Tennessee

Here goes.

I hesitated to even post this because I don't want to start a battle here but I am really struggling with this. I am getting a new bike this week and am debating what group to use. I currently have Shimano 105 on my 2000 LeMond Buenos Aires, but just rode a friends bike with all Campagnalo Record and really enjoyed the ride, and the ability to jump multiple gears and trim out the front derailleur to like 4 or 5 positions (can't remember exactly how many positions exactly).

I usually ride between 120 - 150 miles a week and I am going to be participating in my first Road Race this weekend July 3rd. (wish me luck!) My new frame will be in probably Thursday so I won't be using it in this weekend's race but the only thing I really am struggling with is which group to use. I am sort of building my dream bike so I want to make the right decision. My choices are:

1. Campy Record with a Chorus front derailleur and FSA carbon cranks

or

2. Shimano Dura Ace 10 speed

I realize I probably can't go wrong with either choice. They are both great products. But as far as longevity and ease of maintenance which one has a better track record?

BTW, I am getting an Italian bike and I really like the look of the Record stuff. I guess I shouldn't base my decision on looks but it definately is a factor.

galen_52657

Save some money, get the same quality, buy Campy Centaur or Volice 10 speed..and never look back. Campy ergolevers are easily rebuildable. 2 small springs get tired after a few years. You will know when it starts popping out of gear that it is time to replace them. I don't know if anybody can even open up a Shimano lever....

nuovorecord

Sounds like you've already made a choice. To my knowledge, Shimano has practically no ability to be rebuilt. And it will never have the cache' that Campaganolo has, especially if you're building up an Italian frame. If you have the bucks for Record, go for it. I love my Record group. It shifts like a dream and just looks beautiful on my Merckx frame.

I've heard on this forum, and others, that the FSA cranks have some durability issues. You might want to check that out a bit before you invest. If you must have carbon cranks, I'd go with Campy instead of FSA. If cost is an issue, buy a Chorus group instead of Record. It's been upgraded to carbon brake levers and derailleur plate for this year, so you get much of the weight savings of Record with just as much longivity.

Remember, "You wear Shimano out, you wear Campaganolo in."

eortiz

I've used Shimano ever since I rode my bike (Ultegra and Dura-Ace group). I've never tried/used Campy's. But just a small observation is that the integrated shift/brake lever on the Campy is (I think) much thought of since there is no cable exposed. Everything is hidden. Unlike the Shimano where the shift cable is exposed. Just my opinion on each brand. But like you said, you can't make a mistake on any brand. Good luck on your race!

telenick

Definitely a question for those who practice the art of bike wrenching. My gut says you're looking at a "six on one side half a dozen the other". If you're leaning towards Campy, then I suspect you'll end up with that.

Outside of longevity, more LBS carry Shimano than Campy. Something to consider.

jfmckenna

'Full Campy' the words roll off the tounge like melted butter If I could afford it I'd have and Italian frame full campy. A DeRosa was my dream bike but I need the dream job first. Of course then I would'nt have nearly the time to ride

As far as functionality and quality you cannot beat either group set.

khuon

I currently ride Shimano Dura-Ace 9sp. and it's a fine group. I however will be swapping it out for Campy Record and using the Dura-ace on my travel bike. My theory is that it's more likely that bikeshops will stock Shimano parts and I really do like the feel of Campy over Shimano. The levers just seem to fit my hands better.

As far as FSA cranks go, I have the older Carbon Pros (as opposed to the Pro Teams with the full carbon spiders) and have had no durability issues with them. However, I have recently begun lusting after the Stronglight Pulsion carbon cranks and will probably pick that for my upgrade too. I think the Campy carbon cranks are way overpriced and would personally opt for FSA or Stronglights instead.

SchreiberBike

I'm sure you would be happy with either one. Most of the reasons to prefer one over the other are emotional, but emotional reasons are still important.

The only place where there is any functional difference is how the levers fit your hand. Different people have different personal preferences. Hold one and see.

Tennessee

Thanks for all the info.

I'll definately ask the guys at my LBS about the durability of the FSA cranks. Those Stronglights look pretty tough but the bike shop I go to carries the full line of FSA stuff so I'll probably go with FSA.

I have heard from more than one person that Campy stuff gets better and smoother the more you ride them, where the Dura Ace stuff will be very smooth at first and seem to wear out after a while. I also like that Campagnalo stuff is rebuildable. I'll probably go that route. Maybe I'll ask how much $$$ I will save by going with Chorus but if it isn't that much I'll probably stick with Record.

I can't wait!!!

coolcamden

I am also building my dream bike. Bought a De Rosa frame and have been struggling with the choice of the grouping. A guy to me that using Shimano on an Italian frame is like putting ketchup on sushi.
I think 2004 Record is about $400 more than Chorus. If you are building a dream bike, and have spent a couple of thousand dollars on the frame, might as well pay the difference and get the best.

tourist

I was recently faced with a nearly identical choice. First good luck in your race. Second I went with full Chorus and the FSA's. The only thing about Campy that was a downer for me were the cranks. Square spindle is definitely old tech, functional, but not as good as ISIS, IMO. The rebuild side of Campy is big. This will be my first Campy bike.
Lastly, the bike is Italian, you've gotta go Campy.

jfmckenna

I took a test ride on a DeRosa w/ Ultegra. Aside from the chain ring needing to be alligned it felt pretty nice. But I kinda had a warped sense of the clash of two worlds, purely psycology on my part but it just did'nt seem rite This mind you was a lower end DeRosa frame so it seemed ok but Shimano on a hi end DeRosa is definatly catsup on sushi (nice one their)

oneradtec

Love my Dura Ace....but I've never seriously ridden Campy. Love my Dura Ace 4 sure!!!

Flea77

heh, a chance to get everyone screaming at me, I cant pass it up :-) Personally I prefer Shimano to Campy. Admittedly the Campy Records are cool looking but I absolutely hate the shifting setup. I mean think about it, Record uses the same shifting setup (thumbs for one direction, brake levers for the other) as Shimano's Sora (bottom of the line).

I am sure you will be quite happy with either, but make absolutely sure you perfer one type of shifting over the other. For me, thumb shifting is definately out, I just cant stand it. But that is me, you may be the opposite.

Any BTW, just ignore the people who scream about Shimano on Italian/French/Etc frames (Campy has some Jap parts too!). Use what YOU like and everyone else can just deal with it :-) Hmmm, Dura Ace STIs with carbon Record derailleurs and brakes, now THAT is interesting!

astrocub

about 2 months ago, i had this same decision on my hands. i ended up picking
DA 10spd over Campy Record. while campy can be rebuilt, i was swayed by my
preference towards the feel of the STI shifters and to the inertia that i have with
shimano components -- i wanted to still use my old wheels with ultegra hubs.

as far as looks go, i greatly prefer campy record shifters. why does shimano keep
the damn derailleur cables sproating out of the STI hoods? shimano needs to make
like campy and route the cables along the handlebars. it makes for a much cleaner
setup.

BikeInMN

I have both a Record 10 with FSA Superlight carbon cranks and a Dura Ace bike with the new 10 speed crankset (although the rest of the DA kit is 9).

The Record is what I race. I've raced Record for a number of years and it's what I really like when push comes to shove. I love the way it feels and the Ergo levers just feel right to me. It's light, trick and very pimpy with all the carbon. Add in the Zipp 303 tubbies I race on and the whole bike weighs just over 15 pounds with pedals. The FSA Superlights are ok but their just cranks and I don't think I'd pay retail for them although the look really cool. I guess I really just prefer regular old alloy Record cranks.

The DA is maybe a bit smoother and the new front crank/chainring combo is the best shifting and stiffest front end I've ever used. It's on my training bike which I run a Powertap on and have found that the 9 speed DA cassette to work best for that application. If someone told me I could only run the new DA10 and that was that, I probably wouldn't be too bummed out.

If I were building a dream bike, and I have a few times, I'd go straight for the Campy but that's just me.


Either way you're getting really nice stuff that will last for years.

redfooj

campy hoods look better

khuon

The Ergo setup is much different from the Sora setup. Yes, they both use thumbshifters but the similarity ends there.

1. The Ergo thumbshifters are set further back allowing you to reach them from the drops. I do not know of anyone who has fingers long enough to reach the Sora thumbshifters from the drops.
2. The Ergo shift lever is placed in the same position as the Shimano STI secondary levers on the Tiagra and above shifters and the brake lever is independent and does not swing from side to side as with Shimano.
3. The shift levers also can move back and forth independent of the brake levers to accomodate reach. Actually the whole system's position is designed with a shorter reach than Shimano.
4. The Ergo's left shifter has many more trim positions than Shimano STI. And Sora I believe has no trim positions at all.
5. Also with Ergo, you can trim the front derailleur in both directions while with Shimano, you can only reliably trim in the downwards direction.

I'm not saying one is better than the other. I know which one I personally prefer however. I can live with one or the other and I find my Dura-Ace STI shifters to work quite fine. I just happen to also like the way Campy works better.


... and wouldn't work very well as the index spacing is different. You can however run a Dura-Ace front derailleur with Campy Ergos. Running Record brakes with Dura-Ace wouldn't work too well either as the brake release on Campy equipment is built into the levers and not the calipers.

seely

Just for the record (no campy pun intended) I'm pretty sure the '04 Dura Ace is rebuildable... or maybe it was the '05 thats going to be... eh I don't remember now.

tourist

'04 isn't. Maybe for '05. I haven't that.

OneTinSloth

i'm gonna say that the index spacing is in the shifters and not in the derailleurs. where one might run into problems with a hybrid setup like that is with the spring tension in the derailleurs, specifically, the rear derailleur. i have only experienced trying to make shimano deore thumbshifters work with suntour derailleurs, and i have to say, the spring tension in a suntour RD is so much higher than a shimano is. i needed two hands to shift the RD with the shimano shifter. suntour shifters work just fine with shimano derailleurs though...

you could probably mix campy derailleurs with shimano shifters, but you'd have to use campy cogs spaced like a shimano cassette, i believe, due to the chain width? and you might have to replace the springs in the derailleurs, at which point, you or the mechanic working on it for you will want to throw the whole mess across the room and pull out your/his hair.

as far as the brakes, for all intents and purposes, it would work, but without the quick release, like you said...unless one who was inclined could rig up some sort of cable linkage doohickey (technical term) that would allow for a quick release. or you could maybe do it with 'cross levers installed if you were clever about it...at any rate, i think it would be possible to make it all work, but i don't see how it could possibly ever be worth the trouble.

it's something i might want to do for myself one day, if i have the time and money, to find out for sure if it could be done, but i probably wouldn't want to set up anyone else's bike like that if it turned out to be a severe pain in the ass. if anyone knows for certain, feel free to correct anything that i said...

OneTinSloth

shimano will probably never go back to truly rebuildable components. hell, look at the direction they're taking with cranks. fewer parts. and the whole point behind STIs was to integrate the shifting and braking. it all points to shimano not wanting to take up as much space with spare parts stock. which is totally understandable. you can disassemble STI levers, but getting them back together might prove difficult.

khuon

That was what I was getting at... I however wasn't assuming a Shimano cassette spacing.

OneTinSloth

well, in order for the STI shifters to work cleanly, it'd have to be shimano spacing, i think. then again, since everything is so close together now anyway with 9 and 10 speeds, you could probably mix-n-match cassettes and shifters with no problem...i haven't had much time to play with anything campy, so my experience is somewhat limited. someday though...

khuon

For 9-speed, you can run a Shimano cassette fairly reliably on an otherwise 9-speed Campy drivetrain with Campy Ergos. My mechanic did this with 9sp Record. However, it doesn't seem to work as smoothly the other way around from what I've heard.