cb400

It's not perfectly straight or round being built from all a rim with a borderline unusable flat spot and thump. Good practice for making sure I can accurately calculate rim ERD, get correct length spokes from spocalc, and build a useable wheel. Yes that is an upside down bike, the bars are rotated so that only the to be replaced bar tape touches the ground and the seat was 10$.

I was wondering when lacing about the point where the hub can be turned clockwise or counter-clockwise, is there a wrong way to turn it?
Also, am I correct in assuming that getting a wheel true and round is a lot easier with a rim that started out straight and round?

HerrKaLeun

Damaged parts like your rim will make a perfect wheel impossible.

mrrabbit 

Depending upon keyhole.

If I lay rim flat on a table, with valve stem opposite of me, away from me where I can clearly see it:

If second hole to the left of valve stem hole is lower (closer to table surface)...then that is my keyhole. I will start there, and turn hub COUNTER-CLOCKWISE when ready for the second set of spokes.

If it is the second hole to the right of the valve stem hole that is lower (closer to table surface)...then that is my keyhole. I will start there, and turn hub CLOCKWISE when ready for second set of spokes.

If the rim clearly has centerline drilling, I just go ahead and start second hole to left of valve stem, and twist hub counter-clockwise as a matter of habit.

=8-)


If

Russ Roth

Loads easier typically, getting a round, straight wheel with a damaged rim is an exercise in frustration that should be avoided.
If I have all the spokes on the outside of the flanges installed and wanted to turn the hub (I don't, I build with pairs of spokes all preinstalled in the hub) I would rotate the hub clockwise so that the spokes were pulling the rim around.

cb400

I'm still trying to wrap my head around it, the guide I followed had the key spoke on the right of the valve hole for both types of offset but differing in placement of the first spoke. What is the goal of turning it one way or the other?

I thought building it might also build some character. I also built it onto an early shimano uniglide freehub that doesn't currently function properly and can't be upgraded to a modern freehub body

mrrabbit 

Like I said, place a rim flat, with a view of the valve stem.

Check the 2nd holes to the right and the left.

That hole determines which way you twist the hub after the first quarter set of spokes.

Left Side = Counter Clockwise
Right Side = Clockwise

When I finally make a complete video of a wheel build, I'll include this.

I've lost count of how many times a wheelbuilder I know has tried to blame the hub when a build doesn't work out, to which I always ask: "Did you check the rim first?"

=8-|

cb400

Ahhh I see so the starting place can be independent of the twist. Then I will also have to start in the 3rd hole counter clockwise of the hub logo to make it look fancy, and make sure the writing is facing the correct direction on both the rim and hub. Starting the build now results soon.

bmcer

I was taught to build wheels using The techniques described by Roger Musson. That pretty much agrees with what's been said. With the rim on my lap, valve hole away from me, if the first spoke hole to the left on the valve hole is higher that valve hole, that's my "key hole". Musson refers to rims with spoke holes offset this was as "Type 1" and the vast majority of rims are made this way. If the hub has a label, the first right sided spoke goes through the flange hole (intended cross pattern - 1) holes to the left of the hole opposite the center of the hub label. This aligns things so the hub label is visible directly through the valve hole. It's a cosmetic thing mainly, but it does make finding the valve hole easier. I try to keep track of how many turns I put on each nipple as I lace the wheel making sure they all start from approximately the same tension.

Retro Grouch 

1. When I build a wheel I lace the pulling spokes heads out. A long time ago somebody convinced me that was the best way to do it and I've never changed. I also lace the heads out spokes on both sides first because it's easier to drop the heads in spokes into a partially laced wheel.

2. It's much easier to keep a rim round than it is to pull it into true during the tensioning process. When I tension a wheel I start by putting my thumbnail into the last spoke thread and tighten the nipple up with a nipple driver until my thumbnail bottoms out. I complete the tensioning process by counting turns on each individual spoke. That tensions the spokes evenly and keeps the rim round. I once built a wheel that, after I finished tensioning it this way, needed no radial nor lateral truing at all.

cb400

I think that's good enough for a used rim. I followed the tips about the spoke threading and it worked quite well as a starting point. I can see how it would make building a wheel with all new parts go much more quickly, it must be the only way to do it professionally in a reasonable time frame.

I still have to read more about the direction of spokes and location of key spoke and hub twisting until it all clicks. For this one I managed to follow the guides and got everything in the right place through a little trial and error.

sweeks

This ^^.
Musson's book is inexpensive and easy to follow. I've built a few wheels that have worked out well.

bmcer

If you do a bit of Googling, you can probably find his guide as a free downloadable PDF. Not as detailed or in depth as Brandt's treatise, but more than adequate, IMHO, for most shade tree builders.

sweeks

Even easier: Here it is. It's an "honor system" thing about paying for it, but it's quite reasonable.
I printed mine out and had it spiral bound for easy reference and annotation.

davidad

I like Gerd Schraener's method of spoking a wheel. The wheel ends up with the pulling spokes' heads in as recommended by Mavic. It's in his book "The Art of Wheel Building"

mrrabbit 

That's how 90% of my builds go, head in, elbows out - outside pulling spokes.

=8-)