mrblue

Yes, going forward I will make an attempt to contact the retailers should I have further issues. I have reached out to the retailer from whom I purchased the most recent failed derailleur. They said they would reach out to Campagnolo to find out what they require to initiate a warranty replacement. Now I'm just waiting to hear back.

I've already ordered a new derailleur from a different online retailler (Velomine, in Illinois). So if Campagnolo wants to send me a replacement, great, I'll have a spare for when the third derailleur fails. If not, great. Whatever.

The disheartening thing about this is that these parts failed, each in under a year. I really expected more from a company like Campagnolo. Whether or not they honor any kind of warranty doesn't really matter to me. I just wish they made better stuff. I mean, I bought some old 8 speed Sora used years ago and I had it for a while, passed it along to a friend, and he's still riding it. That's quality even if it is Shimano's lower tier groupset. On my commuter I still have 105 5700 from about 4 or 5 years ago. So far no issues and that bike gets far more abuse (it's a commuter) than the bike with Potenza ever would.

Now I know better. Campagnolo is the high-maintence muse that'll take all your money and leave you broke and stranded, but DAMN she's sexy. Shimano on the other hand is quiet, low maintenance, cost-effective, and committed for the long-haul but she doesn't necessarily inspire you

And to think, I was contemplating an upgrade to Chorus 11 in the near future. Not so sure anymore. Maybe now it's more like an upgrade to Ultegra R8000.

fietsbob

Maybe mail a letter, directly ? in Italian?
leaving it here is like yelling in a closet with the door closed.

Might make you feel better....

Out here, no Campag in the shop.. broken stuff replaced only by special order..

NB: cycle tourists get to enjoy the town for several days longer,
for order shipping to take place..

Or going to Portland , and back.. (there is a bus)






..

fietsbob

FWIW In the 80's, Campag dropped their MTB line, I got their derailleurs, then ..

they had more metal in them than the Shimano XT of the era, so heavier.

They went on my touring bike, which is friction bar end shifted.. ..
and Me, not very lowest bike weight centered..

Litespud

I'd try it anyway. Years ago I had a high end watch that gave me nothing by trouble. After years of paying for repairs that resulted from an initial catastrophic failure, I contacted the US distributor (wrote them a letter), more just to let them know of my awful experience with this vaunted timepiece than looking for anything in particular. Never heard back from them. Finally, sick of looking at this watch that had been consigned to a drawer because is was simply too unreliable, I packaged it up and sent it to the manufacturer in Geneva with a letter describing my experiences with it and effectively saying "have it back - I'm sick of looking at it and I don't want it". A couple of months later, it arrives back, the movement overhauled, the case replaced and the bracelet refurbished, with a letter detailing everything that had been done, and a hope that this would go some way to restoring my faith in the brand. It was an eye-opener. I suspected that the Swiss might rise to the challenge, unlike their US counterparts, and they didn't disappoint.

Litespud

I truly think the Campagnolo quality has deteriorated over the years. Don't get me started on the jewel-like finish detail of Nuovo Record etc from the 70's and 80's, but even over the past 10-15 years. For example, I have a '98 Chorus crankset, and the chainring- and chainring bolt engravings are deep and sharp, the edges on the rings crisp and well-defined. Compare to a ~2005 Chorus crank - no engravings, just shallow and uneven stamping, the rings feel just "cheaper". Still decent, but clearly not as well finished as its predecessor.

zze86

I don't know if Campy is less reliable than before but in their pursuit of pleasing the racer boys I've certainly become more disillusioned with their parts.

Before they recently decided to consolidate their line, everything had a carbon option and no shiny option. I mean their Athena line had carbon this and that. Their Centaur line had carbon this and that. Their new silver finishes are just ugly looking, bumpy looking matte silver, looking like Sora level gear, bleh. All their R&D seems to go into carbon-izing everything.

I distrust the move away from steel allen bolts to Al torx head bolts, whether it's the derailleur hanger bolt or the shifter clamp bolt. And just to save a few grams! It makes everything seem so fragile. I guess if you're appealing to racers with CF frames and such which require kiddie gloves to handle but what about the other 90% of us who like to use our bikes for more utilitarian things like commuting or hauling stuff. I understand they are playing to a certain market niche, but it is totally possible to specialize yourself to extinction.

I really hate the move from their ratcheting ultrashift front mechanism to an indexed front. At least give me that option in the lower groupsets if your top end groupsets must have indexed in the front to appeal to the racer boys. TBF though, it seems like the industry as a whole seems to think that everybody needs indexed shifting in the front (or in SRAMs case, none at all), but this used to be a unique thing that Campy offered on their Chorus/Record/SR shifters.

I recently put together a Potenza mini group on a bike I built up for the SO and honestly, not that impressed. IMO, their Centaur line used to be on par with, or maybe just slightly below, their Ultegra contemporaries. The Potenza line, which is marketed as the Ultegra competitor, is nowhere as nice as the new Ultegra and definitely not as nice as my 10s Centaur group. The finish is not as nice and the action is not as clean (although IMO, Campy's Ergo shape and brifter implementation is still light years ahead of Shimano's poor attempt).

I guess I'm still bitter over the whole ratcheting ultrashift thingy, lol.

cpach

OP: Did you ever actually email Campagnolo regarding your complaint? There's no way they're going to handle warranty without going through a dealer, but I'd bet they'd want to hear about any failures in the field. They have a contact form at https://www.campagnolo.com/US/en/contact_us . I work in the industry so I interact with companies differently, but my experience is that Campagnolo USA has been pretty easy to communicate with and definitely very interested in feedback, particularly regarding failure and reliability of the components.

I also wish more things still came in pure silver. I'm planning on building a bike with Campy hydraulic (seriously, they nailed the disc brake design) and saw that at launch some articles mentioned that Potenza HO would be getting a silver finish, but talking to the technical rep a few weeks ago made it seem like that wasn't in the works. So no silver hydraulic levers or calipers. Test rode SR 12 HO when the rep was visiting, definitely felt fantastic, considering getting 12sp Record HO instead. Interestingly US prices are actually going to drop slightly with 12sp it looks like.

mrblue

Email from Brian @ Campagnolo NA (my comments in red):

Your situation is unfortunate and I can honestly say I have not heard of one like it in my time at Campagnolo. I wish we would have been aware of the situation with the first derailleur as our warranty is 3 years on product manufacturing defects. It is not recommended for anyone that has not been trained to disassemble our componentry, and in this situation it would probably be difficult to see what the original cause of malfunction was; however, if your derailleur is still within 3 years of purchase please take it in to your local shop and have them set up a Return Authorization with us at Campagnolo North America. Then we can have a look and see if the situation is a candidate for warranty replacement. I talk with riders like yourself on a daily basis and so do all my colleagues. We do not only speak to our service centers of certain shops, we are here to help all Campagnolo riders. One great thing about our company is that we do answer the phone unlike our competitors. We are a small family run company and treat our customers as such. (Interestingly, when I called Campy NA a while back with a simple question about obtaining a part for front derailleur I was stonewalled, before I could even explain why I was calling, by someone who told me point blank, "I can't help you unless you are a professional mechanic or an authorized retailer") I hope we can find a solution to your situation so that you can continue to enjoy Campagnolo components (I hope so too).

Email from Emily @ 365 Cycles (ebay seller):

Good Morning,

There is a three year warranty on Campagnolo products. Go ahead and send the derailleur in and I will warranty it for you.


I'm not sure what "warranty it" means exactly but I sent the derailleur back to 365 Cycles. Like I said earlier, if I get a new one, great (it'll be a spare for when the third one fails). If not, oh well, whatever.

CliffordK

Perhaps a semantics issue with a definition that is somewhat grey.

Campagnolo has an agreement to sell parts to the USA through Campagnolo USA. And, all parts coming in will be charged a US Tariff, I believe, as well as any applicable sales taxes.

Buying through the major European vendors bypass using Campagnolo USA, as well as frequently get sold without European VAT taxes, any applicable US Tariffs, or applicable US sales taxes.

In the car market, "grey" indicates cars that were designed to be sold to the European market, and likely have different safety and emissions standards than in the USA. That is somewhat different here as the Campy parts are identical. But, the sales routes are still different.

CliffordK

It sounds like the OP may get warranty service. Having thrown away the first derailleur doesn't help.

It is hard to read anything into Campy's response that this is a "unique" situation. Companies rarely admit major flaws in their products or product re-designs to fix bugs.

As far as Campagnolo being finicky... I don't know.

I've put on quite a few miles on my mixed Campagnolo SR (and others) setup. It does very well.

I bought most of the components used, and have probably close to 10,000 miles on them over a few years without any major expensive upgrades (except for a few replacement Shimano chains, now trying Wippermann). I use a couple of bikes, so not all my miles hit the one road bike.

I can only think of two issues I've had so far.

• Right shifter walks down the bars. Some shimming and tightening seems to help. Who knows, it could be an issue from before I bought the shifters.
• Left shifter ghost shifts (downshifts), or will torque shift when cross chained.
  I'm not entirely sure on this one. As mentioned the shifters were bought used.
  I did choose to mix 1st Gen Campy SR 11 (white label) shifters with a newer gen Chorus vertical pull FD. I have a feeling this was a poor choice, and I should have installed a first gen 11 horizontal pull FD, and may make the change sometime.

Otherwise, my Campy shifts nicely and precisely, is very comfortable, and overall works well...

HerrKaLeun

Two sides of the coin:
- assuming the RD was installed and installed correctly, shame on Campi. I'm a bit confused why OP bought a 3rd RD.... After 2 I would have switched manufacturers. No wonder they only do road groupsets. Their stuff couldn't handle rough MTB duty.
- Campi is in its right to do warranty through seller. Since OP chose not to contact seller, we have no way of knowing if that would have worked or not. Sounds like it was easier to post here than to send an email to seller. I'm pretty sure a reputable EU seller will be equally as helpful as a US online seller. The few times I ever had problems with online orders (not bike related) the amazon and ebay sellers either refunded me the money (and I could keep the original) or sent me a new item free of charge (and also didn't want the old one back). I'm sure CRC et eal will handle warranty exactly to the conditions you agreed to when purchasing.

mrblue

I guess you didn't feel reading my last post:

Email from Brian @ Campagnolo NA (my comments in red):

Your situation is unfortunate and I can honestly say I have not heard of one like it in my time at Campagnolo. I wish we would have been aware of the situation with the first derailleur as our warranty is 3 years on product manufacturing defects. It is not recommended for anyone that has not been trained to disassemble our componentry, and in this situation it would probably be difficult to see what the original cause of malfunction was; however, if your derailleur is still within 3 years of purchase please take it in to your local shop and have them set up a Return Authorization with us at Campagnolo North America. Then we can have a look and see if the situation is a candidate for warranty replacement. I talk with riders like yourself on a daily basis and so do all my colleagues. We do not only speak to our service centers of certain shops, we are here to help all Campagnolo riders. One great thing about our company is that we do answer the phone unlike our competitors. We are a small family run company and treat our customers as such. (Interestingly, when I called Campy NA a while back with a simple question about obtaining a part for front derailleur I was stonewalled, before I could even explain why I was calling, by someone who told me point blank, "I can't help you unless you are a professional mechanic or an authorized retailer") I hope we can find a solution to your situation so that you can continue to enjoy Campagnolo components (I hope so too).

Email from Emily @ 365 Cycles (ebay seller):

Good Morning,

There is a three year warranty on Campagnolo products. Go ahead and send the derailleur in and I will warranty it for you.


I'm not sure what "warranty it" means exactly but I sent the derailleur back to 365 Cycles. Like I said earlier, if I get a new one, great (it'll be a spare for when the third one fails). If not, oh well, whatever.

To answer you question, "Why did the OP buy a third derailleur?" At this point, since I don't have several hundred dollars to dish out for a new groupset, which would be ideal, I agree, purchasing another derailleur for $100 was the cost-effective solution to keep my bike running. At least until I can afford a new groupset.

HerrKaLeun

No, i didn't. but I'm still unsure why you didn't contact seller first before posting here. This forum is great to warn others of bad service, but give them a chance first.

glad it looks like they take care of you for RD #2 . too bad about shipping cost, but that may be minor for a bling-brand RD.

mrblue

I actually did contact Campagnolo first. I wanted people to know, not so much that Campagnolo customer service is bad, rather, barring my bad luck,there is the distinct likelihood that Potenza just plain sucks. Because I'm sure if this happened to me twice in the span of a year it's probably happened to someone else, or will happen to someone else. And when they do a Google search I want them to know they are not alone in dealing with faulty Potenza components.

Shipping cost was actually not too bad. Just under $18.00 for Priority Mail.

mrblue

However, there is no guarantee it is "being taken care of." There still remains the likelihood that Campagnolo after the requisite 2 weeks of deliberation (according to the seller) could come back and say, "NO WAY! NO WARRANTY!" If that's the case, I do indeed plan to replace the whole groupset sooner rather than later.

veganbikes

I never understand when people don't go back to the original place of sales or service when they are having issues. I had a customer who got some work done at our shop (which we guarantee for 30 days) and was having some issues and instead of coming down to our shop and getting it fixed which we would happily do free of charge, they went to another shop (who I don't think totally fixed the problem) and then came to us demanding we pay their bill. If I were that customer I would have brought it right back in and had them fix it and and test ride it and make sure the problem is gone and if they truly could not fix the problem I would politely and calmly ask for at least a partial refund.

In your case I would have gone right back to the internet store at the first issue and asked the original seller to warranty the product and if they didn't I would say "ah well shouldn't have bought it online" and then try and take it down to my local shop and bring some beer and see if they can help out. I would not have bought a new derailleur unless it could not be warrantied or fixed and if I had to buy one I would go through my local shop so I could get the warranty.

Kapusta

CliffordK

As you have discovered, some manufacturers deal with purchasers individually. Some require you to go through their dealer system.

Both methods are valid.

Better communication with customers would be good for many companies.

Andrew R Stewart 

I'll end my contribution to this thread with the aspect of what the aftermarket is worth to a major manufacturer. I have been told by many differing industry people that the real business volume comes from the OEM accounts and that the aftermarket is relatively smaller yet vastly more expensive to deal with. So if we riders view a manufacturer as serving our upgrading, general repairs/servicing and such (not associated with a new bile purchase) we are not truly understanding the business of a manufacturer.

This myopic and self centered view is rather common and for some impossible to get past. The "walk a mile in another's shoes" seems to be lost in today's world. Andy

fietsbob

Yea, Service after the sale, flows back upstream from retail end..

Koyote

If they would respond to you, how would you expect them to respond to your question? I mean, do you really think they would respond with, "Yeah, our lower-end groups are pretty lame, and we hate customers who buy anything cheaper than Chorus" …?

mrblue

I don't expect that, but if they did respond as such I'd be very impressed and actually respect them all the more for their honesty.

DaveSSS 

I've used nothing but Campy since '95. The old front shifters had 7 clicks that would handle a double or triple crank FD. 5 clicks were needed for a double crank. I wouldn't call 5-7 clicks microshifting. You had to remember how many clicks to get onto the middle ring, with a triple. The early ultrahisft levers could still operate a triple, just like the old levers, but that's no longer the case. I just installed a 2018 Chorus group and got my first experieince with the new FD and shifter. It took me awhile to figure it out, but it seems to work fine - no chance of dropping the chain and there are trim clicks as needed, only for the little ring.

I wouldn't buy powershift levers, so I buy Chorus these days. It's the best bang for the buck, IMO.

INSIDE 2009 Ergopwer

zze86

Oh but the glorious combinations you could run with it! Dual, triple, Campy, Shimano, Suntour, SRAM. Old friction gear, new indexed gear. It could pretty much do it all. Sure some setups were a little more finicky than others but for the most part it worked. Combined with a Shimergo rear setup and you had EVERYTHING covered. dual/triple up front, 11-36t (probably more, I just never tried) in the rear. AND they were rebuildable.


These new ones are just meh in comparison and work like any other indexed system. As I said, at least give me the option on the lower tier groupsets if the racer boys NEED indexed front.

TiHabanero

As a long time Campy fan boy, and long time user of Campy components I can confirm the quality of design and build that the legendary company was built upon has slipped a bit. Traditionally low end Campagnolo components were not so pretty, but functioned equally as well as the top shelf stuff. It all changed with indexed shifting. Not sure what is up with their engineering group and the bean counters, but they do need to get it back together. As it stands, Record, Chorus and Athena are it. Potenza is affordable, however so was Valentino.

As for customer service, the experience I just had with Campy USA was outstanding. Having worked for a company selling motorcycle parts on line I understand why someone did not want to talk with you about the der failure. Most shade tree motorcycle mechanics are self-declared Harley mechanics of 30 years, yet are unable to adequately diagnose problems and probe electrical issues. They throw parts at the problem and claim a defective part if it does not solve it. I suspect Campy customer service doesn't want to deal with idiots like that either. Can't blame them and I agree with that Campy person's position.

For what it is worth, I ride Italian motorcycles and I find that the Italians are just not up to the "The customer is always right" mantra that lives in the USA. They are more realistic about things.