Kedosto

Anybody try it?

Been thinkin' about trying a tubeless setup using either the Conti Contact Plus or Schwalbe Marathon Plus. Stan's tubeless goop. Dynaplugs in the saddlebag for backup.

Why? I wanna go fatter and softer (lower PSI) for even more comfort and tubeless is all the rage these days. Maybe a set 42-622 on Velocity Blunt SS rims (30mm wide, 26.6 internal). I know, I know, heavy as all get out. I'm a clyde, so I don't really care.

I figure the Conti's Plus with the tubeless goop is probably overkill, but that's probably gonna be what I need in my neck o' the woods. They hold their own against glass?

Previous experience with Conti's taught me they ride a LOT better than the Specialized Armadillos I'm currently riding. The 'Dillos are fantastic as far as flat protection goes, but ride pretty stiff. I'm ready for something softer.

I have ZERO experience with tubeless. My application is ugly. Think glassy, urban commuting with craptastic asphalt. Puncture protection is far and away the number one priority, but if I can get equal protection with a better ride, well, who wouldn't?

Thoughts?


-Kedosto

HerrKaLeun

As long as the tires are rated as "tubeless ready" by manufacturer I don't see why they wouldn't work.
If they are not rated, it would be a hack with likelihood of problems. So look at the specs.
your rims also play a role. i f rated to be tubeless ready, it should work. If not, it would be a hack.

fietsbob

report back..

DrIsotope

Conti sidewalls will weep sealant for several days before (that is: if) they seal up. Then there's always the risk that they'll either burp or blow off the rims, because they're not tubeless tires. If you want to go tubeless, better to go with a tire made for it, like a 700x40 Maxxis ReFuse TR. Specialized Sawtooth is another, comes in 38 and 42.

tcarl

Make sure the tires are tubeless ready! I know someone who rode tubeless with "non tubeless" tires. Fortunately she wasn't hurt very badly from the crash when her front tire did "burp" (see post above) and come off the rim (at about 18 mph).

HerrKaLeun

from above it sounds like they are not "tubeless". if your goal is more reliability (fewer flats), don't do a hack, it won't create fewer problems. Actual tubeless setup (rated rims and tires) are more reliable, but a ghetto hack is not.

dim

dont ever use clincher tyres as tubeless on road bikes! .... that's dicing with death

you need to get tubeless ready wheels and then you can either use clincher tyres or tubeless tyres

Darth Lefty 

It might work, as long as they're commuter-to-MTB width. They don't have the special bead. But these tires are not the ones that are going to get you a nice ride. Especially not a Marathon Plus.

Tubeless tires are the shiz for goatheads or the little bits of wire that come out of road gators. But they're not going to resist a big glass cut like an armored commuter tire.

There are a few tires that have both commuter features and the tubeless bead. Marathon Supreme and WTB Cruz, probably some others I don't know about

Kedosto

Thanks for the comments.

After doing some homework, I'm not feeling very warm and fuzzy about going tubeless. Without knowing the details, tubeless seems like a great idea. I didn't realize the goop dries up and needs to be changed "every 2-7 months," depending upon conditions. Well heck, I'm not breaking the beads on my current setup every 2-7 months now so how is a tubeless setup any easier to live with? And reasonable riders suggest carrying a tube... just in case. The idea of doing a slimy roadside flat repair for when the system fails doesn't tickle my funny bone either.

Armadillos ride a bit stiff, but they've proven themselves to be the G.O.A.T. for flat protection. I think I'm just gonna go a little wider and even lower PSI to compensate. Not gonna try to fix what ain't broke.

Once again, thanks for the comments. I've come to my senses (for now).


-Kedosto

asmac

I have no expert knowledge but have had a very positive experience setting up tubeless-ready Schwalbe Almotions (https://www.schwalbetires.com/bike_t...athon_Almotion) on not-tubeless-ready Dyad rims. One season and so far so good. The Almotions have extremely low rolling resistance and a high degree of puncture resistance.

I have no doubt that tubeless-ready rims would be a very good idea (I expect they would be much easier to seal -- i.e. not need a blast of air to get things started) but that's not on for me right now.

Overall, it was an easy project and I'm happy with the result.

dim

you dont need to remove the tyre to add sealant .... you remove the valve core with a special tool and add the sealant through the valve .... you only need 30ml every two months (2 tablespoons), and it takes 3 minutes per tyre

superpletch

i am a tubeless advocate. don't let all the naysayers dissuade you, I found it simple to set up, easy to maintain, and only 1 flat in several thousand miles. the flat was a drywall screw entering in the tread area, through tire, and out a second hole in sidewall. If I had more than one C02 cartridge I could have sealed it up and limped home. I always carry a tube with me for the slight possibility that there is a puncture that will not seal. I think that you should choose a tubeless ready tire, but most rims can be converted to tubeless with rim tape, or even a strip of gorilla tape. I have toured tubeless, trained tubeless and run tubeless 700x25c tire on my road bike, they offer lower rolling resistance with much more comfort and traction with unparalleled flat protection. you will always find curmudgeons who hate/fear change and will make you think things will bring the end of the world, give it a try and be patient and you will be rewarded.

dim

from what I have learned .... direct quote from the guy who I bought my tubeless tyres from, and from who I have learned:


https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/blogs/news

Living with tubeless tyres

There is alot of fear about tubeless tyres but in reality they are the easiest tyres to live with. As not all tyres are created equal, tubeless tyre choice is important but the majority of tubeless issues, are user error - simple as that. Below is a guide to avoid user error. I have worked this all out by trail and error (alot of error on my part as well).

First of tubeless tyres should be run with sealant. Some insist on riding without sealant. Riding without sealant can be done on proper UST rims and with a few tubeless tyres, but I would not do it, too much flint in Suffolk to take that risk. There are many brands of sealant, Orange Seal, Stan's no tubes, Effetto mariposo, Zefal, DT Swiss, Schwable even IRC do one. they all work in similar way. The latex is in solution and mixed in are particulates so when you puncture the sealant is forced into the hole and and the particulates fill the hole that the latex sticks to causing a plug to form. Using CO2 on your tubeless tyre with sealant in can cause problems though but it can also be useful to carry too.

Stans for example will turn in a white watery liquid when CO2 is used which is about as useful as chocolate teapot, in fact less useful, I can eat a chocolate teapot. If you use CO2 to inflate tyre just mounted add more sealant through the valve core, the tyre should remain locked to the rim so you can then inflate with a track pump.

Most brand of sealant I have tried do not mix well with CO2.

Of course because CO2 causes the sealant to separate it can actually help seal a hole that wont seal. I have used this trick before then added more sealant when I get back home.

CO2 is particularly useful if your tyre unseat with no pressure in them or unseat with little force. In this case a hand pump is not going to help you. A shot of CO2 will however get the tyre seated and inflated again.

Sealant dries out slowly. It needs to be topped up. I use effetto Mariposo sealent now mainly because with CO2 it does not turn into a watery liquid, the latex will fall out of solution but no water is left meaning when fresh sealant is added it is not diluted. I top up my IRC tyres every 3 months or so, or when I feel it needs it. If I am being honest I normally find out I need to add sealant if I get a puncture that seals only at low pressure. That is the sign I have left it too long. 30ml in a road tyre is sufficent. I drain sealant though the valve core through an open syringe with gravity or inject. I dont bother checking how much sealant is in the tyre normally I just pour some in because I normally leave it long enough there is little in the tyre. you cant over fill the tyre dont worry about that and there is no need to clean old sealant out.

If you keep the sealant topped up you will find it will seal most punctures (if not all) pretty quickly. You can get a fair bit of air loss but even if you drop to 30 psi you can still ride on that. so you can stop and faff with a small pump or continue riding and use a track pump at home. I have done the latter as I dont often have a pump with me I come to that later. This is the problem with 23mm tubeless tyres. The air volume is small and therefore the pressure drop is large before the tyre seals. Bigger tyres can seal at a higher pressure due to the larger air volume. This make larger tubeless tyres more practical. I consider 25mm the minimum size for a tubeless tyre for this reason alone.

Sometimes however the sealant just cant seal the hole. Most of the time that is because there is insufficient sealant in the tyre but sometimes it is because the hole is too big. At this point many people get out that spare tube and faff trying to get the tyre off, fit a tube while getting sealant every. Then swear alot and ruin their thumbs trying to get the tyre back on again. No wonder some give up on tubeless tyres after that. There is a solution though. In my back pocket is Loctite flexible superglue and normally Maxalami tyre worms (there are other brands too). The worms are fibrous strings with tacky butyl rubber that come with an applicator. Before the tyre goes flat you place the worm with the middle in the applicator and shove it into the hole.

The Maxalami kits offer two sizes of worms for different size holes. 1.5mmx5cm worms and 3.5mmx10cm worms. I carry both always. Carry just the small ones and the hole you get maybe too big for one small worm. So it cant hold pressure and blows out. Put the bigger one in and you'll be fine. Make sure the worm is properly inserted and watch the video showing you how. This will plug the hole and the excess worm does not have to be trimmed. The excess will flatten off and disappear into the road with in a few km. Sometimes a worm by itself is not always enough to seal at high pressures (this has been the case when using small worms in big holes). If this is the case get the flexible superglue out. Smear that over the worm and hole. Let it set then inflate. I would be wary about inflating to very high pressure straight away. I would put enough air in to get me home and no more. When you get home you will want to trim the worm if the excess has not gone gone already (or carry nail sicsors) with you.and you can then make sure there is enough glue covering the hole before trying higher pressures. Remember a 25mm tubeless tyre is run at not more than 85 psi anyway.

Worms are a permanent fix.I have ridden for 1000's of km on tyres fixed with them. Likewise I have done 1000's km on tyres fixed with flexible superglue alone.

Sidewall cuts can be dealt with using the flexible superglue or worms. I would try the flexible superglue first on small cuts/holes. you may not be able to hold high pressures but you can get the tyre to hold enough air to get you home. This again is permenant fix I have used this trick one than once. The alternative for bigger sidewall holes is a worm. If the appropriate size and shove it in. A plugged tyre even in the sidewall will be safe to ride in the long run so long as it not bulging. Bulging tyres are compromised and should be retired. If your tyre is bulging after repair and you still have to ride home inflate to a bare minimum pressure 30 to 40 psi and take it easy - this however is not advisable. Bulging tyres should really be ridden at all.

Tubeless tyres can be repaired if they have a butyl or latex lining. IRC's tyres do, many other do not though. If you have a proper lining then you use a inner tube patch and vulcanising rubber glue to seal the inside of the tyre. For tyres without a lining you may need your superglue again to get the patch to stick. You can do this if your plug/superglue fix starts leaking air. There are tubeless patches too. these are often too big for road tyres but are thicker and will reinforce the tyre casing. The tyre has to be removed though so see if the external fix works first.

So what you dont do is fit a tube to fix a puncture issue with tubeless tyres. If you carry a tube ask your self why, the hint is in the name TUBELESS!!!!!

What I carry;

When I am commuting on the commuter bike with two big panniers I have tyre worms, flexible superglue, a pump, CO2 sometimes (depending on the tyre/rim I am using), valve core remover and a 2oz bottle of sealant.

When riding my race bikes I just carry flexible superglue, worms and a pump/CO2 and that's for 200+ mile rides as well. For long TT's I carry nothing mainly because my skin suit has no pockets.

The thing is even if I carry what I do on the commuter bike it still takes up less space than tubes and levers. I do not carry a tube or tyre levers. As far as I am concerned my tubeless tyres once fitted will remain on the wheel until they are worn out, unless I have to patch it which thankfully I have had to do only once.

So I hope that helps answer questions about riding with tubeless tyres. I have given up on clinchers with tubes and won't be switching back.

exmechanic89

Just curious, how is that tubeless tires offer less rolling resistance?

superpletch

physics is not my specialty but every study I have read indicate that tubeless tires offer lower rolling resistance than a typical clincher tire with a tube. from what I gather there is friction between the tube and the clincher tire which increase resistance. also the ability to run lower psi actually lowers resistance unless you are riding on perfectly smooth surfaces. most manufacturers are going to a wider tire on road bikes which allow wider footprint and ability to run lower psi for this reason as well as a more comfortable ride.