by promising to have breakfast there the next day! Don't forget you are turning into a vagabond (not to be confused with a vagrant ) and most people have a grudging respect for folks of that sort.

Last year I was on the road for six months from San Diego north to British Columbia and then across the northern tier of the US to the Adirondacks. I paid to stay in a campground or small motel a total of ten times (Some were visits to towns). The rest of the time it was wild camping. East of the 100th meridian (Where humid conditions and private property begins to predominate) I had no more problem finding a place to camp than the rockies or Sierra. Tucked comfortably on a shelf of land above this small station and foodstore, in Michigan. Slept like a baby and had free coffee and sandwiches from the morning crew the next day.

tcarl

I live in St. Louis. Several thoughts. While the weather can't be predicted this far out, in general I consider November to be okay up to around Thanksgiving. That seems to be when the first snow can show up. Early November may be cold or wet, but usually has many good riding days if you're dressed for it (winter clothes). By late November you may have snow or ice. Regarding routes, the very hilly Ozarks are south and southwest of St. Louis. If I was riding toward Mexico from here I'd suggest one of these general routings, described from northernmost to southernmost. 1) Go west out of St. Louis, staying north of the Missouri River - maybe up toward I-70. This route is flatter, but being northernmost may be closer to winter weather sooner. By the time you get to mid or western Missouri you could start dropping more to the southwest. 2) Take the Katy trail west, but in November, if it's been wet/rainy, it could be too soggy to ride by then. Both the Katy and option 1) will swing you around the north edge of the Ozarks and towards the plains sooner, but weather could start getting bad by then. 3) Head southwest from St. Louis down the Route 66 route (along I-44). It's hillier, but not to bad, has service roads along the interstate most of the time and with a good map you can find the "detour" the two places without them. 4) Cross the Mississippi River into Illinois and head south. While slightly longer, it will be flatter, have more lightly traveled back roads, get you around the Ozarks to the east, and get you into warmer weather sooner. By southern Illinois/southeast Missouri cross the Mississsippi again, and head southwest across Arkansas toward northeast Texas.

Squeezebox

Check out adventure cycling association, they set up routes ans sell maps. Their Route 66 should get you from St. Louis to the Southwest USA
Why reinvent the wheel.

indyfabz

As a railroader and a lawyer, I have to say that nothing about the above is correct.


The concept of the separation of church and state concerns government "sponsoring" or "promoting" (for lack of better terms at the moment) religion. It has nothing to do police entering property that is owned by a church.



And railroad rights of way vary widely. They can be as narrow as 15' and as wide as 100' or more. And railroads do not always own the land they occupy. They may only have easements or rights of way in places. The exact nature of their property interest(s) are determined by state law.

mstateglfr 

And this, folks, is how the internet gets filled with all sorts of misinformation.

A police officer can absolutely arrest someone on church property.
A police officer can absolutely drive into a church parking lot at 12midnight because of suspicious activity and question any parties involved.
A suspected criminal cant run into a church and claim sanctuary.


Your claim that the separation of church and state keeps police officers from questioning people on church property is not only wrong, but giving out such incorrect information can be dangerous.

bikenh

They can, but they don't. I had more nights last summer camped out at a church than anywhere else. The only time I saw a cop was when a cleaning lady showed up at 3:15AM and saw me laying outside the church covered up like a dead body. Any other time I never saw hide nor hair of cop cars anywhere around a church. While camping in parks, schools, businesses etc I have always gotten woken up by cops. One business in Yankton, SD last summer I was going to camp out at the nearby church but when I walked out from eating supper I saw the lightning up north and decided to go for somewhere with an overhand and the church I was going to camp at didn't have an overhang. Across the parking lot from the restaurant was an abandoned business with a sweet looking overhang. I decided to go for it. I hadn't even fallen asleep before the police showed up. They didn't kick me out but they sure stopped by to check. I was well hidden to try to keep myself from getting spotted/bothered. Cops don't have the churches on their radar screen like they do parks, schools, fairgrounds and businesses. Unless they get called their they don't show up...at least they haven't to any of the churches I've camped out at in the past several years now. Out of the 3 times I saw cops last year only one was at a church, another at a business and the other getting chased off the MRT down in New Orleans(kinda surprised it happened). I did see someone I'm guessing was cops in a park in PA but they didn't see me so their was no confrontation with them to know for sure if it was cops or not. The park was posted off limits for overnight use admittedly.

I can definitely stand corrected on the RR statement. That is was I had heard. Granted like indyfabz said, it varies from location to location so the area around where my mom lives and they recently shut down numerous RR crossing and improved others it was 50 feet. OOPS on my part. I've slept close enough to several railroad track to know to typically avoid the area anywhere near them unless you know it is an inactive line.

BigAura

There's places to wild-camp all over the US. It's best to route through rural areas and look for green spaces on Googlemaps. US forests & state forests generally allow dispersed camping. That's always my first choice. Secondarily I'll stealth camp in other patches of forest that are not fenced or no-trespassing-signed. Of course I always stay off properties that are inhabited or agricultural. No matter what always practice zero(ish)-impact: overnight only, no fires, no cutting vegetation, and leave nothing. But do note: the technical legality of stealth may vary place to place. Personally I've never had any issues and stealth camped hundreds of nights all over the US.

tcs

November? Wild camping in the countryside? Hunting season.

Coyotes. Less dangerous than rabid skunks. Might investigate the smell of food. If you're lucky, they'll serenade at night.


Feral hogs. If you were heading into bear country to wild camp, some one would warn you about the bears. Okay: Most of your route, and South Texas in particular, has become infested with feral hogs. Occasionally quite large, aggression rare but possible. They won't eat you unless you're already dead, so there's that.

In Texas you can generally assume that 'land' is private property and the default status is 'No Trespassing'.


Trees? Go for the green? From eastern Oklahoma to the mountains of Mexico, there won't be any.


A lot of little towns have a park one can camp in. Oklahoma and Texas have some great state parks.

reed523

I'm in North Central Oklahoma.....weather swings near this latitude in November can be pretty dramatic and get worse the further west you go. Unless you have a high tolerance for cold wind, I suggest you consider riding the Katy and then concentrate on getting south more than west. Once you get into southern Oklahoma and Northern Texas, it should be pretty good weather. Sounds like a great trip...have fun!

PS. If you do end up this far west, I'd be happy to put you up for a day or two. You can find me on Warm Showers.

Robert C

Thanks, I was wondering if anyone was going to clear up the bit of nonsense about, "church and state." If you are about a lot at night, you will notice that, contrary to what some were posting, the police frequently use church parking lots as places to pull in and do paperwork.

axolotl

Do you have to begin in St. Louis? I ask this because a direct route from St. Louis to Guadalajara sounds pretty dull to me. Portions of the former Route 66 that I've been on haven't been particularly interesting either, especially from a landscape point of view. If I wanted to ride to Guadalajara beginning in November, I'd start from southern California and bike down the Baja peninsula, then take the ferry to the Mexican mainland and continue on to Guadalajara.

tcs

St. Louis to Eastern Oklahoma: the Ozark and Ouachita Mountains are beautiful. They offer challenging cycling and large forested tracks for camping.


N. Texas to San Antonio:


https://ridewithgps.com/routes/177984


San Antonio to Corpus Christi:


https://ridewithgps.com/routes/13090208


Hundreds of miles of tiny ~paved~ country roads. The occasional shouldered rural highway. State parks. Small Towns. Not flat, but generally easy cycle touring.


Crossing my route north of San Antonio (in a picturesque, microscopic town on the Guadalupe River called Waring) and heading SW to Del Rio:


https://www.adventurecycling.org/cyc...ier-section-4/

tcs

Route through Eastern Oklahoma:

https://ridewithgps.com/routes/15369700

Get from Clinton MO (end of the Katy) to Baxter Springs, KS & Bob's your uncle.

This would by-pass the Ozarks & Ouachitas, however.

Pellomoco

My plan is to head west Aug 17th from ST. Louis along the Katy trail to Clinton, MO. Then south to the TransAmerican trail (roughly hw 52, hw 94 eventually turning south in Salida, CO; HW 24 to NM.
I agree; Misouri and Kansas is usually mild enough to be called plesant until just before Dec. Thoe still very humid and usually wet. Southern Colorado shouldn't be extremely cold during the day.
I remember a day or two -10c in nov. 2014 but it's rare. Being from Canada I asume you're better equipped for that situation than most. Only in the southern rockies you have the comfort of knowing it's only temporary.