Bald Paul

I currently have a 2014 Trek 1.1 H2 I bought on Craigslist. I'm a cardiac patient, and needed slightly lower gearing for the hills (have to watch that heart rate) so I changed the outer chainring from a 50t to 48t (inner ring is still 34t) and went up 2 teeth on the cassette (11-30 vs the original 11-28). It helps, but my HRM alarm still keeps going off on the climbs.

I had a hard time finding parts for the 2 X 8 driveline. Everything now (three years later at the time) has gone to 10 or 11 speeds. I was debating on buying a new bike, but found I would still have to change parts to get the driveline I want, so I was thinking about upgrading the 8 speed to a 10 speed, and installing a sub-compact crankset.

Here's what I'm considering (all within budgetary limits):

Praxis Works Alba 48-32 crankset with M30 bottom bracket
Shimano Ultegra CS-6700 12-30 10 speed cassette
Shimano Tiagra ST-4600 2X10 brifters
Shimano Ultegra CN-6701 chain

Bike currently has Claris front and rear derailleurs, but considering upgrading them to a Tiagra GS medium cage rear, and Tiagra RD-4700 front.

Does anyone see any potential fit / compatibility issues? Anything I should be aware of before pulling the trigger on the components?

wrk101

8 speed stuff hard to find? Its all I use on modern keeper bikes, I have several. A ton of it is out there, new and used. Now I usually pick up my stuff used, from people that have to go to 10 speed, or 11 speed, or whatever, mainly because I am thrifty.

Typically on modern components, you get value up to 105. Above 105, not so much. Starting with a Claris (entry level) bike, you are going to get upgraditis: next comes wheels, bars, derailleurs, etc.

Really, if you want to go that far, just buy another used bike with a better groupset.

Ride less steep grades until you improve your motor, or consider a bike with a triple.


Since you are most challenged by climbs, decreasing the big ring does not help, instead, go smaller on the small ring.

jimc101

Mixing and matching 10 speed is complicated because of compatibility issues, your plan to use a Tiagra rear RD may not work (which one???).

If you want to keep it cheap, why not just get a 8 speed 11-32 cassette, SRAM make these, if you finding 8 speed hard to find, you looking in the wrong place.

Bald Paul

I'd rather not buy used stuff unless I can look it over first. The bike I bought was advertised as "excellent condition" but when I checked it out, I immediately noticed the chain and cassette were worn, and it needed tires and brake pads. I was able to talk the seller down and replaced what was needed.

I changed the outer ring for two reasons: I don't need a 50t with a 11t on the cassette, and by dropping 2 teeth there and going up 2 on the cassette, the chain wrap was unaffected. (34t is the smallest that will fit on the crank with 110 BDC).

Don't really want to go with a triple. Knowing that granny gear is there makes it too easy. Finding another used bike with a 10 speed, and then upgrading that, would cost more than upgrading what I have. Besides, the bike is comfortable to me.

alcjphil

If you plan to use Tiagra 4600 brifters, you cannot use Tiagra 4700 derailleurs, front or rear. For larger cassettes, a Shimano 9 speed rear mountain bike derailleur would work perfectly with a Tiagra 4600 shifter
The only 10 speed shifters that will work with Tiagra 4700 derailleurs are Tiagra 4700

Bald Paul

Well, I've searched the internet and found a new Shimano 8 speed 12-32 cassette. Going the cheap route.

GrainBrain

This seems marginal from your 30t, only 6.5%. Sunrace makes a 12-34 that will give you a 12.5% lower gear over the 30t.

Edit: whoops, looks like you have the 2400 my bad! So it should handle a 32t easy, and I bet a 34t as well.

Good luck!

I tried looking up the specs for the RD-2300, it seems Shimano specs it at 26t max, so you running a 30t is probably as large as you can go. This is a guess, what rear derailleur are you using for sure?

u235

There are a bunch of 8 speed x-32 cassettes. Like mentioned above, a few x-34 from Shimano too (CS-HG41/31 or CS-HG50-8).

cpach

The easiest/cheapest possibility is that your 8 speed road shifters are unofficially compatible with 8 speed mountain rear derailleur. You can fit a cheap Shimano mountain derailleur with a long cage and run a 12-34 cassette.

Also inexpensive is the FSA Vero adventure 46-30 square taper crank.

Kapusta

This^^^

Shimano road and mtb rear derailleurs use the same cable pull.

Get an 8 speed shmano mtb derailleur, and you can probably find a cassette with a 34 t cog.

For what its worth, I would not bother with a new cassette if it is only giving you a 32t over a 30t. That is just not much different. Going from 30t to 34t will feel like about one gear lower.

But if you are trying to keep the HR down, even that is not a huge difference.

Getting a double that takes a smaller small ring is also a good idea, IMO.

bogydave

Doing this for your health means you can spend more $$.

Set it up well, you'll be more motivated to use it .

Couple $hundred, you are worth it !!! ::
You'll
Save tons on medical cost & live longer to make more $$ !!!

Racing Dan

As far as I can see 8sp 11-34 cassettes are available at reasonable cost, 8 speed CS-HG50 11-34. Then you need a new rear DR that can cope with the bigger cassette, for instance RD-R2000-GS. Maybe a fresh cable while you are at it.

If you want to upgrade to 10sp then go all 4700. The 4700 brifters are not compatible with older 10sp stuff. There is a nice CS-HG500 11-34 cassette that you can use with the 4700 GS rear DR and Im betting you can squeeze in a CS-HG50 11-36 as well. Or how about a triple front 30-39-50 and a 11-32 in the back. Imo the 10sp 4700, 8sp R2000 and 9sp R3000 groups are the most flexible in the shimanos road line up, as they all take up to 34t in the back and can be had with a triple indexed front.

Viich

There is loads of new 8sp stuff. I use the sunrace cassettes with 1056 105, I find they shift great.

Microshift and sunrace both make perfectly functional shifters, in addition to Claris.

GrainBrain

Thought I'd chime in with a few more thoughts.

This website is my go to when thinking of gearing: BikeCalc.com - Speed at all Cadences for any Gear and Wheel

The particular link on the website I posted is a calculator for measuring forward speed vs your cadence. From this I see that in 34t x 34t at 50rpm cadence you will be doing 4 mph.

You will see very little change by altering the front rings by only a few teeth. If anything you'd want to go from a 34t to a 30t in the front, and that won't do much.

If you're thinking of going 10 speed I say why not just go the full monty huh? Shimano makes a 11-34 eleven speed cassette that will work with your 8,9,10 speed wheels. Plus, the upgrade price could be justified in your gaining of three cogs, and you will always find a good cadence.

Just a quick look through Jenson USA found these items. Of course you can probably do everything cheaper or maybe spend a slight more for a full groupo.

RD-R8000GS $75
ST-5800 Right shifter $90
HG601 chain $23
CS-8000 11-34t cassette $65 (Excel sports)

Total: $250

The other option to get even crazier is buy a RD-M7000, and an 11-40 cassette. At that point I'd say just walk the bike or go to some kind of electric assist.

Racing Dan

There really isnt much difference between the R8000 11-34 and the HG500 11-34. At least not from a gearing point of view.

HG500 : 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-26-30-34

R8000: 11-13-15-17-19-21-23-25-27-30-34

GrainBrain

I'd agree, heck that cassette is half the price and I've found that two steps between cogs after the 23t is almost annoying.

I did think that tight spacing would be beneficial if you were really trying to keep yourself in a certain cardio range, though at this point I'm being really theoretical about it all and probably just wasting bandwidth

@Bald Paul I hope you keep us updated. I have a slight obsession/sickness/obnoxiousness when it comes to gearing. I'd be interested to know how you monitor yourself, and at what point you begin to hit a red line. If it's at the very end of the climb then maybe the 6.5% drop would be just perfect?

Fwiw I'm the fool that runs a 11-40 1x11 on my mtb for sweet, sweet cadence control. My buddy is going with the 11-46 and I'm eager to try it and note the differences.

Bald Paul

I share your gearing obsession. Constantly printing out gear inch charts for different combinations.

I use a Garmin 520 with a heart rate monitor. I have the alarm set at the BPM recommended by my doc. I'm hoping I can build up some more strength and get him to bump that number up in the future, but for now I'll stay within his limitations.

I ride several different routes locally, but they all seem to include some long, gradual grade that gets steeper right near the end. That's usually when the alarm goes off. I don't want to drop too low on the gearing to make things too easy. I'll change out that cassette and see what happens - but the tinkerer in me still wants to go ahead and do the full 8 speed -> 10 speed conversion. Two more gear selections on the gear charts should get my heart rate to the target zone anyway! :-)

CliffordK

I've been experimenting a bit with gearing on my new utility bike build.

Currently 53/39/30 front, 11/42 rear.

I've been having issues getting everything to work smoothly together, but getting close. I've chosen to go with vintage semi-friction bar end shifters, but someone pointed out that Microshift makes a set of indexed bar-end shifters that would have done what I wanted.

Anyway, I tried my driveway in the 30 front, 42 rear combo. An interesting experience. I found myself furiously spinning on the climb, and was just as winded, if not more as I normally am doing the climb in something more like 42 front, 19 rear. The biggest difference is that I can sit down with the spinning, and get much better traction than I would get standing using the higher gearing. Still, the climb left me panting.

Another thing I realized in my build is that if I went with an ? x 24 front (74 BCD), then I could get very low gearing without nearly as large of a cassette in the rear.

Ahhh, the photos of the Trek 1.1 H2 show a strap-on front derailleur. That allows a lot of flexibility in design and build.

The question, of course, with a utility/touring bike build is dealing with cargo. And, so I anticipate I'll benefit from the lower gears... maybe, and just go slower up the hills. Unfortunately, I may also find myself going slow enough uphill that stability will suffer.

CliffordK

Hmmm... I was going to suggest using different Heart Rate limits when cycling.

However, there does seem to be some association between normal exercise induced V-Tach, and the life threatening V-Fib.

Be careful, and heed your doctor's advice, but also discuss your goals with him.

alcjphil

One thing to keep in mind is that a higher cadence at a given speed in a certain situation may not result in a lower heart rate. Pushing hard on your pedals may not raise your heart rate any more than spinning them faster.

GrainBrain

That's a 54t capacity requirement, how? How are you doing this?

@alcjphil I was thinking this too, at some point there's a balance between spinning out and fatiguing or mashing and fatiguing. Finally experienced a 30t x 28t today on a road bike, it was ridiculous! Can't imagine a 30t x 42t! Of course if you had a load it would maybe make sense - no one ever said "Oh I wish I didn't have this bailout!"

On the mtb I have 29"tires at low pressure, and I'm climbing 15% grades on single track. I've had to walk (well, literally climb) one of the climbs as the 34t x 40t isn't low enough, so even though I'm throwing the body over the bars I still just wheelie or spinout. That's the point I regret not getting a double, or a 11-46t, or a 30t chain ring (which I'm buying this summer!!)

@Bald Paul IMO an extra minute on the climb beats years waiting for a new ticker

CliffordK

I have the RD-M8000 Shadow SGS rear derailleur.

Listed as:
Rear: 11 to 40/42/46
Capacity: 47T

It can easily handle the first ten sprockets, 53/30 to 11/37. I have set my chain short, allowing full range 11-42 with either the 30T or 39T fronts, but short for 53/42T. We'll see if that is a mistake.

My reasoning is that I can generally ride using "ranges", high/medium/low, and then in each range, I'd prefer using the 11T, over more than always using the 42T. This riding style is especially conducive to cargo.

The other option would be adding a double link, I think which should be enough for the 53/42 combination, but would come up long for the 30/11 combination, and possibly also lose the 30/13 combination.

I think modern Shimano derailleurs use 11T jockey wheels. I have a 15T and 17T jockey wheel on order to replace the lower tension pulley with one or the other. It will probably require some minor cage mods, but I'm hoping will give me a moderate increase in derailleur capacity for minimal cost.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-Rea...l/352179186074

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bicycle-17T...s/272832962482

Note, the RD-M8000 limits the shifter choices. But, as mentioned, I'm working to try to get it to mesh with my vintage bar end shifters, and it should also work with the Microshift Mega 11s bar end shifter, as well as using a Wolftooth Tanpan.

GrainBrain

@CliffordK


Awesome, I was hoping for this level of commitment! Never thought of using bigger pulleys.
I was unaware of the sgs m8000. I was wondering if you were using some sort of road link with the newest mountain line. I'd say you might want to try a 50t or 48t chain ring, I don't know anyone actually using the 53x11t combo, that's ridiculous. Maybe crank the heck out of the B screw?

I'd be curious to how the Microshift will work for you, as I was wanting to do drop bars on my mtb and looked at these.

I've read that 11 speed brifters may work as well, but haven't really seen any real world results.

Uh, my apologies for thread jacking!

bogydave

I went from 11x30 to 11x34
Thread link
Just needed it for hills
34x34 is my lowest now.
Not used much now, but now & then it’s nice. Starting my 4th year riding.

Don’t notice much lower heart rate
cause gotta keep spinning
to go fast enough to stay riding,
but it’ll help some.

Ride hard as you can within the
heart rate the doc says. You’ll
get your heart rate down on the
hills with exercise & time.

Ghrumpy

[QUOTE=CliffordK;20176896]I've been experimenting a bit with gearing on my new utility bike build.

Currently 53/39/30 front, 11/42 rear./QUOTE]

I can't imagine needing a 53-11 on a utility bike. Unless you live on top of a mountain. Even then...I can't imagine even needing one on a racing bike unless you're a professional sprinter who gets led out to 40mph before getting released. I'd bet you'll spin faster on your 30-42 than you'll ever get on your 53-11.

Why not a 50t? Seems like that would solve your capacity problems in a stroke. And give you a usable big ring.