spare_wheel

Have you cycled much in Amsterdam?

Since you don't believe me here are quotes from individuals who live in and bike in amsterdam:

Bakefiets en meer:
Amsterdamize (from the comments):

acidfast7

let me provide you with my experience THIS MORNING cycling in CPH.

people only stop when there is a car present. if the bike light is red and there's no car they'll still go.

this usually happens while the bike light is red and the cars have passed.

obviously, when it's 30 deep at the light, only the front few will sneak away

i think the article is sadly mistaken when it says that people in CPH allows follow the lights!

spare_wheel

well i'll take your word for it since i've only visited...

acidfast7

dynaryder

I was in the military;riding in my blues in 90deg weather was right out. Also not a very good idea from an OPSEC point of view.

trike_guy

Well Danes don't follow the rules too closely either. My own policy is to only run reds at small empty intersections. Got a ticket for that once, plain clothes bike cops in Copenhagen!

Still at this particular intersection in Oslo, its quite easy to miss a car turning across the bike lanes from behind, because it can happen from either side. You need to know the lights if your going to run them. I've witnessed a few abrupt stops due to that, at that intersection. Also needless to say, car drivers sometimes drive at dangerous speeds there (perhaps unfamiliar with the risks) which could really seal the fate of an inattentive red light runner. Poorly designed intersection IMHO.

PatrickGSR94

It's definitely done in the US. On Google Maps type in "scenic hwy 98, destin fl" and take a look at the street view where other minor streets come out onto Scenic Hwy 98. The street view is from 2007 and shows the striped crosswalk markings for the MUP path running alongside the road. This MUP is always full of walkers, runners, and folks riding slowly on rented beach cruiser bikes. Now take a look at the newer satellite images, which shows the crosswalk striping has been removed and instead 2 lines delineating the path across the road. The worst part, though, is that the stop line is now placed AFTER the MUP path crosswalk lines. So you frequently have cars pulling right up and into the MUP path, and if you're coming from west to east, almost no driver is watching for you in that direction as they're pulling out.

That path is super hazardous if you want to cycle more than 5 MPH so I always ride on the road in that area.

trike_guy

Sounds nasty. The same sort of thing happens in Oslo. The bike infrastructure can only be used after evaluating the circumstances.

Oh here's another lovely bit: in Norway, a biker on a crosswalk does not have the right of way, only people walking on crosswalks have the right of way over cars. So technically, a biker needs to yield to cars at each crosswalk. Can you beat that?

My wife is Danish, so she sees bikes in the road and she gets all annoyed, "what are they doing there" and so on. (Like an average American perhaps?) Going off topic --> People growing up in Copenhagen seem pretty shocked when they first see how biking is done elsewhere. A Danish guy she knew told her biking in Oslo was terrible with all the trolleys running around and unable to deviate to avoid bikes, and my wife still won't go anywhere in with the car traffic unless I'm dragging her along. After a life on a consistently designed and widely deployed network of (mostly) separated bike paths, I think lots of people look at Oslo or the USA and visualize bodies laying all over the streets. Amazing I think, someone who has basically been car-free her entire life, afraid to bike away from well-rehearsed routes.

I'm pretty sure separate infrastructure is the only way to get large numbers of riders, but the transition phase is ugly.