oleg232000

Hello,

I am considering getting into a Ti Road Bike at the moment. It would be my first Titanium bike. So I currently have two options in front of me....

1. A Litespeed Classic with Sachs/Mavic parts components.

or a

2. Lemond Arrivee with mostly Ultegra and Ksyrium wheels

Price is not a determinant cause they are both around a 1K.

Any opinions suggestions?

Litespud

Both nice bikes - IIRC the LeMond has a slightly slacker seat tube angle and longer top tube if that's what you're looking for. The LeMond is probably also a little rarer, but, given that I don't know who built it (pretty sure LeMond didn't), I would tend toward the Litespeed - when it comes to titanium, weld quality is key, so I would go with the manufacturer that has built a stack of Ti frames, and that would be Litespeed (unless Litespeed actually built the LeMond - they built Ti frames for a lot of other manufacturers). How old are these bikes? When I saw "Sachs/Mavic" on the Litespeed, my first thought was "ancient!" but that may not be the case.

oleg232000

The Lemond I believe is a 2003 and from what I could find, it was made by Lemond by hand in the USA according to the catalog i found online.

The Litespeed I believe is a Litespeed Classic from circa 2000, but the color scheme (all yellow with Ti showing on the end of the Seat stays, and the whole chain stay) i cannot find anywhere. But I have seen that particular fork on other models (yellow and black Look), but who knows if it is original or has been changed out. I believe its original cause it matches perfectly. The bike actually has Mavic on the top tube and Mavic on the chainstay. I cant find this particular color scheme anywhere online

Litespud

The yellow/black color of the Look fork was the standard color - I had that exact fork (and color) on a bare Ti Litespeed in the late '90s - I guess it was supposed to go with the big yellow downtube decals. The Litespeed factory paint job left most of the seat- and chain stays bare Ti, but I don't think yellow was a factory color for the Classic, so it sounds like your paint job was aftermarket. But if I was painting my current LS, that's how I'd do it - the bare stays look good. This site has links to original LS catalogs from that era - a fun read if you're a Litespeed fan. Might be able to help you pin down the exact year if you're interested. The 2000's are probably the last of the truly Lynskey-built Litespeeds and IMO they were also the prettiest Litespeeds - for that year they added nice touches like the "L" cutouts on the dropouts and engraved BB shells, and they hadn't yet got into all that "geometrically-enhanced tubing" malarkey and integrated headsets. My 2000 Vortex has some subtly ovalized TT and DT tubing, but otherwise traditional round, and had a proper Chris King headset.
I've seen various stories (all unsubstantiated) about the genesis of Lemond Ti frames. One says that Clark-Kent in CO built the early Lemond Ti's, then production moved to Litespeed and finally (by at least 2002) on to the Trek main factory in WI. By that reckoning, your Lemond is Trek-built. However, I also saw somewhere that higher-end models (Tete de Course and Victoire) were made at Trek using butted 3/2.5, while the Arrivee was built from straight-gauge tubing overseas. I've seen Reynolds and Sandvik tubing mentioned. I'm sure the truth is out there somewhere.
If size isn't as issue and the components are decent (and you can't beat the Ultegra on the Lemond, don't know about the Sachs stuff), I'd go with the Litespeed, simply because you know what you're getting

oleg232000

I really doubt its a custom paint job cause its just waaaay to on point. I wish i could post a pic, but the forum wont let me yet.

Im really torn between the two.

The litespeed has got that old school nostalgic built to last look and feel. But the Lemond is almost mint and has the better components.

Litespud

What do you mean by "on point" re a paint job?
How do they fit? Either one would be a good frame (my Litespeed bias notwithstanding), the Lemond would be a good choice either way. Especially if you're not planning on any significant upgrading any time soon, then the quality of the components have to factor in, and as I said, you can't go wrong with Ultegra.

oleg232000

They are both 57cm top tube, but I havent got a chance to ride them yet. Thats next....

oleg232000

I dont know, it looks way too "factory". It would be an amazing aftermarket paint job is all im saying.

Gconan

Thats the way I would go.

MidTNBrad

Here's a picture of the Classic from the 1999 catalog. Yep, I still have it from when I bought my Tuscany new. Looks like for that year yellow wasn't a factory option.

oleg232000

Yeah I looked through all the catalogs as well, and not only does it not have that color scheme, but none of the catalogs in any of the years have an option for a Sachs drivetrain. So im at a loss. Sort of leaning towards the Lemond at this point. I dont want to spend anything on upgrades in the immediate future.

Atlas Shrugged

Not to be negative as both are great looking bikes which would be fun to ride I would approach the carbon forks with some caution. They are 20 years old and you are not aware of any potential damage from previous impacts.

Germanrazor

I have had Litespeed in the past.....forget the model, but it was a great bike. I prefer carbon in the overall scheme of things. Don’t know much about the Lemond model but Litespeed is a safe bet.

Litespud

There's nothing unusual about there not being a Sachs drivetrain option in the catalog. IIRC Litespeed offered component sets built around Campagnolo Record, or Chorus, and Shimano Dura-Ace or Ultegra for frames at that level, but they likely sold as many bare frames as built bikes. People frame-shopping at that level were as likely to want to customize with their preferred component set as to accept the set menu from Litespeed. Most likely someone bought a frame, had it painted a color they liked, and kitted it out with a component set that either (i) they preferred, (2) they could afford, or (3) they pulled off another bike. That's pretty much how I did it - I bought a new LS frameset and kitted it out with the components from my previous bike, making some upgrades in the process. When I bought a higher-end LS after that, again I bought the frameset and transferred the components from the previous LS. Neither of my frameset/component combinations ever appeared in a catalog

Litespud

This is a very good point - at the very least, go over the fork very carefully. At any sign of abuse or damage - cracks, deep scratches etc, strongly consider budgeting for a replacement. I replaced my original CF fork at 13 years because the bike had been involved in a "roof-mounted garage door incident". The bike, attached to the roof rack through the fork, hit the door frame and managed to pull the rack half-off the car. Although the fork looked OK, and suffered no exterior damage, I was concerned that it had been exposed to significant forces for which it hadn't been designed, so I retired it (and, like I said, 13 years old....it owed me nothing). I found an identical NOS replacement on line for a relative bargain (it was NOS, still in the packaging, but >10 years old, after all). The original fork may have been fine, but for peace of mind it was worth it to me to replace it.

oleg232000

OK so now I have a the LiteSpeed classic vs a newer Litespeed Ultimate. The ultimate has the 6/4 tubing and more aggressive geometry? Opinions? The Ultimate has Campy Record 10 speed drive train and Ksyrium wheels. Its 1200 compared to the 1k for the classic, but is it worth it? Also looks in better condition.

RiceAWay

Greg Lemond bikes are absolutely fantastic. Whatever the hell he learned with three Tour de France wins REALLY shows through. Now I'm not familiar with his titanium bike but I have the last version of the Zurich with Reynolds 853 tubing and it weighs the same as my Colnago carbon fiber CLX 3.0 and it doesn't lift the front wheel when you're pushing hard on a steep climb. The steering is absolutely perfect. There is no wobble at the bottom of a steep descent when you go from descent to flat ground.

That being said, since you would be buying used bikes Litespeed is a far better choice. Or a Lynskey. These people have been in the business long enough to know the material better than other people.

And being a Campy rider from the time of downtube shifting I advise Shimano. Shimano engineers are engineers. Campy engineers are artists and there is always a damned brush stroke in the wrong place. I could never get my Campy 10 speed to shift perfectly for more than 2 weeks before you'd have to fiddle with the adjustments. Usually with Shimano you set and forget. SRAM is not something I would recommend. And the Chinese groups are why they refer to things as "Cheap Chinese Garbage". They are still learning groupsets and I'm sure that they'll catch up. But don't get even near that stuff now.

By ALL means be aware that Titanium bikes are flexible. I owned a couple of Colnago Ti frames. One of them was that awful Bititan. The other a more normal bike that was good until it fractured at a weld.

Litespud

Colnago titanium frames were, by all accounts, very flexy and a little fragile. They were one of the Italian bike manufacturers for whom Litespeed didn’t build frames (they did for De Rosa, Basso and Tomassini). Colnago just didn’t have the Ti fabricating/welding experience that Litespeed had, and it showed. My experience with Campagnolo is a little more positive than yours. I’ve had 8sp DT, and 9- and 10sp Ergo, and while the Ergos have needed the occasional tweak, it’s certainly not onerous. My current 10sp (~2000 Chorus) is rock solid, especially after I had the shifters rebuilt earlier this year, and for me at least, the ergonomics of Campagnolo shifters is way superior to Shimano. I do agree with you, though, that Shimano just plain works. I’ve installed a few Shimano systems (8sp something, 9sp Dura-Ace and 9sp XT) and they have been almost spot on right out of the box - they just worked with minimal tweaking or adjusting....of course that’s only to be expected from a soulless machine operating with ruthless efficiency.....like The Spanish Inquisition, or a Cylon 😀.
To the OP, don’t be afraid of Campagnolo - it’s awesome. As for Classic vs Ultimate, it really depends what you want to do with it - they’re different frames for different purposes - if I was heading out for a 50-miler or a century, the Classic without question. The inherent flex of a round-tubed 3/2.5 frame and the comparatively relaxed geometry make for a long-distance cruiser par excellence. However, if I’m blasting around a crit or going out for a fast 25, the Ultimate might be a better bet. It’s stiff and relatively twitchy, with steeper angles and shorter wheelbase - maybe not the ideal ride for a long day in the saddle. AFAIK it has a big 6/4 down tube for stiffness and shaped 3/2.5 everywhere else - more high-tech than the Classic, which makes it a more expensive bike, but not necessarily a better bike - just built for a different purpose - you need to decide what you want out of your bike

oleg232000

So I finally got it. I settled on the Litespeed Classic firstly because it fit the best, it was the most budget friendly, and i believe it was the most unique. I ll post pics soon.

Roadies_Rok

Welcome to the Ti club Brother, you will not regret it. Titanium has a buttery smooth and silky ride that nothing else can match. I just bought a Litespeed Arenberg with the Campy 10-speed Daytona build and as the second Litespeed Ti bike I have owned I find myself wondering "what in the world took me so long to come home?' I'll reach out to you so we can set up a Zoom meeting and I'll give you the secret handshake and sign that the Brotherhood of Ti share.

Maybe we can petition the people who run this site to give us our own Ti section that we can hang out in and swap stories. Post photos and above all enjoy.

Litespud

congrats on your choice - a great frame that’ll literally last you a lifetime if you look after it. Looking forward to pics

MidTNBrad

Welcome to the Litespeed club! Congrats! Let's see some pictures.

oleg232000

The forum wont let me post pics lol

oleg232000

Thar she blows

ridethecliche

It's yellow because it's a neutral support bike? Woah. That's really interesting.

If you feel like throwing more money at it, I'd recommend getting an innicycle headset, getting a modern groupset and bars and riding it till everything falls apart.
Or just ride it like it is for a bit till you feel like doing the above. May not be the worst idea to replace the fork as others have said, but it should be okay if a thorough examination with the bike apart makes it check out.

Congrats!