Shimano Shocker
03-06-19, 09:43 AM
#26
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all my main riders are foot forward or semi recumbent. i usually just avoid biopace type rings since the pedal stroke gets a little off (and high performance isn't my main goal on my mostly casual bikes).
but i did read/hear once they can be good for foot forward if you rotate the chainring on the spider, i think like one mounting hole, but again, i just ride casually so i never experimented with it. getting older though, i wouldn't mind trying it again if i really knew what i was doing and/or would get some good out of it.
but i did read/hear once they can be good for foot forward if you rotate the chainring on the spider, i think like one mounting hole, but again, i just ride casually so i never experimented with it. getting older though, i wouldn't mind trying it again if i really knew what i was doing and/or would get some good out of it.
03-06-19, 11:09 AM
#27
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People may not have liked it, but that doesn't mean it "didn't work" or was somehow fundamentally flawed. If you didn't "make it up," then were is the evidence that the concept was flawed from an engineering standpoint?
03-06-19, 01:14 PM
#28
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Thread Starter
I think this was "trailangel's" attempt at Humor. I am telling you I have a Biopace that has only one High Spot in it's Oval. That is what has been throwing me off. Everything makes perfect sense if there are two High Spots in the Oval. I can not believe " trailangel" is a Schwinn Varsity owner. They are always down to earth.
03-06-19, 01:47 PM
#29
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Not saying it is impossible, just saying that Shimano, a competent company specializing in bicycle components, isn't likely to have put something into production that "didn't work."
People may not have liked it, but that doesn't mean it "didn't work" or was somehow fundamentally flawed. If you didn't "make it up," then were is the evidence that the concept was flawed from an engineering standpoint?
People may not have liked it, but that doesn't mean it "didn't work" or was somehow fundamentally flawed. If you didn't "make it up," then were is the evidence that the concept was flawed from an engineering standpoint?
Most people who tried them were not fond of the way they worked and dissatisfied with the results.
Better?
-Tim-
03-06-19, 07:42 PM
#30
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I used a Sugino Cycloid non-circular ring on a cannondale hybrid a long time ago as part of a single ring drivetrain. Worked ok but didn't make me faster. Never crossed my mind that maybe I should have whacked it with a hammer.
They can be used to make avatars, also.
They can be used to make avatars, also.
__________________
Bacchetta Giro A20, RANS V-Rex, RANS Screamer
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03-06-19, 10:28 PM
#31
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Thread Starter
I have a Sneaky Feeling that if you rotated the Biopace Gear Ring 90 Degrees on the Crank Pads so the High End of the Oval is inline with the Cranks, you would have a Pretty Nice Gear Ring. Maybe even Competitive with Tim's Favorites, Absolute Black, Rotor QRing and Osymetric.
JanMM, you didn't Whack it with a Hammer? Missed Opportunity. You do not know how much fun you missed.
JanMM, you didn't Whack it with a Hammer? Missed Opportunity. You do not know how much fun you missed.
03-07-19, 06:56 AM
#32
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I understand what you are saying though but oftentimes marketing overrules engineers.
03-07-19, 07:12 AM
#33
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I have a Sneaky Feeling that if you rotated the Biopace Gear Ring 90 Degrees on the Crank Pads so the High End of the Oval is inline with the Cranks, you would have a Pretty Nice Gear Ring. Maybe even Competitive with Tim's Favorites, Absolute Black, Rotor QRing and Osymetric.
I never said that anything was my favorite.
I simply mentioned a few modern brands. That's all.
-Tim-
03-07-19, 08:39 AM
#34
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Boy did you say a Mouth Full. Brad Pitt came down to New Orleans after Katrina with all of his "Architects, Business Managers and Construction Engineers" and they spent $500,000 to build a House for one Lady named Ms. Allen that had so many Structural Problems and Water and Moisture Invasion they had to buy it back from her and Demolish it. The Rest of his Houses in his little "Make it Right" Development are not far behind. A $50,000,000 Disaster.
03-07-19, 08:47 AM
#35
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In response o comments saying Shimano Biopace is the same as modern elliptical rings if you rotate them 90 degrees... if you can think of a way to mount a ring 90 degrees off on a 5 arm spider then you live in a world with different geometric rules than the rest of us.
03-07-19, 09:26 AM
#36
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Thread Starter
You said Absolute Black, Rotor QRing and Osymetric were Phased Correctly and thus Work. You also said Absolute Black is Highly Regarded. I took that to mean you favored them.
03-07-19, 09:40 AM
#37
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Thread Starter
In response o comments saying Shimano Biopace is the same as modern elliptical rings if you rotate them 90 degrees... if you can think of a way to mount a ring 90 degrees off on a 5 arm spider then you live in a world with different geometric rules than the rest of us.
03-07-19, 10:17 AM
#38
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Thread Starter
In response o comments saying Shimano Biopace is the same as modern elliptical rings if you rotate them 90 degrees... if you can think of a way to mount a ring 90 degrees off on a 5 arm spider then you live in a world with different geometric rules than the rest of us.
03-07-19, 11:10 AM
#39
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Boy did you say a Mouth Full. Brad Pitt came down to New Orleans after Katrina with all of his "Architects, Business Managers and Construction Engineers" and they spent $500,000 to build a House for one Lady named Ms. Allen that had so many Structural Problems and Water and Moisture Invasion they had to buy it back from her and Demolish it. The Rest of his Houses in his little "Make it Right" Development are not far behind. A $50,000,000 Disaster.
BTW, you've been here for more than 10 posts, let's see a picture of your chainring.
03-07-19, 11:31 AM
#40
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In response o comments saying Shimano Biopace is the same as modern elliptical rings if you rotate them 90 degrees... if you can think of a way to mount a ring 90 degrees off on a 5 arm spider then you live in a world with different geometric rules than the rest of us.
Anyway, if I had a bike with BioPace chainrings for casual or sport riding, I wouldn't be tempted to rotate or replace them.
After all, most people who cycle for transportation and pleasure---in other words, most of the cyclists in the world---pedal along at cadences below 80 rpm. Someone at Shimano clearly noticed this fact and asked their engineers to design a chainring that was more comfortable and efficient at such cadences. They did, and it is.
The problem was that Shimano didn't make clear to the bike manufacturers or to customers that the chainrings are meant to be used at low cadences. Anyone who was reading Bicycle Guide or Bicycling during the BioPace days read reviews praising the rings to the skies. At first. But once bike racers started buying bikes with BioPace rings, they started complaining about how it felt to pedal with then at high cadences, and the magazine reviews turned negative.
So if you pedal at higher cadences, it makes sense to use round rings or (presumably) Rotor rings and the equivalent. If you like pedaling at lower cadences, you might prefer BioPace.
The irony of the story is that Shimano has been damned for decades for BioPace's non-race-oriented design objective, while Rivendell is praised as a savior for doing essentially the same thing---pushing designs that benefit the casual cyclist and the beeswax-and-tweed-jodphurs crowd.
03-07-19, 12:12 PM
#41
Senior Member
Thread Starter
You have never seen a Biopace Chainring? I also Post the way I want.
03-07-19, 12:32 PM
#42
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Perhaps he meant 90 degrees plus or minus a fudge factor.
Anyway, if I had a bike with BioPace chainrings for casual or sport riding, I wouldn't be tempted to rotate or replace them.
After all, most people who cycle for transportation and pleasure---in other words, most of the cyclists in the world---pedal along at cadences below 80 rpm. Someone at Shimano clearly noticed this fact and asked their engineers to design a chainring that was more comfortable and efficient at such cadences. They did, and it is.
The problem was that Shimano didn't make clear to the bike manufacturers or to customers that the chainrings are meant to be used at low cadences. Anyone who was reading Bicycle Guide or Bicycling during the BioPace days read reviews praising the rings to the skies. At first. But once bike racers started buying bikes with BioPace rings, they started complaining about how it felt to pedal with then at high cadences, and the magazine reviews turned negative.
So if you pedal at higher cadences, it makes sense to use round rings or (presumably) Rotor rings and the equivalent. If you like pedaling at lower cadences, you might prefer BioPace.
The irony of the story is that Shimano has been damned for decades for BioPace's non-race-oriented design objective, while Rivendell is praised as a savior for doing essentially the same thing---pushing designs that benefit the casual cyclist and the beeswax-and-tweed-jodphurs crowd.
Anyway, if I had a bike with BioPace chainrings for casual or sport riding, I wouldn't be tempted to rotate or replace them.
After all, most people who cycle for transportation and pleasure---in other words, most of the cyclists in the world---pedal along at cadences below 80 rpm. Someone at Shimano clearly noticed this fact and asked their engineers to design a chainring that was more comfortable and efficient at such cadences. They did, and it is.
The problem was that Shimano didn't make clear to the bike manufacturers or to customers that the chainrings are meant to be used at low cadences. Anyone who was reading Bicycle Guide or Bicycling during the BioPace days read reviews praising the rings to the skies. At first. But once bike racers started buying bikes with BioPace rings, they started complaining about how it felt to pedal with then at high cadences, and the magazine reviews turned negative.
So if you pedal at higher cadences, it makes sense to use round rings or (presumably) Rotor rings and the equivalent. If you like pedaling at lower cadences, you might prefer BioPace.
The irony of the story is that Shimano has been damned for decades for BioPace's non-race-oriented design objective, while Rivendell is praised as a savior for doing essentially the same thing---pushing designs that benefit the casual cyclist and the beeswax-and-tweed-jodphurs crowd.
There go go those Randomly Capitalized Letters Again.
03-07-19, 12:43 PM
#43
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I have seen BioPace rings before (and own a few), just wanted to see what yours looked like after everyone banged on it with a hammer to try to make it straight again.
But, you do you...
But, you do you...
03-07-19, 01:23 PM
#44
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Read the post below. Just because high cadence riders didn't like them, doesn't mean they "didn't work." This has nothing to do with rephrasing.
Originally Posted by Bakerjw
Ever try to change the rear spark plugs on a Monza? Designed by engineers.
I understand what you are saying though but oftentimes marketing overrules engineers.
I understand what you are saying though but oftentimes marketing overrules engineers.
03-07-19, 01:27 PM
#45
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I was wondering if the OP was a native German speaker, but the capitalization isn't limited to nouns.
03-07-19, 01:33 PM
#46
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That was my first thought as well.
03-07-19, 03:13 PM
#47
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Damn right I Banged on it. And had a lot of fun doing it. Didn't know what I was doing, but had a lot of fun and a good Laugh afterwards.
03-07-19, 04:37 PM
#48
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Perhaps he meant 90 degrees plus or minus a fudge factor.
Anyway, if I had a bike with BioPace chainrings for casual or sport riding, I wouldn't be tempted to rotate or replace them.
After all, most people who cycle for transportation and pleasure---in other words, most of the cyclists in the world---pedal along at cadences below 80 rpm. Someone at Shimano clearly noticed this fact and asked their engineers to design a chainring that was more comfortable and efficient at such cadences. They did, and it is.
The problem was that Shimano didn't make clear to the bike manufacturers or to customers that the chainrings are meant to be used at low cadences. Anyone who was reading Bicycle Guide or Bicycling during the BioPace days read reviews praising the rings to the skies. At first. But once bike racers started buying bikes with BioPace rings, they started complaining about how it felt to pedal with then at high cadences, and the magazine reviews turned negative.
So if you pedal at higher cadences, it makes sense to use round rings or (presumably) Rotor rings and the equivalent. If you like pedaling at lower cadences, you might prefer BioPace.
The irony of the story is that Shimano has been damned for decades for BioPace's non-race-oriented design objective, while Rivendell is praised as a savior for doing essentially the same thing---pushing designs that benefit the casual cyclist and the beeswax-and-tweed-jodphurs crowd.
Anyway, if I had a bike with BioPace chainrings for casual or sport riding, I wouldn't be tempted to rotate or replace them.
After all, most people who cycle for transportation and pleasure---in other words, most of the cyclists in the world---pedal along at cadences below 80 rpm. Someone at Shimano clearly noticed this fact and asked their engineers to design a chainring that was more comfortable and efficient at such cadences. They did, and it is.
The problem was that Shimano didn't make clear to the bike manufacturers or to customers that the chainrings are meant to be used at low cadences. Anyone who was reading Bicycle Guide or Bicycling during the BioPace days read reviews praising the rings to the skies. At first. But once bike racers started buying bikes with BioPace rings, they started complaining about how it felt to pedal with then at high cadences, and the magazine reviews turned negative.
So if you pedal at higher cadences, it makes sense to use round rings or (presumably) Rotor rings and the equivalent. If you like pedaling at lower cadences, you might prefer BioPace.
The irony of the story is that Shimano has been damned for decades for BioPace's non-race-oriented design objective, while Rivendell is praised as a savior for doing essentially the same thing---pushing designs that benefit the casual cyclist and the beeswax-and-tweed-jodphurs crowd.
03-08-19, 11:50 AM
#49
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Rode to work this morning in a gear (sometimes two) higher than usual, just to slow down my cadence and see if I could feel some of the BioPace science working for me.
It felt pretty good, but I have no basis for comparison because I've never tried something similar on any of my other bikes. I was trying to perceive the effect of the biopace on each pedal stroke, but I honestly didn't notice much. More testing to come.
It felt pretty good, but I have no basis for comparison because I've never tried something similar on any of my other bikes. I was trying to perceive the effect of the biopace on each pedal stroke, but I honestly didn't notice much. More testing to come.
03-08-19, 12:35 PM
#50
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One thing Absolute Black does is vary the ovality based on the size of the ring. This makes sense, at least on paper.
I'm going to be purchasing Absolute Black subcompact rings for my gravel bike over the next weeks/months and have written myself a note to post the results here. TBH, I'm doing it because they are bolt-on subcompact rings for Shimano cranks and not because they are oval.
-Tim-
Last edited by TimothyH; 03-08-19 at 12:49 PM.