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Troll touring / bikepacking

Old 07-03-17, 12:57 AM
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suncruiser
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Troll touring / bikepacking

Has anyone here done any lomger tours on a troll? I'm eyeballing one for Bikepacking and commuting (I dislike narrow tires out here in Arizona, concrete on the canal trails is uneven and larger tires soak that up more comfortably) , but I'm also planning on a 3 month tour in a few years and I'm thinking about using the troll for that task as well. The tour would be mostly unsupported, and I'll have my Bob trailer with me for the duration. My other steed of choice is a Trek 520 disc model. Not planning on riding particularly light, 60lbs of gear on the bike, and the trailer I think holds 70lb.
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Old 07-03-17, 06:50 AM
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The Troll makes a very solid touring bike and I have been completely satisfied with how mine rides with about 45-55lbs of stuff on it with front and rear panniers, with a drybag type thing on top of my rear panniers.
I did a recent trip with it in dropbar mode, but have ridden it with mtb bars and also butterfly/trekking bars as well.
It handles well and the obvious plus to this bike is the ability to put wide tires on it with ample room still for fenders. I had 2in 50mm slicks on it with fenders , and the wider tires work well on bad surfaces due to the lower pressures, and also ride well on loose surfaces (within reason).

when you actually start riding loaded, you may change your mind on 60lbs of load on bike and 70 on a trailer, thats an enormous amount of baggage, but you will have to see for yourself.
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Old 07-03-17, 12:54 PM
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I rode a Long Haul Trucker for several years, and a couple of years ago I switched to a Troll. No complaints at all nor any desire to switch back. I had it in my head that I'd eventually rebuild the Trucker for my pavement-only trips, but I didn't get around to it, and then the frame was destroyed. I can't see buying another one. The Troll handles pavement fine. It's just that it also handles rougher stuff fine, and it can go over terrain that the Trucker would need to be coddled on. Wider tires is a big plus. The big problem I have there is that when commuting, and even when touring at times, I throw my bike on a bus rack. I've found my 2.15" tires fit, but that's about as wide as I can go. That's really plenty for the kind of riding I do, but I have a wide, ET wheelset built up that I don't get to use as often as I'd like because it's too wide for public transportation.

I just spent a couple of weeks riding around Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Maryland with the bike loaded up. Some pavement, some gravel, and a lot of towpath and rail-trails. I couldn't say the weight with any certainty, but I flew out with two bags, each weighing 40+ pounds, which included my bike and all my gear. I'm guessing 30-40 pounds were the bike, 10 was my suitcase which I shipped home, and then I shed a couple of pounds along the way. So maybe 40 pounds of gear, give or take. I wouldn't have minded less gear, but it's not because of how the Troll handled it. The Troll was fine. I am the fat and lazy one.

I also rode it around the canal trails of Phoenix this spring (unloaded) and it was great. Although, to be fair, I think the Trucker would have been fine on them as well. But with the Trucker I would often look for the path of least resistance: Look for the paved route, always find the curb cut, stick to the most level terrain. With the Troll there are a lot more situations where I go the direction I'm going. What looked like an obstacle for the Trucker is more of a speed bump for the Troll, if that.

And what are those rodents living an the eastern end of the canal trail? Someone said they looked like prairie dogs, but I can't find any reference to prairie dogs living near Phoenix.
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Old 07-03-17, 01:44 PM
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Search "I want to see the world" on YouTube and binge watch all the episodes. Iohan abused the sh#t out of his Troll in almost any imaginable scenario, over the course of years of touring. It finally died, but I have no doubts at all about the Troll's tour cred after watching his travels.
Originally Posted by suncruiser
Has anyone here done any lomger tours on a troll? I'm eyeballing one for Bikepacking and commuting (I dislike narrow tires out here in Arizona, concrete on the canal trails is uneven and larger tires soak that up more comfortably) , but I'm also planning on a 3 month tour in a few years and I'm thinking about using the troll for that task as well. The tour would be mostly unsupported, and I'll have my Bob trailer with me for the duration. My other steed of choice is a Trek 520 disc model. Not planning on riding particularly light, 60lbs of gear on the bike, and the trailer I think holds 70lb.
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Old 07-03-17, 06:51 PM
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I'ld love to see your pack list for 60 lbs of stuff.
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Old 07-03-17, 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox
I'ld love to see your pack list for 60 lbs of stuff.
I carry a BBQ and charcoal sometimes and I only just make it to 60lbs with panniers and stuff.
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Old 07-03-17, 07:45 PM
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Have you considered a Giant TOUGHROAD SLR 2.

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/toughroad-slr-2

I bought a Giant ATX lite and had Jones H loop handle bars put on it when they built it. I bought it for commuting and eventually Bike packing and I can't say enough good things about it. I don't know, maybe it's just the handle bars, but I love this bike. I believe the Toughroad is similar, with better components and bigger tires.
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Old 07-03-17, 08:18 PM
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Haven't ridden a Troll but I like the clearance for 75mm/3" tires. My Disc Trucker allows 50mm/2" tires (with fenders) that are usually comfy but still pretty bouncy on rougher surfaces. For bike-packing and/or trailer how about a suspension-fork MTB? Alu etc frame can save weight over steel, susp fork would give a pretty smooth ride even with lighter 50 mm tires.
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Old 07-03-17, 08:20 PM
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Not sure what you mean by "longer tours," but I've done several fully loaded tours on a Troll and more recently, on a World Troller. On my last two trips in Switzerland and California, I ran 26x2" Marathon Supremes and found them to perform well on a wide variety of surfaces. No problem hitting 45+ mph on downhills and reasonably good comfort off road.
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Old 07-03-17, 11:33 PM
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Thanks for the insight guys

My packing list changes bit by bit, 60lbs is my maximum estimate for on the bike, and The trailer is really for souvenirs and things. I'm used to riding heavy (hauled car batteries on the back of my already obese beach cruiser, along with school books and water, probably about 90lbs of cargo on a 58lb bike, admittedly was unstable riding at best, and the only hill on the ride sucked)

Rob E - awesome looking rig! I think I'm getting the ready to ride variant myself, really looking forward to testing out the Extraterrestrial tires.

And you are correct sir. Those Are in fact prairie dogs. They're all over the valley, along with our ground squirrels

Baldilocks - I've looked at the toughroad and a few other aluminum rigs, but honestly, for a touring bike I think I want to stick to steel. Not discrediting the giants, they're great machines (rode my buddies giant around in Seattle when my district was down for service) just not what I'm looking for

Alan S - honestly, longer tour meaning riding AZ-GA-NY-WA-AZ in a long loop around the states. A few years off for me to financially be able to do it and prep myself to be able physically
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Old 07-04-17, 01:18 AM
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The Troll will handle the weight. There are a couple of quirks with it though. Because the new model can take such big tyres there are some compromises with fitting front low riders. The front drop out eyelets are too far inside the outside line of the forks to be useful for mounting a rack. Surly have put a lower rack mount on the front of the fork, up from the drop out. This pushes the rack up and forwards (and also helps it clear the disc brake). With my existing Blackburn rack this meant the CG of the panniers was a fair way forward of the steering axis, so it tended to shimmy a little with low steering inputs. I'm looking at getting a Tubus Duo rack as these seem to have better spacing, the back clip of the pannier is well behind the fork. Fenders are also a bit funny, if you are running 2" tyres you need to space them out so they are closer to the tyres, otherwise there is a massive gap between the fender and the tyre. On the front this means a flat metal dropper from the fork crown hole. With discs you are best mounting the struts off the rack mounts and kinking them around the caliper. But you'll then need to space out the top mounts on the rack to the equivalent thickness of the fender struts.
I've been using Marathon Mondials, which work well as an all round tyre. Even fully loaded I was running them as low as 25psi to get maximum traction up steep gravel pitches, they roll OK on the smooth stuff, but you can hear them whirring. They are at 5000km now and are about 50% worn, with no punctures, so a good life span
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Old 07-04-17, 07:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
With my existing Blackburn rack this meant the CG of the panniers was a fair way forward of the steering axis, so it tended to shimmy a little with low steering inputs.
I have a World Troller and this is my only complaint. There seems to be a lot of "shimmy" with any weight on the front.
This is my first steel framed bike I've ever owned. Maybe that has something to do with it? When I tried my Blackburn rack on the front and had only minimal weight on it. I could shake the handlebars slightly back and forth and this translated into a large shimmy on the front. I then ditched the front rack and instead mounted two large water bottles cages to the forks for my next tour. Same situation. The front was like a wet noodle. I'm not sure if I did anything wrong when putting the bike together to cause this (my first and only headset assembly seemed straight forward enough) but any advice anyone has I would appreciate. Maybe it's just the nature of the bike frame geometry. I have never cut the fork and, in fact, added a fork riser extension to promote my extremely upright posture. I use a jones bar, also.
The bike is super comfortable and I have only been on a few week long tours so far. I would not hesitate to take it on a multi week tour at all.

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Old 07-04-17, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by boomhauer
I have a World Troller and this is my only complaint. There seems to be a lot of "shimmy" with any weight on the front.
This is my first steel framed bike I've ever owned. Maybe that has something to do with it? When I tried my Blackburn rack on the front and had only minimal weight on it. I could shake the handlebars slightly back and forth and this translated into a large shimmy on the front. I then ditched the front rack and instead mounted two large water bottles cages to the forks for my next tour. Same situation. The front was like a wet noodle. I'm not sure if I did anything wrong when putting the bike together to cause this (my first and only headset assembly seemed straight forward enough) but any advice anyone has I would appreciate. Maybe it's just the nature of the bike frame geometry. I have never cut the fork and, in fact, added a fork riser extension to promote my extremely upright posture. I use a jones bar, also.
The bike is super comfortable and I have only been on a few week long tours so far. I would not hesitate to take it on a multi week tour at all.
too many unseen factors involved here to comment. Could be your headset, could be your much higher bars, who knows, could be what you perceive as a shimmy, i honestly cant say and its impossible on the interwebs like this, which Im sure you appreciate.
All I can say is that frame material has nothing to do with how a bike handles, or specifically front end stuff.
All I can say also is that my Troll with a reasonable front load and rear also, handles better around corners than any touring bike I have owned. It is stable at 5kph or 70kph, and any slight shimmy I felt wouild go away with a slight back and forth dropbar motion on my part.
My front rack is a tubus tara, and I had a handlebar bag on as well, drop bars and a very short stem, like a 50mm I think. Un cut steerer also, bars on top. (but you added a lot more height also)

bottom line, who knows.

ps--other factors--also tires, tire pressures, and the fact that your jones bars will have your weight further back overall.

Last edited by djb; 07-04-17 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 07-04-17, 04:24 PM
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Originally Posted by boomhauer
I have a World Troller and this is my only complaint. There seems to be a lot of "shimmy" with any weight on the front.
This is my first steel framed bike I've ever owned. Maybe that has something to do with it? When I tried my Blackburn rack on the front and had only minimal weight on it. I could shake the handlebars slightly back and forth and this translated into a large shimmy on the front. I then ditched the front rack and instead mounted two large water bottles cages to the forks for my next tour. Same situation. The front was like a wet noodle. I'm not sure if I did anything wrong when putting the bike together to cause this (my first and only headset assembly seemed straight forward enough) but any advice anyone has I would appreciate. Maybe it's just the nature of the bike frame geometry. I have never cut the fork and, in fact, added a fork riser extension to promote my extremely upright posture. I use a jones bar, also.
The bike is super comfortable and I have only been on a few week long tours so far. I would not hesitate to take it on a multi week tour at all.
I'm going for weight distribution on the front forks causing it, because my old bike did the same thing with the same racks, just not quite as bad because the lower mounts were behind the axles, andyou can take the front panniers off with the back loaded and it stops. I think any weight on the front forks needs to as far back as it can, so the CG is over or behind the contact patch. I'd like to solve it, so I'll do some experimentation.
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Old 07-05-17, 09:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
I'm going for weight distribution on the front forks causing it, because my old bike did the same thing with the same racks, just not quite as bad because the lower mounts were behind the axles, andyou can take the front panniers off with the back loaded and it stops. I think any weight on the front forks needs to as far back as it can, so the CG is over or behind the contact patch. I'd like to solve it, so I'll do some experimentation.
This is correct. Also, "front forks"? Isn't "fork" enough? There's only one on a bike.
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Old 07-05-17, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s
This is correct. Also, "front forks"? Isn't "fork" enough? There's only one on a bike.
not if you have one in your panniers smartass! ;-)
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Old 07-05-17, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
not if you have one in your panniers smartass! ;-)
I also think it sounds a bit strange to refer to your rear saddles, rear seatposts, and front stems, but who am I to say?
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Old 07-05-17, 02:15 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s
I also think it sounds a bit strange to refer to your rear saddles, rear seatposts, and front stems, but who am I to say?
Rear forks are a thing that is said, and has been for years, actually since bicycles started, the first bikes had forks front and rear. Can't call rear forks a rear triangle because what of all the folding bikes that don't have one, where would we be?
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Old 07-05-17, 02:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Rear forks are a thing that is said, and has been for years, actually since bicycles started, the first bikes had forks front and rear. Can't call rear forks a rear triangle because what of all the folding bikes that don't have one, where would we be?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bicycle_parts
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Old 07-05-17, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s
I also think it sounds a bit strange to refer to your rear saddles, rear seatposts, and front stems, but who am I to say?
Who are you to say?
Why, you are Alan s

Hey wait, even you have too many S's!!!!!!!
I'm all mixed up, are you against too many S's or not?!
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Old 07-05-17, 06:51 PM
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I know that there are those ultra light campers out there that use a spork, or maybe nothing at all to save weight. But I really prefer to bring a spoon and fork for eating utensils. Occasionally one is provided, as in the photo.
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Old 07-05-17, 11:21 PM
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Originally Posted by suncruiser
My packing list changes bit by bit, 60lbs is my maximum estimate for on the bike, and The trailer is really for souvenirs and things.
Alan S - honestly, longer tour meaning riding AZ-GA-NY-WA-AZ in a long loop around the states. A few years off for me to financially be able to do it and prep myself to be able physically
If I'm not mistaken you're talking about max 60 lbs bike luggage + ~13 lbs trailer + <=70 lbs trailer luggage = 143 lbs, going up mountains? If one has stout legs I guess it's feasible.

OTOH if the big tour is a few years away, there might be newer bike models with nice features for this style touring, Maybe we'll see some more American bikes with Pinion P.18--it's heavy but after 100 lbs who's counting plus ultra-wide gear range might help climbing with luggage.
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Old 07-06-17, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan
If I'm not mistaken you're talking about max 60 lbs bike luggage + ~13 lbs trailer + <=70 lbs trailer luggage = 143 lbs, going up mountains? If one has stout legs I guess it's feasible.

OTOH if the big tour is a few years away, there might be newer bike models with nice features for this style touring, Maybe we'll see some more American bikes with Pinion P.18--it's heavy but after 100 lbs who's counting plus ultra-wide gear range might help climbing with luggage.
that's exactly what I'm talking about, though looking at my tire choices for what I want (want to stay 26x2.5 with fenders on it) and decently quick on the road without losing the ability to head off the beaten path w/o walking... there isn't much. Surly' s extraterrestrial is about the best choice there.

I saw the Troll and I like the idea of it, and the strength of a 26 inch wheel is a nice benefit, but I'm also considering a few 700c bikes for this as well

Mostly the Salsa Marrakesh and the Trek 520 disc
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Old 07-06-17, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Rob_E
And what are those rodents living an the eastern end of the canal trail? Someone said they looked like prairie dogs, but I can't find any reference to prairie dogs living near Phoenix.

I remember a trip through Nevada back in high school and I recall seeing something similar. I think someone told me those were some kind of ground squirrel. It was a really long time ago so I can't be sure, and I dunno if the guy was messing with me.


Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I know that there are those ultra light campers out there that use a spork, or maybe nothing at all to save weight. But I really prefer to bring a spoon and fork for eating utensils. Occasionally one is provided, as in the photo.

Long spoon and chopsticks for me.
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Old 07-06-17, 01:39 PM
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Originally Posted by suncruiser
that's exactly what I'm talking about, though looking at my tire choices for what I want (want to stay 26x2.5 with fenders on it) and decently quick on the road without losing the ability to head off the beaten path w/o walking... there isn't much. Surly' s extraterrestrial is about the best choice there.

I saw the Troll and I like the idea of it, and the strength of a 26 inch wheel is a nice benefit, but I'm also considering a few 700c bikes for this as well

Mostly the Salsa Marrakesh and the Trek 520 disc
Check out Schwalbe Big Apple or Big Ben. No knobbies, but I've done a lot of singletrack on my Troll with both, and they're great on pavement.
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