CPW

If an LBS doesn't earn your business and/or create value for you, they don't deserve your business or your money. They do deserve to go out of business. If however, you value the benefits of an interactive and informative experience, good repair/tuning service and the convenience of not having to wait for an order to be shipped to you, then find an LBS who does earn your business and support them by paying a fair profit in exchange for the service they provide. If you don't, then they won't be there when you need them and you'll have got what you derserved.
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Actually, I travel 30 mins by car to a shop that gives me value. I give them all the business I can and send others there to help support them. I want them to be there forever. Could I save by buying the same stuff on the web? Sure. But I might also buy the wrong stuff cuz I didn't get good info. I can touch the stuff I do buy before I purchase and have to deal w/ fewer returns and shipping costs. In the end, you don't get something for nothing. If your getting nothing for something, find another LBS or take your chances on the net.

Dchiefransom

There are bad bike shops, just like other bad businesses, everywhere. Do you do your own service? The point most people try to make is that if all the good bike shops go under, then if you don't do all your own repairs, there won't be anyone left to do them. Box your bike up and ship it back to the online store, for that tune-up.
I have several great stores in my area, and Performance and Supergo ARE local LBS's. I buy both online and at the shop. I walk into the shop where I bought my Zurich and a ton of accessories, and the wrench grabs my bike and does whatever it needs. If it's a small problem, he hands it back and looks insulted if I head for the register to pay.
Some bike shops give unpaid seminars.

No Exit

I went to performance as well for my bike. Its a brick and mortar 30 minutes from where i live. I got a good deal from the guys and didnt feel like they were only answering questions to pull money out of my pocket. There are quite a few shops closer but they gave me the "you're not welcome here but your money sure is" vibe so I just passed on them. The difference between Performance and other shops I've seen though is that they have a policy of price matching. The other places closer to where I live look at me like I have four head when I mention internet prices.

As far as repairs go, I wont go back to the LBS for those either... I took my bike in to the closer place for a $75 tune up and they didnt do crap. My bike will go back to performance for things I cant do but I'll be picking up some books and doing my own wrenching from now on.

This is gonna sound a little odd and may not make sense but I dont consider Performance the typical LBS. People say they want to keep their money local so they support their LBS. Performance is a big fat chain, its brick and mortar but their policy's are much like an internet store with the added benefit of being able to touch and see. If you have a problem, you can call customer service or someone over the guy working there. If you have a problem at a small LBS, there's not much you can do other than not shop there.

I never said that no brick and mortar place should ever get your money.. I said that people shouldnt get down on others for not supporting LBSs that dont deserve it or havent filled their needs.

Dchiefransom

That's what your first post DID sound a bit like. My local Performance has gone way downhill, so I just buy stuff there sometimes, but the one in Campbell, Ca is a really great shop. Their only problem is no storage. You have to make an appointment for repairs, then leave it only a day, or pick it up the next morning.

No Exit

I just looked it over and nowhere did I say I was anti-LBS. I just think its crap that people seem to push others to support their LBS. If the shop deserved it, that's one thing but most people dont know how someone elses LBS is before they get down on them for shopping online. People push the "you're gonna need their services one day and you'll be sorry" idea but sometimes dont stop to consider that the current level of service isnt worth it.

I personally dont have a problem with waiting a couple days for things that I've ordered to come in. If I have to put something off for a couple days that's fine... I'll wait. Spare tubes, shorts, bottles... I'll order what I think I'll need and if I forget anything or only have one or two things to buy, I'll go to the LBS, sporting goods store or make another order... not a big deal. If the price is the same its a toss up... if I feel like ordering it to avoid a trip out, that's what I'll do, if I want to get out of the house and see people, I'll go and get the stuff from a shop. Problem is, the closest LBS is a local chain of about 5 or 6 shops... and I dont really like them, at ALL... I wont go there for anything out of principle... so if I want something, i gotta drive 30 minutes and burn 3 gallons of gas round trip. Its hard to say that THAT is a better option than just ordering online since both would ultimately be from Performance anyways.

duhhuh

Just to be sure all the facts are known, I live about 45 minutes from any LBS. I am extremely loyal to a good vendor, and would be sincerely happy to find a place where I am welcome and not just my wallet. In fact I am going to drive about an hour this afternoon to a (Not so) Local Bike Shop to take a look at an Allez. I really want to do business with living, breathing humans, not just a computer. BTW, as a complete noob, what is the opinion of an (plain vanilla) Allez, and what is a fair price for it?

douchebagonwhlz

Dollars and cents, what value is the service.
They don't really like it, but they are usually open to some negotiation at the LBS if you get the right person. They know the net is cheaper. If they want your business, they will work with you. there's usually a markup of like 2x. they buy it for 50, sell it for 100, or maybe less markup on more expensive things.
They'll cave a bit. When you see someone's got something cool on their bike, whre did you get it is usually one of the questions. The Lbs owner wants you to say you got it at his shop. it's the best advertising.

cc_rider

My LBS is Performance. Across the street from where I work. Next to a Subway, so I stop in at lunchtime once a week and find out what accessories are on sale.

But I had them service my bike ONCE and never again. For any work, I go out of my way to a different LBS. I would like to buy the little stuff from them too, but they don't have much selection and even on sale their prices are about the same as Performance's regular prices.

If it's your money, spend it however you like.

dhfd

In the latest issue of Bicycling, it talked about the bikes from the Internet stores; and how the bikes were for the most part; fully assembled, but an LBS could assist if needed, but wouldn't be happy about it. I guess I don't understand this...My solution/suggestion is to then charge a nominal fee for it. Isn't that what they started the business for partly, to make money?

CPW

This is an interesting point. On the surface it seems stupid for them to turn down any work but here's a similar situation:
I work in a motorcycle dealership (Harley) and we have told customers who bring in a tire (usually net or independent shop purchased) and a rim that we won't nount their tire.
Why would we do that?
Well, first of all, we usually have a service backlog; it sometimes takes up to three weeks (not common) to get an appointment. First, it doesn't make sense for us to put more lucrative work off to do work that makes us less money.
Second, when we mount a tire, there is always danger of a rim being damaged/scratched in the tire mounting machine. Without the margin we make on the tire, we don't have enough profit to offset the cost of replacing a customers wheel. Do you know how many tires we'd have to mount to make enough profit to buy a wheel or rim, even at cost?
There is a downside to this policy. You risk alienating your customers by upsetting them when you refuse to do their work. You risk "inviting" them to become someone else's customer by saying no. I'm not sure what our current policy is (we have a new svc mgr) but I think the phenomenon has caused us to reprice our tires. I think we have taken a new marketing strategy since customer's seem so sensitive to tire pricing. We are now using tires more as a loss leader in the hopes to get other work contracted at the time a customer brings their bike in for the tire.
I can certainly understand an LBS refusing to do work on a bike that didn't come from them if their resources are limited. A smart LBS would accept the work and use the opportunity to show why they are a better option for future purchases. A refusal risks seeming vindictive.
JMO,
CPW

operator

Excellent post. So has it worked out? Using tires as a loss leader?

CPW

I'm not sure! Apparently it's caused quite a bit of internal confusion as the standard retail pricing changed at the same time. We also started carrying additional brands of tires (the ones we were most often seeing customers bring in on their own -Metzlers) and we've tried to price those competitively. Bottom line is I don't know how it's working on a dollars and cents basis as it's not my dept and it appears there's lots of variables.
CPW

simplyred

My bike shop just told me to stop thinking about buying another bike [Litespeed] and ride my own because nothing I buy would be exponentionally better than my current ride...

What do you think about that?