CB HI

Your tone and the response you claim to get from your entire town demonstrates who has over reacted.

RidesaJapanese

You must not be familiar with the small town mentality at its worst, they cannot stand to be questioned by an outsider. What I'm attempting here is no different than what KU Professor of Astronomy and Physics Adrian Melott is doing in Lawrence, KS. Science, logic, and the American Medical Association are on our side, we are opposed by ignorant city officials and the LED lighting industry. I have researched light pollution for two years, what do you know of it?

jon c. 

Indeed, common courtesy goes a long way.

CB HI

Your right, you have so outclassed me with your 2 years of whatever.

Me, I only got my physics degree in 1976 with a reasonable amount of training in astrophysics, optics and many other disciplines. I guess that education does not count since my post graduate work was in nuclear engineering and propulsion.

It seems pretty clear your attitude and self superiority seem to be your real enemy in what you are attempting to accomplish.

RidesaJapanese

And yet you seem incapable of grasping the concept of light pollution.

CB HI

And now you again demonstrate why reasonable citizens ignore you. Have fun with making no progress.

f4rrest

This might help.

RidesaJapanese

Not with the local small town mentality. Sometimes there is only one way to deal with such a situation.

Maelochs

Apparently safety becomes dangerous around post #33.

Milton Keynes

You do realize those are there to prevent aircraft from hitting them, don't you? They didn't put those lights on there just to annoy you. And more than likely they're not LED's.

RidesaJapanese

That is absurd, just how tall do you think a grain silo is? Local wind turbines, which are taller, have blinking red lights for that purpose. These lights are probably meant as work or "insecurity" lights, but they're on from dusk to dawn, and don't even shine don but straight out horizontally. They'd blind any pilot flying low enough to worry about hitting a silo.

Seriously, it astounds me how ignorant people sound when they attempt to defend light pollution or light trespass, especially as only people completely clueless to those concepts would do so.

Ninety5rpm

I get the beef astronomers have with lights, but as a cyclist I don't recall ever noticing man-made light being a problem. The sun? That's another issue.

Milton Keynes

According to FAA regulations, any structure 200' tall or higher must be lighted at night. There's a local grain elevator here which does have a red light at top and I'm sure it's at least 200'. What color are these lights? Are they red?

Seriously, it astounds me how crazy some people can come off because people use lights at night. I'm not a lawyer, but as far as I know there's no law anywhere against "light trespass."

Milton Keynes

Actually I prefer having the streets around town lit up at night. Makes it easier to see possible hazards my paltry headlight might not illuminate.

RidesaJapanese

It's not the use of light that is the problem, it is unneeded lighting that is not being used that is on from dusk to dawn. Light trespass is very real, in some places there are ordinances regarding it, they are based like the AMA recommendations regarding the harmful effects of unshielded LED lighting upon common sense and common courtesy. Both of these virtues are sadly lacking in my area, please view attached photos and you will see what led to me becoming a Dark Sky activist. The second photo shows these lights in the center from across town, certainly shielded fixtures or motion sensors make more sense? And these are not atypical, they are everywhere the city can think to put them.

RidesaJapanese

The problem with street lights, especially unshielded LED ones that exceed 3,000 Kelvins (2,000 Kelvins would be more than ample) is the harmful glare, and the way they light up homes and yards. Properly shielded streetlights would more effectively put light where it belongs, on the street, without the light trespass and glare issues. Numerous communities have demanded the removal of unshielded LED streetlights, due to the intrusive glare, and the AMA has issued an official policy statement recommending they be shielded and less than 3,000 Kelvins due to the harmful effects upon human health and the environment.

So no, Dark Sky advocacy isn't about reverting to candles and oil lamps, it's about responsibly using light to reduce light pollution.

Would you want this outside your home?

Milton Keynes

Honestly it wouldn't bother me any. We have a street light like that on the corner in front of our house. It doesn't bother our sleep because we have window blinds and curtains.

Ninety5rpm

Maybe it's just me, but I'm not sure Dark Sky advocacy belongs in a cycling advocacy forum.

I too like the broad dispersal of light from unshielded LEDs - they illuminate pedestrians on the sidewalk that might step off suddenly, etc. So I don't think Dark Sky advocacy measures like shielding is necessarily helpful for cycling safety either.

SHOW ME THE LIGHT!

RidesaJapanese

Right, people need to stay shut in after dark. Who do they think they are, wanting to enjoy their yard on a summer night, wanting to look up at the drowned out stars?

RidesaJapanese

The subject was bicycle lighting causing glare. There is growing national outrage over vehicle LED headlights blinding oncoming drivers, but as badly as many people might desire to do so, it's unlikely a vehicle will be ran off the road and the drivers face shoved into his glare bomb headlight. Cyclists are however far more vulnerable should they excite such road rage by being a two wheeled glare bomb.

If you think you need unshielded LED street lights to cycle safely at night, it's probably best you just keep yourself inside after dark, behind your blinds and curtains.

Bizman

Ridesajapaneze, I am with you on the light pollution, there are several residences around here that the glare from their dusk to dawn lights is terrible. It ruins the night scape and view of the stars and atmosphere. I agree, a motion light or a band around the light to contain the light into the property. It is very annoying, our twp has rules about this, it looks obvious that they are not enforcing it though.

Jim from Boston

When does safety become dangerous?

Quote:

Originally Posted by RidesaJapanese (post #25)

…And it is a bicycling issue, improper use of LED's will inflict blinding glare into the eyes of oncoming cagers, and other cyclists. I see no reason a cyclist cannot be safe and visible, while not blinding others, it's common courtesy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeyMK (post #7)

...Almost all my cycleways are lit, but there are some areas that aren't, so i need a good headlight. And i have one, a powerful CreeL2 diode behind a huge magnifier, which uses an 8.4v supply.

The problem with these lights is they're not pattern-projected, and at first I got a few hostile signals from people. But even aiming the light down a little,so it illuminates the ground to glare levels, still proves too much for somepeople who continue to raise a hand to their eyes.

We've moved on from candle-light dynamo, but there's an issue, and i think it'll have to be addressed by the manufacturers and users. Or else i suspect it'll be addressed by the authorities.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs (post #34)

Apparently safety becomes dangerous around post #33.

Actually, @Maelochs, I think the cycling safety issue was well stated as of post #25. On my 14 mile-long commute on the well-lit streets of Boston and inner suburbs, there is plenty of pre-dawn and post-dusk ambient street light to see. I have found my moderate Cateye AAA-powered headlight sufficient to be seen, judging from the maneuvers of the oncoming drivers.

On a short segment of darkened bikepath I am occasionally blinded by oncoming cyclists with headlights suitable for riding a mountain bike trail in total darkness. My pupils are already dilated from the darkness of the MUP, exaggerating the danger of the glare. From the thread, "Cyclists and lights"On the other hand, regarding ninjas,I was surprised by one this week on the MUP, who did have a rear red light. I reminded myself that I have to keep my head up looking farther down the road, and always stay to the right, especially when I'm riding on the uphill segment.

Maelochs

Dear Mr. @Jim from Boston: Don't you dare try to drag me into this in a serious way!

To me, most of the "discussions" on certain forums here are people bickering about three or four unrelated ideas ... it is like watching a football game and a baseball game on the same field where a soccer match is taking place. People run around waving their arms because they "scored" or "defended" and no one else is even playing their sport.

Also ... what used to be called "common sense" simply never bothers to attend these "discussions."

Seriously, if people aren't smart enough to use a bike headlight, they Should stay home ... and indoors, and away from sharp objects.

I aim my lights to illuminate what I need to see---which is Not the oncoming driver In The Other Lane trying to cover his eyes. Unless I plan to ride into oncoming traffic ... I sort of prefer to light the far right side of the road and anywhere in the right lane where I might be riding.

If a cyclist on the Far Side of the Road ... across at least two traffic lanes---is getting My light in His or Her eyes ... my light is useless to me. I am not riding on the other side of the road, why would I aim my light there? Why would I am my light five feet in the air, since my bike does not fly?

I usually use lights with adjustable intensity ... it seems obvious to me that if I am riding a well-lit road, wasting battery power is wasting battery power. I guess I am weird, that way. On the other hand, when it is pitch dark, or I am on a road I haven't ridden recently or haven't ever ridden, I want to see every pavement detail, so I don't wreck---which is when max lumens are useful ... glad I didn't waste my battery back on the section brightly lit by streetlights.

For some reason a lot of posters here seem unable to process the information and come up with the same understandings I reach. Oh, well.

As for light pollution ... yeah, it is a real issue. And it has NOTHING to do with bicycle headlights. People who cannot understand that a streetlight is not a bicycle light ... well, electroshock might help .... confinement of that individual would certainly help the rest of us.

All of this... this entire thread ... strikes me as the outcry of people who just aren't happy about life itself.

Yes, folks ... life is full of suffering and injustice. We all see that. Posting on a bicycle forum about garbage like this is Not an effective way to change the world. And frankly, if all you want to do is vent, coming here to vent and then getting caught up in silly debates about sillier subjects isn't working for you either, so maybe ... stop. Find a better way.

Everything mentioned in most of the posts on certain forums ... can be resolved instantly by the slightest rational thought.

Aim your lights. Problem solved. Thank you very much.

Your deeper issues ... sorry. I cannot do therapy for everyone who needs it. I have a hard enough time coping with myself.

Jim from Boston

When does safety become dangerous?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs (post #34)

Apparently safety becomes dangerous around post #33.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jim from Boston

Actually, @Maelochs, I think the cycling safety issue was well stated as of post #25.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maelochs

Dear Mr. @Jim from Boston: Don't you dare try to drag me into this in a serious way!

To me, most of the "discussions" on certain forums here are people bickering about three or four unrelated ideas ... Also ... what used to becalled "common sense" simply never bothers to attend these"discussions." Seriously, if people aren't smart enough to use a bikeheadlight, they Should stay home ... and indoors, and away from sharp objects.

I aim my lights to illuminate what I need to see---which is Not the oncoming driver In The Other Lane trying to cover his eyes. …I usually use lights with adjustable intensity ...it seems obvious to me that if I am riding a well-litroad, wasting battery power is wasting battery power. I guess I am weird, thatway. On the other hand, when it is pitch dark, or I am on a road I haven'tridden recently or haven't ever ridden, I want to see every pavement detail, so I don't wreck---which is when max lumens are useful ... glad I didn't waste mybattery back on the section brightly lit by streetlights.

For some reason a lot of posters here seem unable to process the information and come up with the same understandings I reach. Oh, well.

As for light pollution ... yeah, it is a real issue. And it has NOTHING to do with bicycle headlights….All of this... this entire thread ... strikes me as the outcry of people who just aren't happy about life itself. Yes, folks ...life is full of suffering and injustice. We all see that. Posting on a bicycleforum about garbage like this is Not an effective way to change the world…Find a better way.

Everything mentioned in most of the posts on certain forums ... can be resolved instantly by the slightest rational thought. Aim your lights. Problem solved.Thank you very much. Your deeper issues ... sorry. I cannot do therapy fo reveryone who needs it. I have a hard enough time coping with myself.

Dear Citizen (gender neutral ) @Maelochs,

Thank you for your all-embracing reply apropos to the entire thread. Your sardonic posts seem always to contain an especially catchy line, worthy of a quote.

CB HI

For cyclist riding at night, it is easy to solve the problem of bright lights from other cyclist and motorist, simply wear a helmet with a visor or a cycle/ball cap. Just move your head and you can block out the oncoming light and still see the road/trail.

If you mount your light on your helmet, you can even direct your light to where you need it most at that moment. It even works great for motorist that insist on keeping their brights on; just sweep your light across their windshield and they get the idea to turn off the brights pretty quick.

The lights Ridesajapaneze has posted and claimed are dangerous have never been an issue for me when cycling at night.