Frame damaged or welding? Trek Émonda ALR 4
#26
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If the bike was subjected to a front end crash, as has been plausibly suggested, the wheel would obviously take the initial impact, which would then be transferred to the fork, then to the frame. Neither of these forces would necessarily result in a visible crack, or scratch.
Because that lump isn't normal. Other guys with the same bike report no similar lump. I pointed out that you can clearly see that the tube edges are at differing angles, and intersect at that lump, implying a bend at that point.
That's because there probably isn't a crack, but a ripple in the tube material. But at some point, I'd say it's likely the paint will fail to adhere and will begin to flake off at that area.
Because that lump isn't normal. Other guys with the same bike report no similar lump. I pointed out that you can clearly see that the tube edges are at differing angles, and intersect at that lump, implying a bend at that point.
That's because there probably isn't a crack, but a ripple in the tube material. But at some point, I'd say it's likely the paint will fail to adhere and will begin to flake off at that area.
#27
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A lack of scratches doesn't mean that there's no structural damage. It's not surprising that the fork blades would still look normal, they've likely got a much higher yield strength than the frame. But it's hard to know by sight that the overall fork (including the steerer) is actually safe, and the stakes are high: that's a seriously deadly spot for a bicycle to fail.
Because it's shaped in a way that it shouldn't be, and which is typical of front-end collision damage. This is what my Emonda ALR frame looks like:
The ripple on your bike is definitely not a weld. The weld at the regular headtube junction is very obvious, and there's no reason for Trek to have built your downtube in two pieces.
Why would you say the frame is damaged?
The ripple on your bike is definitely not a weld. The weld at the regular headtube junction is very obvious, and there's no reason for Trek to have built your downtube in two pieces.
Last edited by HTupolev; 08-11-19 at 03:07 PM.
#28
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A lack of scratches doesn't mean that there's no structural damage. It's not surprising that the fork blades would still look normal, they've likely got a much higher yield strength than the frame. But it's hard to know by sight that the overall fork (including the steerer) is actually safe, and the stakes are high: that's a seriously deadly spot for a bicycle to fail.
You can supply them with more info if you get the exact axle to axle dimension ("J") in addition to your pictures.
Last edited by WizardOfBoz; 08-11-19 at 12:35 PM.
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The frame is damaged because it has a visual indication of a significant front end impact.
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Post 27 shows all you need to know. Your frame has a crease, ripple, dingleberry or whatever where it shouldn't. Get your money back, move on.
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#32
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I think one of my comments may have misled you (that is, I was wrong). Significant structural issues can be hidden by paint, and a deformation of the frame may not disrupt the paint surface. My thinking has changed to where I tend to suspect that there was a bonk to the frame and it put this slight ripple in the frame. And it may have damaged the fork underneath the paint.
I think I'm going back to what I and a lot of others have said: check with Trek.
You can supply them with more info if you get the exact axle to axle dimension ("J") in addition to your pictures.
I think I'm going back to what I and a lot of others have said: check with Trek.
You can supply them with more info if you get the exact axle to axle dimension ("J") in addition to your pictures.
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A lack of scratches doesn't mean that there's no structural damage. It's not surprising that the fork blades would still look normal, they've likely got a much higher yield strength than the frame. But it's hard to know by sight that the overall fork (including the steerer) is actually safe, and the stakes are high: that's a seriously deadly spot for a bicycle to fail.
Because it's shaped in a way that it shouldn't be, and which is typical of front-end collision damage. This is what my Emonda ALR frame looks like:
The ripple on your bike is definitely not a weld. The weld at the regular headtube junction is very obvious, and there's no reason for Trek to have built your downtube in two pieces.
Because it's shaped in a way that it shouldn't be, and which is typical of front-end collision damage. This is what my Emonda ALR frame looks like:
The ripple on your bike is definitely not a weld. The weld at the regular headtube junction is very obvious, and there's no reason for Trek to have built your downtube in two pieces.
#34
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Check the "J" dimension. Check the fork for flex and for any grating sounds.
#36
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It's a tube that failed (partly) in buckling - the result of a lengthwise force that exceeded the capacity of the tube. Like when you press leghtwise on a bathroom paper tube. Trek's Alpha 300 Aluminum is effectively 6061 T6, the T6 part describing the thermal treatment. It does not take plastic deformation well - 6061 is formed in annealed state, then heat-treated, because after heat treatment it gets a lot stiffer but also a lot more brittle and a lot less tolerant to plastic deformation. Long story short - I wouldn't ride it. Unless you already lost all you teeth. I'd certainly use it on a trainer, however.
#37
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And since we agree it was crashed, the next logical question is - how. Car door. How do I know? Been there, done that, got the frame bend. No scratches on the frame.
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It's a tube that failed (partly) in buckling - the result of a lengthwise force that exceeded the capacity of the tube. Like when you press leghtwise on a bathroom paper tube. Trek's Alpha 300 Aluminum is effectively 6061 T6, the T6 part describing the thermal treatment. It does not take plastic deformation well - 6061 is formed in annealed state, then heat-treated, because after heat treatment it gets a lot stiffer but also a lot more brittle and a lot less tolerant to plastic deformation. Long story short - I wouldn't ride it. Unless you already lost all you teeth. I'd certainly use it on a trainer, however.
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Asking to know when and how it will fail is asking the impossible, as is how badly you will be hurt when it does fail. If I were to tell you "it will be OK if you ride gently and only split like a beer can if you hit a pothole," why would you put your trust in some random poster on the internet? It's not fun when you've been cheated out of hard earned cash, but it happens. The only responsible action now is to cut the thing up, recycle if possible. Sorry.
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Asking to know when and how it will fail is asking the impossible, as is how badly you will be hurt when it does fail. If I were to tell you "it will be OK if you ride gently and only split like a beer can if you hit a pothole," why would you put your trust in some random poster on the internet? It's not fun when you've been cheated out of hard earned cash, but it happens. The only responsible action now is to cut the thing up, recycle if possible. Sorry.
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It's a tube that failed (partly) in buckling - the result of a lengthwise force that exceeded the capacity of the tube. Like when you press leghtwise on a bathroom paper tube. Trek's Alpha 300 Aluminum is effectively 6061 T6, the T6 part describing the thermal treatment. It does not take plastic deformation well - 6061 is formed in annealed state, then heat-treated, because after heat treatment it gets a lot stiffer but also a lot more brittle and a lot less tolerant to plastic deformation. Long story short - I wouldn't ride it. Unless you already lost all you teeth. I'd certainly use it on a trainer, however.
the result if it were to happen at speed would be painful
it could ride for years or it could go next ride
So you need to balance How much health insurance do you have and how tolerant to pain are you vs what will it cost to strip the components and find a new frame/fork to put them on
So
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Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
Life is too short not to ride the best bike you have, as much as you can
(looking for Torpado Super light frame/fork or for Raleigh International frame fork 58cm)
#42
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If its eBay you can force a return if the item is damaged and the seller didn't tell you. In fact, if the item is damaged and the seller didn't tell you, you could probably force the issue wrt this being fraud. May not be worth it.
Check the "J" dimension. Check the fork for flex and for any grating sounds.
Check the "J" dimension. Check the fork for flex and for any grating sounds.
#43
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While aluminum frames are less resistant to impact damage than some other materials, I think if this were my bike and my choices were either to ride it or eat it, I'd ride it. Here are my reasons:
1) The fork appears undamaged. (Devil's Advocate mode: a damaged fork could have been replaced.)
2) The "ripple" is somewhat remote from the head tube; I've seen frames damaged by frontal crashes and the wrinkling is usually closer to the head tube.
3) There appears not to be a similar wrinkle in the top tube; I'd expect some damage to both tubes, though I agree this might not happen.
4) The wrinkle is in an easily inspected location. This is the main reason I'd ride it. If the frame began to crack, it would be detectable by running a finger over it. The tube wouldn't go from its present condition to total catastrophic failure in an instant. Even if it did, hypothetically speaking, there would still be the top tube holding the bike together.
That is my $0.25.
Frontal impact damage
1) The fork appears undamaged. (Devil's Advocate mode: a damaged fork could have been replaced.)
2) The "ripple" is somewhat remote from the head tube; I've seen frames damaged by frontal crashes and the wrinkling is usually closer to the head tube.
3) There appears not to be a similar wrinkle in the top tube; I'd expect some damage to both tubes, though I agree this might not happen.
4) The wrinkle is in an easily inspected location. This is the main reason I'd ride it. If the frame began to crack, it would be detectable by running a finger over it. The tube wouldn't go from its present condition to total catastrophic failure in an instant. Even if it did, hypothetically speaking, there would still be the top tube holding the bike together.
That is my $0.25.
Frontal impact damage
Last edited by sweeks; 08-15-19 at 08:57 PM. Reason: found an image
#44
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Do you think it would be worth it to remove the paint and inspect the aluminium for cracks? I guess it could be a better option than throwing it directly in the bin.