Anyone planning on buying one?
#27
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ha, I've seen shots of your bikes before, but I dont recall ever noticing the multi coloured crank bolts before!
Hey, as your bikes show, goofing around with colour accents and stuff is fun, and coming from a visual background, playing around with visual stuff is all good. Makes the world less blah, and having fun and enjoying this sport of ours is what it's all about.
(forgot about my early 90s purple Ortliebs, still have one in the household and it refuses to die, although it has faded a heck of a lot)
Hey, as your bikes show, goofing around with colour accents and stuff is fun, and coming from a visual background, playing around with visual stuff is all good. Makes the world less blah, and having fun and enjoying this sport of ours is what it's all about.
(forgot about my early 90s purple Ortliebs, still have one in the household and it refuses to die, although it has faded a heck of a lot)
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#28
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#29
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If I wanted a Paul set, I'd wait a year and buy it for $300 on the bay. Half off for year old commemorative parts, anyone?
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I would never pay a premium for anniversary anodization.
But I've never seen Paul disc brakes before. Are those jockey-wheel-looking things on the Klampers individual pad adjusters? Seems like a great idea!
AFAIK Paul components, though pricey, are exceptionally well designed and manufactured. Are these mechs as good as hydraulic?
But I've never seen Paul disc brakes before. Are those jockey-wheel-looking things on the Klampers individual pad adjusters? Seems like a great idea!
AFAIK Paul components, though pricey, are exceptionally well designed and manufactured. Are these mechs as good as hydraulic?
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A relic of that brief period in the late 2010's before everyone came to their senses and went back to rim brakes
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#32
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lol that ship has sailed for mountain bikes, the industry is not going back.
I think they're here to stay for non-MTB as well, I think they have a better long-term prognosis than rim cantis (which still have a small presence, for instance on my cross check)
I think they're here to stay for non-MTB as well, I think they have a better long-term prognosis than rim cantis (which still have a small presence, for instance on my cross check)
#33
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I would never pay a premium for anniversary anodization.
But I've never seen Paul disc brakes before. Are those jockey-wheel-looking things on the Klampers individual pad adjusters? Seems like a great idea!
AFAIK Paul components, though pricey, are exceptionally well designed and manufactured. Are these mechs as good as hydraulic?
But I've never seen Paul disc brakes before. Are those jockey-wheel-looking things on the Klampers individual pad adjusters? Seems like a great idea!
AFAIK Paul components, though pricey, are exceptionally well designed and manufactured. Are these mechs as good as hydraulic?
As for the quality, they are very good brakes. I’m not a fan of hydraulics and consider any mechanical to be superior to just about any hydraulic. They are better than a BB7 or TRP Spyke and easier to set up. They are completely rebuildable which isn’t something you can say about either the BB7 or the Spyke. They are also easy to convert from short to long pull and vise versa.
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#34
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Yes, the large wheels on the Klampers are pad adjusters. Both are easier to turn than the wheel you find on Avid’s BB7. The inner one does have a Allen socket on it but it’s hardly needed to turn the adjuster.
As for the quality, they are very good brakes. I’m not a fan of hydraulics and consider any mechanical to be superior to just about any hydraulic. They are better than a BB7 or TRP Spyke and easier to set up. They are completely rebuildable which isn’t something you can say about either the BB7 or the Spyke. They are also easy to convert from short to long pull and vise versa.
As for the quality, they are very good brakes. I’m not a fan of hydraulics and consider any mechanical to be superior to just about any hydraulic. They are better than a BB7 or TRP Spyke and easier to set up. They are completely rebuildable which isn’t something you can say about either the BB7 or the Spyke. They are also easy to convert from short to long pull and vise versa.
The conversion from long to short pull is a pretty neat design isnt it?
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#36
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showing my age, but I still have some clothing from the 90s when purple was considered cool, but I also sure as heck will never put purple parts on any of my bikes (one of my commuters is a 90s ish bike, and is a muted purple-ish, but not half as blingy purple as these)
for some of us, well for me anyway, the 80s and 90s garish colours put me off these hues for the rest of my life.
for some of us, well for me anyway, the 80s and 90s garish colours put me off these hues for the rest of my life.
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Is this were a complete group set (ft. and rr. deraillers, brake calipers or cantis, hubs, etc.) it might be worth it. Anyway if I was Michael Bloomberg I would buy it just for the heck of it.
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I'm not so sure it's a minority opinion. My co-op has a box full of hydraulic brakes and zero mechanicals. At Veloswap this year I was specifically looking for mechanicals and found dozens and dozens of barely used hydraulics sets (front and rear) but only 5 to 6 individual mechanicals. If hydraulics are so popular and so good, why do I find so many used ones that are nearly new?
From a mechanical standpoint, hydraulics work well until they don't and then they are a bugger to fix. Bleeding them is messy, time consuming and generally a royal pain. Returning them to how they came out of the factory is nearly impossible in my experience. Dealing with syringes and bleed ports and the fluid is usually not worth the effort. I wonder if that's why I find so many used hydraulics? The only hydraulic I've worked on that was simple is the Hope which are just like a car. Open them up, open the bleed port, pour in some fluid, pump them until they are firm and close them up again. Simple. Avid and Hayes are a difficult and next to impossible to get right.
From a rider's point of view, I haven't found a hydraulic where I like the way they work. People who say that they have "superior modulation" have no idea what modulation means, in my opinion. Modulation...to me...means a little bit of brake lever movement results in a little bit of braking. More lever movement means more braking. A lot of lever movement results in stopping the bike. Every hydraulic I've tried has given me a huge amount of braking for very little lever movement. They have been either "on" or "off" which is the very opposite of "modulation". On steep downhills, the rear end wants to come over the front at the slightest touch of brake which isn't something that I personally like.
Mechanicals, on the other hand, have always worked like brakes should. Drag the brake a little and the bike slows down a little. Hit them hard and the bike stops.
From a mechanical standpoint, hydraulics work well until they don't and then they are a bugger to fix. Bleeding them is messy, time consuming and generally a royal pain. Returning them to how they came out of the factory is nearly impossible in my experience. Dealing with syringes and bleed ports and the fluid is usually not worth the effort. I wonder if that's why I find so many used hydraulics? The only hydraulic I've worked on that was simple is the Hope which are just like a car. Open them up, open the bleed port, pour in some fluid, pump them until they are firm and close them up again. Simple. Avid and Hayes are a difficult and next to impossible to get right.
From a rider's point of view, I haven't found a hydraulic where I like the way they work. People who say that they have "superior modulation" have no idea what modulation means, in my opinion. Modulation...to me...means a little bit of brake lever movement results in a little bit of braking. More lever movement means more braking. A lot of lever movement results in stopping the bike. Every hydraulic I've tried has given me a huge amount of braking for very little lever movement. They have been either "on" or "off" which is the very opposite of "modulation". On steep downhills, the rear end wants to come over the front at the slightest touch of brake which isn't something that I personally like.
Mechanicals, on the other hand, have always worked like brakes should. Drag the brake a little and the bike slows down a little. Hit them hard and the bike stops.
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#39
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Interesting. I have only personally experienced hydraulics, so I can't compare with mechanicals.
I can say that Avid/Sram are a PAIN!!! to bleed, you gotta use these special syringes to create vacuums at both ends to get microscopic bubbles out of DOT fluid, follow a very specific workflow and only do it on a 5th tuesday when there's a full moon. Also my Avids had very bad turkey gobble, until a friend advised me to dab a little grease on the back of the brake pads, that took care of it.
I've found Shimano hydraulics dead easy though, they work great, they use nontoxic mineral oil, and you don't even really need to bleed them, you can just open the top port and 'burp' them by flexing the lever until no more air comes out (which I guess is the same as 'until they're firm', although you don't really know until you close up the port again)
With no experience, I can't compare hydraulic vs mech modulation. You're right, on/off is the opposite of modulation. All I know is, my hydraulics have much better modulation than the V brakes on my old GT mtb. (When my wife started mtb'ing with those brakes, she had a lot of endos and had to learn to be very careful with the front brake) And they are strong enough I can get away with 1 finger braking most of the time, 2 fingers if I happen to be descending a big hill and have to ride the brakes the whole way.
I've also found it difficult to get hydraulics well aligned/centered. The notion of loosen the mounting bolts, squeeze the brake, and tighten them back up, doesn't work that well in practice. But I imagine it would be the same with mechanicals.
I can say that Avid/Sram are a PAIN!!! to bleed, you gotta use these special syringes to create vacuums at both ends to get microscopic bubbles out of DOT fluid, follow a very specific workflow and only do it on a 5th tuesday when there's a full moon. Also my Avids had very bad turkey gobble, until a friend advised me to dab a little grease on the back of the brake pads, that took care of it.
I've found Shimano hydraulics dead easy though, they work great, they use nontoxic mineral oil, and you don't even really need to bleed them, you can just open the top port and 'burp' them by flexing the lever until no more air comes out (which I guess is the same as 'until they're firm', although you don't really know until you close up the port again)
With no experience, I can't compare hydraulic vs mech modulation. You're right, on/off is the opposite of modulation. All I know is, my hydraulics have much better modulation than the V brakes on my old GT mtb. (When my wife started mtb'ing with those brakes, she had a lot of endos and had to learn to be very careful with the front brake) And they are strong enough I can get away with 1 finger braking most of the time, 2 fingers if I happen to be descending a big hill and have to ride the brakes the whole way.
I've also found it difficult to get hydraulics well aligned/centered. The notion of loosen the mounting bolts, squeeze the brake, and tighten them back up, doesn't work that well in practice. But I imagine it would be the same with mechanicals.
#40
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Interesting. I have only personally experienced hydraulics, so I can't compare with mechanicals.
I can say that Avid/Sram are a PAIN!!! to bleed, you gotta use these special syringes to create vacuums at both ends to get microscopic bubbles out of DOT fluid, follow a very specific workflow and only do it on a 5th tuesday when there's a full moon. Also my Avids had very bad turkey gobble, until a friend advised me to dab a little grease on the back of the brake pads, that took care of it.
I can say that Avid/Sram are a PAIN!!! to bleed, you gotta use these special syringes to create vacuums at both ends to get microscopic bubbles out of DOT fluid, follow a very specific workflow and only do it on a 5th tuesday when there's a full moon. Also my Avids had very bad turkey gobble, until a friend advised me to dab a little grease on the back of the brake pads, that took care of it.
I've found Shimano hydraulics dead easy though, they work great, they use nontoxic mineral oil, and you don't even really need to bleed them, you can just open the top port and 'burp' them by flexing the lever until no more air comes out (which I guess is the same as 'until they're firm', although you don't really know until you close up the port again)
I've also heard about the "burping" but I wonder if you couldn't do the same with Avid.
With no experience, I can't compare hydraulic vs mech modulation. You're right, on/off is the opposite of modulation. All I know is, my hydraulics have much better modulation than the V brakes on my old GT mtb. (When my wife started mtb'ing with those brakes, she had a lot of endos and had to learn to be very careful with the front brake) And they are strong enough I can get away with 1 finger braking most of the time, 2 fingers if I happen to be descending a big hill and have to ride the brakes the whole way.
Being an old mountain biker, I've never seen the whole "one finger" thing as being something I strive for. I usually brake with at least 2 fingers and 3 if I can get them on the lever. I used to use up to 4 way back in the Stone Age. At times I'd like to go back to that. I don't need to hang on to the handlebars with the other fingers.
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Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
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Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#41
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I'm thinking I could sell my two ti customs, buy the Pauls and probably have enough money left over for a good espresso. No?
Edit: I.d need a new bike to put them on anyway. That anodizing doesn't match anything I've got.
Second edit: Now if I could (honestly) celebrate my 30th birthday next spring. I'd buy 'em for that "30" embossing. Sadly I celebrated my 2nd 30th six years ago.
Ben
Edit: I.d need a new bike to put them on anyway. That anodizing doesn't match anything I've got.
Second edit: Now if I could (honestly) celebrate my 30th birthday next spring. I'd buy 'em for that "30" embossing. Sadly I celebrated my 2nd 30th six years ago.
Ben
Last edited by 79pmooney; 12-03-19 at 01:06 PM.
#42
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....
Being an old mountain biker, I've never seen the whole "one finger" thing as being something I strive for. I usually brake with at least 2 fingers and 3 if I can get them on the lever. I used to use up to 4 way back in the Stone Age. At times I'd like to go back to that. I don't need to hang on to the handlebars with the other fingers.
...
Being an old mountain biker, I've never seen the whole "one finger" thing as being something I strive for. I usually brake with at least 2 fingers and 3 if I can get them on the lever. I used to use up to 4 way back in the Stone Age. At times I'd like to go back to that. I don't need to hang on to the handlebars with the other fingers.
...
I'd set the bike up with Shimano dual pivots. (Used; I still don't know what model.) Found some road levers with enormous hoods that my hands love for very hard out-of-the-saddle climbing. (McKensie Pass on a fix gear.) Figured out that these were V-brake levers. Test rode the brand new bike. Different! No modulation in lever travel but wonderful modulation in hand force vs response. Rode the very new bike on that ride, a little nervous about the braking.
Well, when I grabbed those fistfulls, all that happened was that I slowed down really fast. Made that steep, tight corner easily. And in that slowing, nothing happened. No lockup, no rear wheel lifting. Just a whole lot of slowing.
Now, V-brake road levers with regular brakes isn't all gravy. Braking from the hoods is not super. Not an issue for me as I was well drilled by my club's vets to always ride the drops in iffy conditions. Nearly a half century later, I still do. But that wonderful stopping. Sold! Half my bikes are now V-brake levers and dual pivot or canti. The rest have Mafac Racers and regular levers. (The traditional modulation.)
Ben
#43
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A Birzman Clam Disc Brake Gap tool will help. It sets the gap properly and helps align the pads. Disc's don't have much gap between the pads and the rotor and hydraulics need even less than mechanicals do. It works and it's cheap.
#44
Non omnino gravis
Have y'all been indoors so long that you've all selectively forgotten that Lightweight, Lupine, and Ceramicspeed are all companies that exist? No one needs anything any of those companies produce.
No one needs a fancy $2k component set, but no one needs DuraAce or eTap or <insert product here> either. Wants > needs.
We all know that if it interested him at all, trekmogul would buy two.
No one needs a fancy $2k component set, but no one needs DuraAce or eTap or <insert product here> either. Wants > needs.
We all know that if it interested him at all, trekmogul would buy two.
#46
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#47
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It doesn't just use the pads for alignment, it uses the entire rotor slot on the caliper. It's a larger datum than the piston itself. Hydraulics set their own gap.
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#48
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I wonder if it also stiffens the rotor so the caliper is better forced into a well-aligned position, rather than pulling the rotor to itself
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