laternser

Just discovered Leonard Zinn has a different bicycle company. Started with Nick Wigston.
Cannot believe I have not heard of it before. Did a quick search here and did not find references.

Note that Zinn is 6'6".

I edited this post to add links (2019-11-03) and other information, see if I can expand audience a bit.
https://bikeclydesdale.com/about-us/

https://www.velonews.com/2019/10/bik...-riders_500561
The second link includes Zinn reasoning behind choice of materials.
Anecdotal information that matches much of my own experiences.
" By focusing on durability rather than weight ...."


Seen and heard of so many broken titanium frames it was just off my radar. Titanium joining demands attention to detail and extensive work to prevent joint contamination. I am less worried about the weight of a frame than the ability to carry the weight I put on it. Frame durability is number one for me -- increases my chance of survival! Many materials and designs can handle loads over short term lifespan.

Titanium does offer qualities beyond steel, aluminum, and graphite.

Interesting since the Dirtysixer bicycles start at about $7000.

Bikeclydesdale:
https://bikeclydesdale.com/about-us/
(Here is hoping they change the unfortunate text choice of light grey font on white background.)
What is missing on from the manufacture is geometry drawings of frames.
I could create them from the image of a frame, but it would take a real effort.
The company already has such drawings /// without any assumptions.

First thing to note:
" The wheels are built right here at our shop in Boulder, Colorado using our own
Clydesdale hubs that are rated for riders up to 450lbs!"

Their offerings (Superb names. I'll say that again: Superb Names!):
1) "The Draft" Gravel/Road/Touring/Cyclocross $4450 L/XL/2XL/3XL/4XL 5'10" to 7'
https://bikeclydesdale.com/draft/
Observations: Carbon fork. Wheels and frame rated to 450lb. 36spoke Cranks to 215mm. Bike weight 23 to 25lbs
My older Cannondale (equivalent to 3xl) weighs in a 27.5 (I believe).
No wheelbase listed in geometry.
No geometry diagram. No seat tube length. Standover for 3xl is 36.2 (My Cannondale 36.5)
Fantastic. However: top tube slopes and point of measurement is not given.
Top tube length: 25.4 My vintage Cannondale: 24.25. Has Zinn has created a BIGGER frame geometry?
This is not the KHS-Zinn geometry as far as I can tell. But again, sloping top tube and no geometry drawing.
NO Wheelbase given. No tire size provided. Assume 700c road and not enough clearance for 29" tire?
Tire clearance give as 1.6" (40mm). No idea where they are measuring.

2) "The Team" Gravel/Road/Touring/Cyclocross $5850 L/XL/2XL/3XL/4XL 5'10" to 7'3"
https://bikeclydesdale.com/team/
Observations: Electonic shifting, again a carbon fork.

3) "Steer" 29+ Cross Country / All Mountain $4950 L/2XL/3XL/4XL 6'3" to 7'3"
https://bikeclydesdale.com/steer-29/
Observations: Hardtail with bent top tube.
32 spoke rims??? 450lb rating 29x3" tire clearance.
12x148 rear axle (used to be tandem spacing) 15x110 front.
Fork: Rock Shox Yari 29+ (120mm, 130mm, 140mm, or 150mm)
3xl (my size) lists standover at 36.5" . Probably estimated. Again: No drawing.
bottom bracket height 14.3"
As comparison: My 1998 Cannondale hardtail mountain has 11.2" BB height
and 35" standover with a straight top tube and 26" tires.
Wheelbase: **********??
??? 1x12 drivetrain drivetrain mountain bike.
Personal Note: I really need extra range. My rides tend to have systems that require
prior shift to larger rear cog prior to dropping to smallest 'tractor' front cog.
Not easy hauling cargo up the steep hills I encounter daily. Don't blow out your knees
.... the surgeons will not give you back anything near as good as what you have.
4) "Rein" Flat-Bar Gravel/Road/Commuter bike $3450 (Steel Fork!) or $3950 (Carbon Fork)
https://bikeclydesdale.com/rein/
"An all around city bike with a mountain bike style handlebar and ....."
Rated to 450 lbs.

5) "Whip" "E-bike for Big Guys" Gravel / Road / Touring $6750
https://bikeclydesdale.com/whip-ebike/
Observations: Bosch 28MPH / 36 H Rims / No Suspension

6) "Spur" Electric Mountain Bike $7250 "E-Bikes for heavy guys."
https://bikeclydesdale.com/spur-emtb/
Observations: 32 double butted spoked wheels. Front suspension.


There are a few clues that could be used to run frames through finite element analysis or just hand calculate stresses and compare with prior frame designs:
"31.6mm seatpost diameter 34.9mm outside ST diameter for seatpost clamp."
"44mm internal diameter headtube" ... just need the HT O.D.

Question: What tall bicycles are sold in Sweden?
Future of the World? Unexpected information for me:
https://ourworldindata.org/human-height
There is so much information on human health and history. Material I have never seen.
(Note height of Plains Native Americans 1890. Note who is missing from that chart.)
Print that page in color and show it around.

zjrog

I dislike the term gravitationally challenged in the title. I always have said, I'm not fat, but gravitationally ENHANCED... Well. Used to say. I'm not AS gravitationally enhanced as I used to be, I'm down from 378 to the 240s...

tallbikeman

Titanium is an interesting material. It has half the strength and half the weight of the equivalent weight of alloy steel. To get the strength of a steel frame more titanium is added until it weighs roughly what the steel frame weighs. Titanium bolts and nuts and other parts have been around forever but the bolts are half the strength of a good grade steel bolt. It has several very nice properties. It doesn't really rust in a normal way if at all. It is a very springy type of material and can be loaded and unloaded as much or more than steel. But in the end the titanium frame usually ends up weighing almost as much as an alloy steel frame with the same strength characteristics. High strength aluminum and carbon fiber frames can be built with as much if not more strength and still weigh substantially less than equivalent strength titanium and alloy steel. I believe that is why high strength aluminum and carbon fiber have replaced both titanium and alloy steels as the main ingredient in higher end bicycle frames. Dirtysixer bicycles use aluminum for their frames and either 32" or 36" wheelsets for the extra large person. They have a very high stated weight loading and I believe are the real deal when lots of weight and height needs a bicycle. They are expensive.

squirtdad

Frame weight is over emphasized as is total bike weight. you put a water bottle on the bike and an for a quart/liter it is 2 pounds/kilo you put a second on and you are 4 lbs up

frame weight is a small portion of bike weight.

all bikes can be made strong and light.....

interesting that many manufactures don't list the weights in their specs

also interesting in that what looks to be a reasonabably durable carbon bike diverge sport is 20.5 lbs in a 56 cm size at $3000 (17.6 pounds for the diverge s-works at $10,000)

my 84 miyata team was factory listed at 21.5 lbs for a 58 cm frame, my build has a 56 at 21 lbs

bottom line is steel is not automatically heavier than aluminum and carbon

fishboat

Mfgs use aluminum and carbon in bike frames for one main reason..much lower manufacturing costs as compared to steel and titanium. Getting the masses to believe one material is superior to anther is Marketing's job (i.e. hand-waving, smoke, and mirrors).

tallbikeman

The bicycle industry hides its cost very well. I have found that pricing for derailleurs or any other component on a bicycle including the frame and fork depends on who it is marketed toward. Older people will be charged more. BMX bicycles for kids will pay less for components. Foreign countries will have different pricing strategies according to what they can afford. I believe your typical derailleur made in the orient costs pennies or dimes to make. May be a dollar for better derailleurs. Maybe 5 bucks for a high end derailleur. The mark up is huge. So it doesn't surprise me that these two materials rose to the top of the bicycle world because they are cheap in all regards to their manufacture. All hail superior marketing.

rutan74

Not sure what you are talking about here. Given its strength, titanium is remarkably light. When compared to steel in a strength-to-weight ratio, titanium is far superior, as it is as strong as steel but 45% lighter. In fact, titanium has the highest strength-to-weight ratio of all known metals. The issue here is basically weight. Although steel is stronger in the higher grades, when it comes down to strength to weight ratio, Ti wins out. Not to mention that it weathers better than steel.

One of the problems with Ti today is of the quality of the formulation. Today's Ti is probably not as good of quality as was used back in the '80's. It is also difficult to weld and those two issues might be more of a factor in recent frame failures than the material alone. Ti frames cost a lot and it is not just the material but the quality of the welder. That more than the material is what you are paying for IMO.

john

Atlas Shrugged

Strength to weight wise Carbon is vastly superior to ether materials thus it is the most popular material for high end bicycles. Titanium has a major advantage which is also its Achilles Heel. It’s weakness is that’s it’s not very scalable in a manufacturing sense thus not popular amongst mass manufacturers. However it requires minimal equipment to enter into limited production which fosters a large custom manufacturer base.

Not sure where the comment comes from regarding the quality of current titanium material is inferior from materials of the past. That’s a first for me.

tallbikeman

I misquoted the strength of titanium. It can be as strong or stronger that steel but lighter for the same strength. That is not the issue. It is titaniums flexibility that causes bicycle frame makers to add more titanium to quell flex to one degree or another. Titanium bicycles are heavier than aluminum and lighter than steel all of the same dimensions and specifications. I apologize for misspeaking. I actually have not heard the reason why Mr. Zinn picked titanium in the first place for his production run.

rutan74

Hey, no problem. I was just a bit confused by your comments. I have handled a raw Moots frame made from Ti and I could have literally thrown it across the room. It was like 2, maybe 3 lbs. I did not see any extras that were added and if there were, it was hidden where you could not see it.


For my final bike of my life, I am seriously considering Ti specifically for its strength, lightness and durability. Everything I have read indicates an average life of 20+ years. IMO, many of the Ti failures is/are due to welding imperfections. It takes a really good craftsman to weld a Ti frame. Just take a look at No. 22 bikes and the welding on those tubes. It's a rolling piece of artwork.


john

tallbikeman

Never heard of No.22 bicycles before. They are aesthetically pleasing bicycles. I have found that properly designed steel bicycles from the 70's and 80's are holding up very well. No problems with frame or fork failures. No problems with oxidation. I am not looking for an especially light bicycle. I live in the Central Valley of California and it is flat for tens to hundreds of miles in all directions from my house. As such I don't worry about a bicycles overall weight too much. If I lived in the mountains or other hilly areas I would look for lighter bicycles. Thus older steel frames in my size are perfectly adequate for the riding I do. I wasn't aware of titanium frame failures due to flawed assembly but from my reading the metal looks to be very specific in how you put it together. If any step during manufacture is missed they fail. I notice that No.22 uses very large rear drop out interfaces for welding and uses very large chain stays to get around the flexibility problems with titanium. Very good design in my opinion. If you are posting to this site then there is a chance you are big, or tall, or big and tall. It looks like No.22 has that covered also. They state that their tubing sets are calibrated to the weight of the rider. No.22 appears to be a first rate manufacturer. As far as failure rates for any frame material or method of assembly there is no real data available to the public. So the only information available appears to be first and second hand accounts of frame and fork failures in forums and blogs like this one. The bicycle industry hides all this information fearing lawsuits. So any information about titanium frame breakage has to be tempered with the fact that it might be just hearsay or worse, malicious rumor. There is no real way to check out those stories. Post a picture of your new No.22 when you get it.

rutan74

I found them by accident. I love the look of their bikes though. They have won a bunch of major awards over the last few years at the yearly builders bike show so I concur that they are doing something right.

And yes, I am here because I am a clyde. I'm not 250 but I am over 200 @ 6 foot tall. My Felt carbon Z3 frame did fail albeit a small crack on my seat tube which Felt replaced the entire frame on. That was purely a design problem as the replacement frame had this notch in the seat post modified. I guess it was a stress point. I've had the bike now for 4 years and so far the replacement frame is holding. I can't say that for the wheelset as I have went thru 2 rear wheels. One factory and one custom built. My local wheelwright built me an entirely new wheel and that wheel has been rock solid for the last 4 years.

So, I am not against steel or aluminum since I also have an older aluminum Specialized but for me, there is just something about Ti. I guess that is the craftsman in me since Ti is not mass produced and it does take some expertise to build a frame.

We will see about a Ti. Cost is an issue. No 22 is not common and they have very few dealers. They could also go out of business tomorrow since they are a very small operation but I have to admit, I love the look of their bikes. Lynsky is near me or somewhat close but they do not have any bikes to look at at their factory. You have to go to a dealer and the closest dealer to me is about 4 hours. Moots is nice but again, they are not close and neither is No 22. I guess when you want Ti and don't live right next door to a dealer you have to roll the dice, but that 5 grand I am nervous about spending on a whim.

john

tallbikeman

Building rear wheels that can survive a Clyde takes the experience of failing wheels to point you in the right direction. In the past I gravitated to 36 hole hubs with 2mm spokes. When the 10 speed rear hubs appeared I built a 36 hole wheel using a tried and true rim and the 2mm(14 gauge) spokes. I started breaking cassette side spokes. On went 13/14 gauge spokes. 13 gauge at the hub end and 14 the rest of the way. These don't break and have held up well. I have used aero wheels with as few as 24 spokes on the rear and that wheel held up well. The aero spokes were quite large, possibly 12 gauge, and never broke. The aero rim was quite deep and heavily built with rim brake lands. I've never had problems with hubs but rims and spokes are a different matter. It is good you found a local builder that built a proper wheel for you. I have been in other forum threads discussing wheels for Clydes and people were breaking all kinds of wheels. Stock wheels and custom wheels were being broken. From looking at descriptions of the broken wheels a common thread began to emerge. Heavy folks were buying lightweight racing weight wheels and blowing them up. Folks were trying to buy the Marlboro ad and not something reflective of their true situation. As a heavier person I have to be very careful of the parts I use on my bicycle. I don't want to get hurt and I want to get my money's worth.