Cannot Figure this Fatigue Out
07-02-18, 12:47 PM
#26
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Do you have weekly workout-log? As mentioned, you may be overdoing it, overall and during ride.
- what kind of gears and cadence are you using?
- cut back on high-mileage rides, just once a week, max twice
- one day of sprints, 10-mile warmup, 5-10x high-RPM 100% screaming bloody-murder sprints until you faint, rest 3-7min do another, 20-miles max
- one day of intervals, 10-mile warmup, go at 90-95% of sprint-pace, as fast as you can hold for 1-2 minutes and be completely spent at end. If you can't hold speed for that time, go slower next time. If you still have something left, go faster next time. Do 5x with 3-7min rest in between, then go home. 20-25-miles max
- one day of hillclimb intervals. Find 3-5 mile steady climb and go at steady-pace that'll have you maxed-out in 20-minutes with nothing left to give. Rest on way down, rest some more and do another. 3x total then go home, 20-25 miles max.
- on your ONE day of high-mileage, slow down and work on form. Work on relaxing upper-body, bent elbows, flat-back. No death-grip on bars, should be able to wiggle ALL your fingers. Work on picking easy gears, spinning them smoothly. As mentioned, verify your fit and body-positioning, looking in store windows helps (don't rear-end parked cars). Longest rides should be done at slowest pace. You should never feel tired or fatigued after long ride because it's not about building strength. Muscles shouldn't ever be taxed. These rides are for working neural-muscular coordination and developing your energy-delivery systems.
- TWO days of complete rest per week, doing nothing. Maybe a 5-mile ride at extremely slow 8-10mph pace.
H.I.I.T training will do more for your fitness-improvement and quicker than all those long slow miles.
- what kind of gears and cadence are you using?
- cut back on high-mileage rides, just once a week, max twice
- one day of sprints, 10-mile warmup, 5-10x high-RPM 100% screaming bloody-murder sprints until you faint, rest 3-7min do another, 20-miles max
- one day of intervals, 10-mile warmup, go at 90-95% of sprint-pace, as fast as you can hold for 1-2 minutes and be completely spent at end. If you can't hold speed for that time, go slower next time. If you still have something left, go faster next time. Do 5x with 3-7min rest in between, then go home. 20-25-miles max
- one day of hillclimb intervals. Find 3-5 mile steady climb and go at steady-pace that'll have you maxed-out in 20-minutes with nothing left to give. Rest on way down, rest some more and do another. 3x total then go home, 20-25 miles max.
- on your ONE day of high-mileage, slow down and work on form. Work on relaxing upper-body, bent elbows, flat-back. No death-grip on bars, should be able to wiggle ALL your fingers. Work on picking easy gears, spinning them smoothly. As mentioned, verify your fit and body-positioning, looking in store windows helps (don't rear-end parked cars). Longest rides should be done at slowest pace. You should never feel tired or fatigued after long ride because it's not about building strength. Muscles shouldn't ever be taxed. These rides are for working neural-muscular coordination and developing your energy-delivery systems.
- TWO days of complete rest per week, doing nothing. Maybe a 5-mile ride at extremely slow 8-10mph pace.
H.I.I.T training will do more for your fitness-improvement and quicker than all those long slow miles.
Last edited by DannoXYZ; 07-02-18 at 12:54 PM.
07-02-18, 08:30 PM
#27
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I've been taking my HRV since mid-March. The theory is that you'll have your best workouts when HRV is peaking, but so far I can't tell for sure when that'll be. Of course that may be just me. Chart your HRV next to your daily training stress balance (TSB) and see if it makes any sense. This might want its own thread.
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07-02-18, 08:46 PM
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I've been taking my HRV since mid-March. The theory is that you'll have your best workouts when HRV is peaking, but so far I can't tell for sure when that'll be.
To be honest I find that for regular day-to-day variations, HRV doesn't always tell you much more than resting HR does. Usually if my HRV is depressed, resting HR will be elevated. That's particularly true as an indicator for training-related fatigue. What I've found is that HRV seems to be a little more sensitive to other stresses such as sleep quality, alcohol consumption, tough week at work, impending sickness, etc. (And in the case of sickness it can often be a good indicator of when you're ready to start training again).
07-02-18, 10:57 PM
#29
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For a couple years I've been haphazardly riding and trying to get to my goal: 50mi ride averaging 16mph. I've just recently started looking at more structured training, but figure I will wait until winter since there's so much nice summer right now.
Problem is - I just get so tired after rides and so grumpy that I think my wife is going to take my bike away. For the past few weeks I've been averaging between 4-6hr on the bike with one day devoted to a 40mi ride where I try to keep a pretty high average - which for me is 15-17mph. I'm pretty sure I'm consuming enough carbs/water etc. I usually try to eat the night before good and during the ride will take a few gels - which I realize is probably overkill for 40mi - I just want to be sure my later fatigue isn't carb related. When I've come off the last couple 40mi rides - I'm really depleted. About 20 to 30min after these rides I hit a crazy wall or something and just have to lay down for a little bit.
Yesterday I did the 40mi and was pretty sore. Today I worked out with dumbells in the morning for 45min, light weight. Then after a short nap in the afternoon rode casually to the store and back - about 10mi. Granted it was really hot out - but I drank a whole 24oz bottle of Nuun - average was 13mph. Well for the rest of the day I was a just a tired, cranky ahole. Had to go straight to Starbucks for some iced coffee just to get me through the rest of the day. I just feel I should not be this tired for the expenditure of energy and how focused on nutrition I am.
Other symptoms that probably contribute:
Age late 40s.
Kids wake us up at least once a night.
Lots of family stress.
2cups of coffee in morning - 1cup afternoon.
Might have to give up the bike for a while until I get this figured out
which makes me pretty sad.
Problem is - I just get so tired after rides and so grumpy that I think my wife is going to take my bike away. For the past few weeks I've been averaging between 4-6hr on the bike with one day devoted to a 40mi ride where I try to keep a pretty high average - which for me is 15-17mph. I'm pretty sure I'm consuming enough carbs/water etc. I usually try to eat the night before good and during the ride will take a few gels - which I realize is probably overkill for 40mi - I just want to be sure my later fatigue isn't carb related. When I've come off the last couple 40mi rides - I'm really depleted. About 20 to 30min after these rides I hit a crazy wall or something and just have to lay down for a little bit.
Yesterday I did the 40mi and was pretty sore. Today I worked out with dumbells in the morning for 45min, light weight. Then after a short nap in the afternoon rode casually to the store and back - about 10mi. Granted it was really hot out - but I drank a whole 24oz bottle of Nuun - average was 13mph. Well for the rest of the day I was a just a tired, cranky ahole. Had to go straight to Starbucks for some iced coffee just to get me through the rest of the day. I just feel I should not be this tired for the expenditure of energy and how focused on nutrition I am.
Other symptoms that probably contribute:
Age late 40s.
Kids wake us up at least once a night.
Lots of family stress.
2cups of coffee in morning - 1cup afternoon.
Might have to give up the bike for a while until I get this figured out
which makes me pretty sad.BTW, a "few" gels will do it, but you need one every 20 minutes, by the clock. And recovery carbs after the ride, a bagel and then a meal.
That said, there may be some metabolic issues beyond needing a pack of carbs to be able to get out of your own way.
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07-02-18, 11:02 PM
#30
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I usually agree with Danno, but this time I'm going to come down on the side of mileage. When I was restarting my cycling at 50, an LD racer told me that distance = strength. I took that to heart and it worked. Training to ride century distances+ works like a charm. The 4-6 hour hard ride is a killer workout.
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07-03-18, 12:29 PM
#31
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Yes, in but you cannot do distance with high intensity. Sure, base is good in beginning, but he's doing way too much mileage at too high intensity. Needs to slow down these long rides (and eat), along with cutting back mileage on other days and doing shorter more intense rides.
Also other side of teardowns from workouts is build-up & repair which needs rest. He's not resting enough between workouts to recover. Simplest example is gym workouts, you do upper-body one day, then lower-body another day, etc. so that you give each system time to recover. He's doing whole-body workouts with long-distance AND intensity without enough recovery time. That's the idea behind periodization is to separate into different types of workouts each day of week. If you do two of same ride in a week, you've missed out on a specific system to develop and overtaxing another. Just one long 4-6 hr ride per week is needed.
Also other side of teardowns from workouts is build-up & repair which needs rest. He's not resting enough between workouts to recover. Simplest example is gym workouts, you do upper-body one day, then lower-body another day, etc. so that you give each system time to recover. He's doing whole-body workouts with long-distance AND intensity without enough recovery time. That's the idea behind periodization is to separate into different types of workouts each day of week. If you do two of same ride in a week, you've missed out on a specific system to develop and overtaxing another. Just one long 4-6 hr ride per week is needed.
Last edited by DannoXYZ; 07-03-18 at 12:35 PM.
07-03-18, 06:14 PM
#32
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Yes, in but you cannot do distance with high intensity. Sure, base is good in beginning, but he's doing way too much mileage at too high intensity. Needs to slow down these long rides (and eat), along with cutting back mileage on other days and doing shorter more intense rides.
Also other side of teardowns from workouts is build-up & repair which needs rest. He's not resting enough between workouts to recover. Simplest example is gym workouts, you do upper-body one day, then lower-body another day, etc. so that you give each system time to recover. He's doing whole-body workouts with long-distance AND intensity without enough recovery time. That's the idea behind periodization is to separate into different types of workouts each day of week. If you do two of same ride in a week, you've missed out on a specific system to develop and overtaxing another. Just one long 4-6 hr ride per week is needed.
Also other side of teardowns from workouts is build-up & repair which needs rest. He's not resting enough between workouts to recover. Simplest example is gym workouts, you do upper-body one day, then lower-body another day, etc. so that you give each system time to recover. He's doing whole-body workouts with long-distance AND intensity without enough recovery time. That's the idea behind periodization is to separate into different types of workouts each day of week. If you do two of same ride in a week, you've missed out on a specific system to develop and overtaxing another. Just one long 4-6 hr ride per week is needed.
That was just about the precise training plan of Homeyba, who used to do the 508 and team RAAM events on a tandem. Except his weekend ride was a bit longer and quite a bit more vigorous . . . Very good advice, though.
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10-06-18, 04:21 PM
#33
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Well stress will definitely have a deleterious effect on your energy level. However, without much more detailed information I'd guess its a nutritional deficiency. Even if you don't think your diet have changed radically in recent, your body does often change the way it processes nutrients particularly as we age.
In any event, you can't diagnose this on your own. You really do need to talk about it with your doctor, and at minimal get a complete blood work screening.
In any event, you can't diagnose this on your own. You really do need to talk about it with your doctor, and at minimal get a complete blood work screening.
Last edited by KraneXL; 10-06-18 at 11:44 PM. Reason: clarify
10-08-18, 08:02 AM
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Why wait 'til winter? What are you going to do in the next 6 months?
I'd say get a smart trainer and begin Traditional Base Low Volume asap. After you're done with that, do Sweet Spot Base Low Volume. That'll leave the Build and Specialty phases for the winter.
Ride outdoors once a week.
I'd say get a smart trainer and begin Traditional Base Low Volume asap. After you're done with that, do Sweet Spot Base Low Volume. That'll leave the Build and Specialty phases for the winter.
Ride outdoors once a week.
10-15-18, 04:40 PM
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Proper Nutrition, sleep, rest, and training
In that order, you need to get proper nutrition. It may take a while but a good starting point is 30% protein, 30% fat, and 40% carbohydrates. No sugar, no white carbs except cauliflower, mono saturated fats, and lean proteins. This takes at least three weeks to get adjusted to it.
Sleep at least eight to nine hours a night. The new diet will help.
Get plenty of rest during the day.
Find a coach to give you a training program and have her/him monitor you until you get the feel for it.
This list is in order of importance.
Sleep at least eight to nine hours a night. The new diet will help.
Get plenty of rest during the day.
Find a coach to give you a training program and have her/him monitor you until you get the feel for it.
This list is in order of importance.
10-16-18, 06:30 AM
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I went through something similar. I tested my blood sugar, it was OK. Went to the doctors, everything was OK to very good, no red flags and no answers.
The answer I came up with that I act like a cranky old a-hole after a long ride is because I AM a cranky old a-hole. Riding so far on long rides just made me worse (or better) at it. My ultimate answer was to get an ebike. I live in the Ozarks and the hills just really were killing me. I use the assist mainly on the hills and no longer spin like crazy ascending or have to stop and walk up. It's been a godsend. And when I return home I am usually in a much better mood. Not spinning like crazy up hills and then having to stop and rest makes it much more enjoyable. Even on my 60+ mile rides I have about 25-30% of the battery left when returning home. I just keep it off when not needed. So I am still getting a workout. I've lost about 10 pounds in the last month and a half and rode MORE since getting the ebike than I had the entire year prior.
It worked for me.
The answer I came up with that I act like a cranky old a-hole after a long ride is because I AM a cranky old a-hole. Riding so far on long rides just made me worse (or better) at it. My ultimate answer was to get an ebike. I live in the Ozarks and the hills just really were killing me. I use the assist mainly on the hills and no longer spin like crazy ascending or have to stop and walk up. It's been a godsend. And when I return home I am usually in a much better mood. Not spinning like crazy up hills and then having to stop and rest makes it much more enjoyable. Even on my 60+ mile rides I have about 25-30% of the battery left when returning home. I just keep it off when not needed. So I am still getting a workout. I've lost about 10 pounds in the last month and a half and rode MORE since getting the ebike than I had the entire year prior.
It worked for me.
10-16-18, 08:53 AM
#38
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Something like 3 x 10 at 91% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> 3 x 10 at 100% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> Increase power / Retest ==> Repeat all previous with new FTP ==> Add/replace one day with 4 x 4 at 120% or whatever you can manage for a 4 x 4 which is also a good indicator of your VO2 max, etc. like that.
All the while doing one long ride per week.
It's also easy to decode any plan to remove the fluff.
Whatever you do, don't buy any annual subscriptions.
12-17-18, 10:41 PM
#39
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One more thing, vitamin D deficiency, which is also common, will also cause an increase in fatigue as well as mental fog. I just recently discovered this and getting over that one.
Last edited by KraneXL; 02-20-19 at 10:45 PM. Reason: decrease to increase
02-20-19, 09:42 PM
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Something like 3 x 10 at 91% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> 3 x 10 at 100% FTP ==> 3 x 12 ==> 2 x 20 ==> Increase power / Retest ==> Repeat all previous with new FTP ==> Add/replace one day with 4 x 4 at 120% or whatever you can manage for a 4 x 4 which is also a good indicator of your VO2 max, etc. like that.
.
.
02-21-19, 06:48 AM
#41
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02-21-19, 10:46 AM
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Sounds like way too much stress? Despite the challenges of a wife and family you need to find a way to take a time-out and get some "me time". For a while, my mom worked two jobs and warned us, "wake me up at our peril."
In any event, you can't help your family unless you first help yourself. If you want to be around, figure it out, and do it soon. That, or at least have your insurance paid up.
In any event, you can't help your family unless you first help yourself. If you want to be around, figure it out, and do it soon. That, or at least have your insurance paid up.
