Question for you who wax your chain
#126
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Decided to test the bottled solution on a section of chain. This is after the alcohol completely evaporated. Brushing the chain removes the external wax/PTFE dust. When articulating the chain you can feel that the solution did get inside. Obviously not as good as a hot wax, but you can definitely feel the before and after difference.
Question for Dave, what would the wax look like after the naphtha evaporated? As you can see with the alcohol there is nothing besides wax/PTFE residue.
Question for Dave, what would the wax look like after the naphtha evaporated? As you can see with the alcohol there is nothing besides wax/PTFE residue.
#127
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Why does molten say that you can wax 16 chains with a pound? That's a lot less than hundreds. If the product was dissolved in naphtha, you really could get hundreds of applications.
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I was under the impression that MSW was citing chains, not applications, so 16 chain lifetimes.
#130
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Decided to test the bottled solution on a section of chain. This is after the alcohol completely evaporated. Brushing the chain removes the external wax/PTFE dust. When articulating the chain you can feel that the solution did get inside. Obviously not as good as a hot wax, but you can definitely feel the before and after difference.
Question for Dave, what would the wax look like after the naphtha evaporated? As you can see with the alcohol there is nothing besides wax/PTFE residue.
Question for Dave, what would the wax look like after the naphtha evaporated? As you can see with the alcohol there is nothing besides wax/PTFE residue.
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#131
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He gets the same question so often he probably replies to only a few.
He said the oil only attracts grime without adding any benefit.
For now, at least, he's hot on the melted wax and PTFE powder. Until further notice.
Basically he's just rehashing the research done by the folks at Friction Facts/Ceramic Speed a few years ago, and putting it into videos for folks who find it easier to learn from watching than reading.
And in his most recent video he's reinventing Rock 'N' Roll Absolute Dry (which appears to be PTFE power in naptha) and White Lightning Easy Lube (paraffin in naptha), but with the wrong solvent -- he used isopropyl alcohol rather than naptha. He posted tips for making a portable liquefied lube, but it's pointless and less effective than buying readymade stuff. And he says it'll be necessary to strip the chain again if you resume hot waxing.
So I'll just keep using Rock 'N' Roll Absolute Dry when I don't have the time to set up the crock pot for melted paraffin. Since January I've had to have some overdue maintenance done on my apartment, including completely reflooring it, so I put away most of my bike maintenance gear until the work is finished. I tried RnR Absolute Dry and it performs exactly as claimed, good and not-so-good. It's very slick and smooth, not fussy about application, runs cleaner than most wet application lubes (not as clean as hot wax), but does need to be reapplied often and is pricey for what you get -- PTFE in naptha. So I might try homebrewing my own. I already have the PTFE powder. So I might just try adding my own naptha and see how it goes.
The problem I had with White Lightning Easy Lube is most of the wax was wasted and couldn't be recovered, and ended up clogging the chain and cogs with gummy wax boogers. I had to floss the freewheels and cassettes, and ended up tossing out a chain rather than trying to clean each link with a Q-tip or stiff brush.
Reportedly Boeshield T9 is also paraffin in solvent, but it's not naptha and Boeshield doesn't reveal what the solvent is. It's very thin but seems tenacious. It can be applied to run as cleanly as melted wax, but it should be applied to a chain off the bike, wait for the Boeshield to dry, then put the chain on the bike. Too much trouble, so I use the T9 mostly as a penetrating lube for other stuff, like old oxidized cables/housings, derailleurs, etc.
He said the oil only attracts grime without adding any benefit.
For now, at least, he's hot on the melted wax and PTFE powder. Until further notice.
Basically he's just rehashing the research done by the folks at Friction Facts/Ceramic Speed a few years ago, and putting it into videos for folks who find it easier to learn from watching than reading.
And in his most recent video he's reinventing Rock 'N' Roll Absolute Dry (which appears to be PTFE power in naptha) and White Lightning Easy Lube (paraffin in naptha), but with the wrong solvent -- he used isopropyl alcohol rather than naptha. He posted tips for making a portable liquefied lube, but it's pointless and less effective than buying readymade stuff. And he says it'll be necessary to strip the chain again if you resume hot waxing.
So I'll just keep using Rock 'N' Roll Absolute Dry when I don't have the time to set up the crock pot for melted paraffin. Since January I've had to have some overdue maintenance done on my apartment, including completely reflooring it, so I put away most of my bike maintenance gear until the work is finished. I tried RnR Absolute Dry and it performs exactly as claimed, good and not-so-good. It's very slick and smooth, not fussy about application, runs cleaner than most wet application lubes (not as clean as hot wax), but does need to be reapplied often and is pricey for what you get -- PTFE in naptha. So I might try homebrewing my own. I already have the PTFE powder. So I might just try adding my own naptha and see how it goes.
The problem I had with White Lightning Easy Lube is most of the wax was wasted and couldn't be recovered, and ended up clogging the chain and cogs with gummy wax boogers. I had to floss the freewheels and cassettes, and ended up tossing out a chain rather than trying to clean each link with a Q-tip or stiff brush.
Reportedly Boeshield T9 is also paraffin in solvent, but it's not naptha and Boeshield doesn't reveal what the solvent is. It's very thin but seems tenacious. It can be applied to run as cleanly as melted wax, but it should be applied to a chain off the bike, wait for the Boeshield to dry, then put the chain on the bike. Too much trouble, so I use the T9 mostly as a penetrating lube for other stuff, like old oxidized cables/housings, derailleurs, etc.
I understand that oil attracts grime, but I would have liked him to explain why (or if) the new thicker mix is as efficient as the previous one. I did not get this question answered.
Last edited by eduskator; 03-10-20 at 09:09 AM.
#132
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The reason why I asked him was because he said oil was used to make the mix thinner so that more could penetrate inside the chain links, which does make sense. Since oil is no longer used in the new one, and based on his previous statement, it would mean that less liquid wax gets inside the chain links while bathing now, and therefore, it is less lubricated?
Or he was incorrect at that time.
FWIW, my takeaway from the oil/wax ratio video was that he was adjusting it for cooled consistency, not hot viscosity.
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#133
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The paraffin oil added to paraffin wax was done to make the hardened product softer and less likely to flake off quickly. It does nothing to improve the ability of the paraffin to penetrate the chain. Once melted, the paraffin has a very low viscosity. My mix of 1 part heavy duty lubricating oil to 3 parts paraffin, then dissolved in 3-6 parts naphtha penetrates deeply, then dries to make a very effective lube.
I don't understand when someone says that much of the wax in a liquid lube was wasted. Some will always migrate out of the chain and deposit on the sprockets and RD pulleys, whether it's a hot dipped product or liquid. My home made wax lube does this, but a little of the same naphtha used to make the lube cleans it off. I either put a little naphtha on a paper shop towel or a half inch artist's brush to give the sprockets a little cleaning.
I don't understand when someone says that much of the wax in a liquid lube was wasted. Some will always migrate out of the chain and deposit on the sprockets and RD pulleys, whether it's a hot dipped product or liquid. My home made wax lube does this, but a little of the same naphtha used to make the lube cleans it off. I either put a little naphtha on a paper shop towel or a half inch artist's brush to give the sprockets a little cleaning.
#134
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I did ask him a few weeks ago why he had stopped using the 1:1 Wax & Oil mix and opted for the 10:1 Wax & PTFE mix instead, and he only replied that the PTFE replaced the oil (in other words, he did not respond to my question).
In the video (2017 I believe) where he had shared the Wax & Oil mix, I remember he had mentioned that oil was used to make the mix thinner so more could get inside the chain links, so I was kind of confused after reading his response.
Anyways, it seems like the 10:1 Wax & PTFE mix works just fine.
In the video (2017 I believe) where he had shared the Wax & Oil mix, I remember he had mentioned that oil was used to make the mix thinner so more could get inside the chain links, so I was kind of confused after reading his response.
Anyways, it seems like the 10:1 Wax & PTFE mix works just fine.
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There must be another good explanation as to why oil was removed from the mix. It must simply not be as effective as he initially thought.
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He also preached that a cold water dunk immediately after waxing was critical, too. IOW, a number of things about his process have changed - I wouldn't read too much in to it.
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The quote was paraffin oil being added to the paraffin for softening, not PTFE? They're not the same thing, are they?
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The PTFE is a powdered Teflon additive to make the mix more slippery. The paraffin oil is there to make the wax softer. Oz went from a PTFE / paraffin oil/ paraffin wax soak to just a paraffin wax/ ptfe soak. I'm trying straight up paraffin wax soak and will make the xylene, wax and oil mixture as a bottle additive to touch things up when they get noisy.
#139
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PTFE is teflon. That one's pretty easy.
#140
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I don't get all the confusion. PTFE is powdered teflon. Paraffin alone is a solid wax. Paraffin oil, lamp oil and kerosene are all the same thing - fuel oils that evaporate very slowly. Xylene and isopropyl alcohol or acetone are not appropriate solvents for dissolving paraffin wax. Naphtha is the fastest evaporating solvent that will dissolve paraffin wax into a totally clear solution. The solution can turn into a mush as the room temperature drops or the ratio of solvent to wax is too low. Placing your applicator bottle in a small container of hot tap water will return the clarity.
I've been using wax with a high quality lubricating oil, mixed at a ratio of no more than 1 part oil to 3 parts wax. At this ratio, the oil dissolves completely into the wax, with no free oil to attract dirt. Dissolving this mixture with 3-6 parts naphtha with 1 part of wax will create a liquid lube.
I've been using wax with a high quality lubricating oil, mixed at a ratio of no more than 1 part oil to 3 parts wax. At this ratio, the oil dissolves completely into the wax, with no free oil to attract dirt. Dissolving this mixture with 3-6 parts naphtha with 1 part of wax will create a liquid lube.
Last edited by DaveSSS; 03-12-20 at 06:59 AM.
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I'm overthinking this one, but this is just my analytical mind doings its job.
#142
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A real lubricating oil in the mix can't hurt a thing, but fuel oils don't really make sense.
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This website says they are not the same thing.
#146
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Yeah, terminology for solvents can be imprecise and varies among regions. Even "naphtha" isn't all the same. Same with "mineral spirits."
But I'm pretty sure the isopropyl alcohol the Oz cycle guy suggests for dissolving paraffin for portable containers of lube, isn't the best solvent for wax or paraffin. Especially if it needs heat to melt the wax. Makes better sense to just buy some ready made paraffin or PTFE lube in liquid carrier, if it's just for occasional use on trips.
But I'm pretty sure the isopropyl alcohol the Oz cycle guy suggests for dissolving paraffin for portable containers of lube, isn't the best solvent for wax or paraffin. Especially if it needs heat to melt the wax. Makes better sense to just buy some ready made paraffin or PTFE lube in liquid carrier, if it's just for occasional use on trips.
#148
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Not nitpicking, I'm genuinely confused by this thread because I have no idea what people are talking about when they use the same words for different things and different words for the same things. After following this thread, I still have no idea how I would go about formulating my own wax-based lube.
#149
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Not nitpicking, I'm genuinely confused by this thread because I have no idea what people are talking about when they use the same words for different things and different words for the same things. After following this thread, I still have no idea how I would go about formulating my own wax-based lube.
I personally wouldn't bother with any type of alcohol or xylene to make a liquid lube, since you have to buy an expensive quart of each, just to test. I use cheap Crown brand camp stove fuel from Walmart that will serve double duty as a multipurpose degreaser. It's a lot cheaper than Coleman fuel or naphtha paint thinner.
Last edited by DaveSSS; 03-14-20 at 12:19 PM.
#150
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Not nitpicking, I'm genuinely confused by this thread because I have no idea what people are talking about when they use the same words for different things and different words for the same things. After following this thread, I still have no idea how I would go about formulating my own wax-based lube.
You can use straight paraffin wax, melted , and just soak your chain in it until it creeps into every nook and cranny. This works well but is a bit of a pain because you need to remove the chain and resoak it in hot wax to re apply. This leaves hard chunks of wax on the chain which will fall off when its flexed.
or you can add teflon powder to your wax to add lubricity to your wax.Teflon, or,Tetrafluoroethylene, is a powder in this instance, also called Ptfe.
You can add lamp oil, also called paraffin oil , to the wax. This softens the wax so it's not so brittle. Kind of like thick slush. It stays attached to the chain better and gets into spaces easier. In the oz video he dips a butter knife into the wax/paraffin oil mixture, and cools it by running it under cold water. Then he test its consistency with his thumb nail to see if it clings to the steel. Plain wax tends to peel off clean. Mixed in the right measure it smears but stays on the steel like a lubricant should.
The above methods all need heat to liquify the wax, first,to mix the ingrediants together. If you use any.and second, to apply it to the chain.
Some folks use an evaporating solvent as a carrier to assist the now desolved wax in application onto the chain. The solvent evaporates and leaves behind the wax, wax/oil, or, wax/oil/teflon,(whichever you choose) mix, on, and in the chain. In the Oz videos he uses xylene. I hate the smell of xylene, and have switched to Naptha, also called camp stove fuel, or lighter fluid, which is a further refinement of mineral spirits I believe.
Some others add motor oil to the mixture, but, to me that defeats the purpose of using wax. I like wax because it stays clean. Oil attracts grit and just makes a big slimey mess.
One last thing about completely dissolving the wax in.a carrier, and this is just my opinion. By the time you cut the wax 6 to 1 to liquify it there isn't enough wax left in the resulting mixture to properly lubricate the chain after the carrier evaporates. I like 3 to one and heat the bottle up in hot water to aid in its application. More wax = more better.
hope this clears things up for you.
Last edited by ls01; 03-13-20 at 03:05 PM.