Embracing hills
06-19-18, 10:04 PM
#1
Newbie
Thread Starter
Embracing hills
tl;dr; I'm finally getting fit again and want advice on hill intervals to maximize my power (and endurance). I love hills! And I'm trying to emulate Froome's high cadence riding style, as I find it works well for me.
Some background:
So as I get older, I get wiser. I'm also not using a computer these days, which probably makes hills/life in the saddle easier (no more torturing myself to reach a certain average speed or whatever). I guess I started riding seriously when I was around 25. Just when I was starting to get fit (the fittest I've ever been on a bike) my bike got stolen (I was 28 or 29); over the next nine years, multiple mishaps with bikes and other interests meant I never got properly fit again. Every couple years I'd make a half-arsed stab at it again, but I never did enough rides to get strong, and was always expecting my fitness to return quicker than was realistic.
Last season I occasionally managed two or three rides a week, but that was probably only three weeks out of the whole season; otherwise it was mostly one group ride a week. I had a couple month long stints during the season not riding at all. Despite that, I maintained decent performance (relatively speaking) but nothing like my peak days nine years prior.
This season I finally acknowledged I'm just not riding enough to get strong. Someone from the weekly group ride said he was going to be doing one of the bigger hills in the area every day. The hill he was referring to happens to be less than a mile from my house. Why haven't I been riding this hill all these years? Because the only way I was interested in riding hills was if I was going to beat a personal record. This sort of thinking makes riding hills ... something that (for me) can only be done occasionally ; which, by a two-fold way, means the hills are super unpleasant: 1, because I'm only doing them occasionally, so my muscles aren't used to doing hills, and two, because I'm killing myself on the hills, riding to my absolute limit.
I've done the local climb twelve times (ten rides) in the last three weeks. The last two rides up the mountain were doubles. One other ride also had hills (2900+ feet, 41 miles) as well. The double on the local hill is 3300 feet over 38 miles.
Now I'm 38 and with the years comes wisdom! I joined my new friend from the group rides on my local hill, and when he started making poor excuses to not continue regularly, I did them alone. But I acknowledged that trying to be a hero each time was simply not an approach I was going to be able to sustain; so I finally heeded my older brother's advice and paced myself. I think the reason I've been afraid of pacing myself on rides, is because I'm afraid I'm going to become complacent and comfortable and never want to put myself through pain again, and end up only riding at my comfort level, instead of trying to make my legs bleed. Well, I think these fears are unfounded. Each time I did the climb, my time was slower; I posted no PRs of any kind, and on paper, these rides looked unimpressive, and while I was riding hard, I wasn't pushing myself over the top at the end of the climbs (as has been my MO), and I was pacing myself throughout, and very choosy about when I push the gas more (usually near the end of the ride I would amp it up). Don't get me wrong, I was riding hard, but never into what I guess is VO2 threshold? (except at the end on some rides) But above lactate threshold (I think).
Basically I read online to instead of have rides where you are really going deep into the pain, have rides that are hard, but you can ride again the next day, if you want to be able to build fitness faster. But I'm pretty sure conventional wisdom has it, if you ride hard all the time, rather than changing up rides, you will hit a wall pretty soon. Tonight one of the veteran riders suggested I do hill intervals as the fastest way to improve. I took three days off since the last double, and had a very good ride today in the group ride today. I got KOMs (within the group) on every single hill, blowing away "the competition". So I think all those climbing rides paid off! But now I want to develop a more precise hill training schedule going forward.
Oh, another major change since my prime days riding is that I am now all about higher cadence. I guess I was inspired by Froome. I'm also tall and skinny like him. And I also now look down at my pedals when my legs and lungs start protesting, and I find it really helps me focus on keeping turning the pedals over, and not gassing out. Seeing him wiz up hills in the last few TDFs really sold me on his riding style; and his recent Stage 19 coup on Fenestre in the Giro was pretty sensational (though I didn't see it and can't find it on YT
). My bike actually doesn't let me ride at a fast cadence up steeper hills as the gearing isn't easy enough, but I am upgrading my drivetrain in a few days with a 32 I believe. But it's pretty amusing to accelerate dramatically when clawing up a steep climb when the pitch starts to level out and my cadence gets back up to a reasonable level.
So with all that said, what's a good training schedule? I pretty much can ride just about every day. I generally only work 6 hours during the day and otherwise don't have much of a life and have weekends off.
I'm not too keen on doing flat intervals, (but if they're just as important I suppose I will do them), but I'm *very* keen on doing hill intervals. In the last three weeks I haven't had any of the dread of the hills that used to affect me mentally; and that's pretty exciting, especially since I'm not trying to get personal records every time. Patiently building a base is paying off.
My goals are not to get the KOM on my local hill (but top 10 or 20 would be nice!), but to just be a faster, more powerful rider; and to graduate from the B group ride to the A ride. Today the B ride averaged 17mph over 41.7 miles and a few of us added another hill at the end to bring the elevation up to 2731 ft. The A ride averaged 18.6mph over the same route/elevation. So the A ride shouldn't be too hard to attain. I spent much of the ride today alone out front pushing wind (especially up some of the longer, gradual inclines) because I was worried my newfound fitness was going to leave me with an insufficient workout; this was a very well founded concern, because I still had enough in the tank to take the last two climbs. Every other ride in the last 8 years would have seen me blow up (and I almost did this time) before the end.
I could do intervals on the bottom of my local climb, but it's not an even slope, it undulates between like 5 and 10%.
Some background:
So as I get older, I get wiser. I'm also not using a computer these days, which probably makes hills/life in the saddle easier (no more torturing myself to reach a certain average speed or whatever). I guess I started riding seriously when I was around 25. Just when I was starting to get fit (the fittest I've ever been on a bike) my bike got stolen (I was 28 or 29); over the next nine years, multiple mishaps with bikes and other interests meant I never got properly fit again. Every couple years I'd make a half-arsed stab at it again, but I never did enough rides to get strong, and was always expecting my fitness to return quicker than was realistic.
Last season I occasionally managed two or three rides a week, but that was probably only three weeks out of the whole season; otherwise it was mostly one group ride a week. I had a couple month long stints during the season not riding at all. Despite that, I maintained decent performance (relatively speaking) but nothing like my peak days nine years prior.
This season I finally acknowledged I'm just not riding enough to get strong. Someone from the weekly group ride said he was going to be doing one of the bigger hills in the area every day. The hill he was referring to happens to be less than a mile from my house. Why haven't I been riding this hill all these years? Because the only way I was interested in riding hills was if I was going to beat a personal record. This sort of thinking makes riding hills ... something that (for me) can only be done occasionally ; which, by a two-fold way, means the hills are super unpleasant: 1, because I'm only doing them occasionally, so my muscles aren't used to doing hills, and two, because I'm killing myself on the hills, riding to my absolute limit.
I've done the local climb twelve times (ten rides) in the last three weeks. The last two rides up the mountain were doubles. One other ride also had hills (2900+ feet, 41 miles) as well. The double on the local hill is 3300 feet over 38 miles.
Now I'm 38 and with the years comes wisdom! I joined my new friend from the group rides on my local hill, and when he started making poor excuses to not continue regularly, I did them alone. But I acknowledged that trying to be a hero each time was simply not an approach I was going to be able to sustain; so I finally heeded my older brother's advice and paced myself. I think the reason I've been afraid of pacing myself on rides, is because I'm afraid I'm going to become complacent and comfortable and never want to put myself through pain again, and end up only riding at my comfort level, instead of trying to make my legs bleed. Well, I think these fears are unfounded. Each time I did the climb, my time was slower; I posted no PRs of any kind, and on paper, these rides looked unimpressive, and while I was riding hard, I wasn't pushing myself over the top at the end of the climbs (as has been my MO), and I was pacing myself throughout, and very choosy about when I push the gas more (usually near the end of the ride I would amp it up). Don't get me wrong, I was riding hard, but never into what I guess is VO2 threshold? (except at the end on some rides) But above lactate threshold (I think).
Basically I read online to instead of have rides where you are really going deep into the pain, have rides that are hard, but you can ride again the next day, if you want to be able to build fitness faster. But I'm pretty sure conventional wisdom has it, if you ride hard all the time, rather than changing up rides, you will hit a wall pretty soon. Tonight one of the veteran riders suggested I do hill intervals as the fastest way to improve. I took three days off since the last double, and had a very good ride today in the group ride today. I got KOMs (within the group) on every single hill, blowing away "the competition". So I think all those climbing rides paid off! But now I want to develop a more precise hill training schedule going forward.
Oh, another major change since my prime days riding is that I am now all about higher cadence. I guess I was inspired by Froome. I'm also tall and skinny like him. And I also now look down at my pedals when my legs and lungs start protesting, and I find it really helps me focus on keeping turning the pedals over, and not gassing out. Seeing him wiz up hills in the last few TDFs really sold me on his riding style; and his recent Stage 19 coup on Fenestre in the Giro was pretty sensational (though I didn't see it and can't find it on YT
). My bike actually doesn't let me ride at a fast cadence up steeper hills as the gearing isn't easy enough, but I am upgrading my drivetrain in a few days with a 32 I believe. But it's pretty amusing to accelerate dramatically when clawing up a steep climb when the pitch starts to level out and my cadence gets back up to a reasonable level.So with all that said, what's a good training schedule? I pretty much can ride just about every day. I generally only work 6 hours during the day and otherwise don't have much of a life and have weekends off.
I'm not too keen on doing flat intervals, (but if they're just as important I suppose I will do them), but I'm *very* keen on doing hill intervals. In the last three weeks I haven't had any of the dread of the hills that used to affect me mentally; and that's pretty exciting, especially since I'm not trying to get personal records every time. Patiently building a base is paying off.
My goals are not to get the KOM on my local hill (but top 10 or 20 would be nice!), but to just be a faster, more powerful rider; and to graduate from the B group ride to the A ride. Today the B ride averaged 17mph over 41.7 miles and a few of us added another hill at the end to bring the elevation up to 2731 ft. The A ride averaged 18.6mph over the same route/elevation. So the A ride shouldn't be too hard to attain. I spent much of the ride today alone out front pushing wind (especially up some of the longer, gradual inclines) because I was worried my newfound fitness was going to leave me with an insufficient workout; this was a very well founded concern, because I still had enough in the tank to take the last two climbs. Every other ride in the last 8 years would have seen me blow up (and I almost did this time) before the end.
I could do intervals on the bottom of my local climb, but it's not an even slope, it undulates between like 5 and 10%.
06-19-18, 10:20 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
If you’re riding off the front of the B ride, you might as well go on the A ride right now.
06-20-18, 11:21 AM
#4
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
I'm sorry, maybe this information is embedded in this wall of text but I missed it: how long does it take you to climb this hill?
06-20-18, 04:44 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2017
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 77
Bikes: 2018 Fuji Cross // 2014 Scott Addict 10
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
You seem like the type that would really enjoy training to power. It sounds like you don't have one on your current bike (pardon if I missed it in your post), but training to power has opened my eyes to training. You can find used Stages L-sided power meters for $300~ pretty easily nowadays, and it will allow you to fixate on a power target rather than a personal best which is more sustainable and repeatable (and will allow you to hit your goals more often). So, instead of attacking a hill to try and beat your previous best time, you can effectively do repeats at a set power and pace yourself accordingly.
Check out the TrainerRoad podcast for tips on training... their viewpoint is that most riders need to ride harder during the hard days and easier during easier days to see the best process. I fell right within that bracket... I would accumulate decent training stress each week but was not making the adaptations and progress I wanted. Now that I train to power, and I know what 3-minute VO2 Max intervals feel like, I realize I wasn't even really training before.
Check out the TrainerRoad podcast for tips on training... their viewpoint is that most riders need to ride harder during the hard days and easier during easier days to see the best process. I fell right within that bracket... I would accumulate decent training stress each week but was not making the adaptations and progress I wanted. Now that I train to power, and I know what 3-minute VO2 Max intervals feel like, I realize I wasn't even really training before.
06-20-18, 09:52 PM
#6
Newbie
Thread Starter
Thanks for the reply Matty! I will check out that podcast. So what do 3-minute VO2 Max intervals feel like? How do those intervals feel different than before you got the power meter and started training correctly?
Caloso: Slow.
According to Strava my last ride took 18:32 to do the meat of the climb which is 2.6 miles and 764 ft of elev gain for 5.5% average gradient (max gradient is 10.6%). Avg speed was 8.7mph and 187 watts.
@firebird: good thing I copy and pasted that! I read it as everlasting challenge. Interesting that the majority of those who attempted it were in England; I guess they are starving for hills there. I found a good strava blog about it, but not sure if I'm allowed to link to it?
I'd only have to climb the main part of the climb of my local hill precisely 38 times. Let's say it takes 4:30 to ride down the hill. 18:30 + 4:30 = 23 minutes for each lap. 38 X 23 min = 14.6 hours. Totally doable. XD Dang, that's a total of 197.6 miles. Most I've ever done in a single ride is 62 and that was the last ride I did before my bike got stolen 9 years ago. I dunno; by the end of the summer I could probably do that portion of the climb ten times in a day, but 38? Crazy. I wonder what the ideal gradient is for such a feat.
Caloso: Slow.
According to Strava my last ride took 18:32 to do the meat of the climb which is 2.6 miles and 764 ft of elev gain for 5.5% average gradient (max gradient is 10.6%). Avg speed was 8.7mph and 187 watts.@firebird: good thing I copy and pasted that! I read it as everlasting challenge. Interesting that the majority of those who attempted it were in England; I guess they are starving for hills there.
I found a good strava blog about it, but not sure if I'm allowed to link to it?I'd only have to climb the main part of the climb of my local hill precisely 38 times
. Let's say it takes 4:30 to ride down the hill. 18:30 + 4:30 = 23 minutes for each lap. 38 X 23 min = 14.6 hours. Totally doable. XD Dang, that's a total of 197.6 miles. Most I've ever done in a single ride is 62 and that was the last ride I did before my bike got stolen 9 years ago. I dunno; by the end of the summer I could probably do that portion of the climb ten times in a day, but 38? Crazy. I wonder what the ideal gradient is for such a feat.
06-21-18, 08:53 AM
#7
Senior Member
Without power (or untrained), most will start harder and fade by the end of the first minute.
Last edited by colombo357; 06-21-18 at 11:30 AM.
06-21-18, 04:20 PM
#8
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Sacramento, California, USA
Posts: 40,865
Bikes: Specialized Tarmac, Canyon Exceed, Specialized Transition, Ellsworth Roots, Ridley Excalibur
Mentioned: 68 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2952 Post(s)
Liked 3,106 Times
in
1,417 Posts
Thanks for the reply Matty! I will check out that podcast. So what do 3-minute VO2 Max intervals feel like? How do those intervals feel different than before you got the power meter and started training correctly?
Caloso: Slow. According to Strava my last ride took 18:32 to do the meat of the climb which is 2.6 miles and 764 ft of elev gain for 5.5% average gradient (max gradient is 10.6%). Avg speed was 8.7mph and 187 watts.
@firebird: good thing I copy and pasted that! I read it as everlasting challenge. Interesting that the majority of those who attempted it were in England; I guess they are starving for hills there. I found a good strava blog about it, but not sure if I'm allowed to link to it?
I'd only have to climb the main part of the climb of my local hill precisely 38 times. Let's say it takes 4:30 to ride down the hill. 18:30 + 4:30 = 23 minutes for each lap. 38 X 23 min = 14.6 hours. Totally doable. XD Dang, that's a total of 197.6 miles. Most I've ever done in a single ride is 62 and that was the last ride I did before my bike got stolen 9 years ago. I dunno; by the end of the summer I could probably do that portion of the climb ten times in a day, but 38? Crazy. I wonder what the ideal gradient is for such a feat.
Caloso: Slow.
According to Strava my last ride took 18:32 to do the meat of the climb which is 2.6 miles and 764 ft of elev gain for 5.5% average gradient (max gradient is 10.6%). Avg speed was 8.7mph and 187 watts.@firebird: good thing I copy and pasted that! I read it as everlasting challenge. Interesting that the majority of those who attempted it were in England; I guess they are starving for hills there.
I found a good strava blog about it, but not sure if I'm allowed to link to it?I'd only have to climb the main part of the climb of my local hill precisely 38 times
. Let's say it takes 4:30 to ride down the hill. 18:30 + 4:30 = 23 minutes for each lap. 38 X 23 min = 14.6 hours. Totally doable. XD Dang, that's a total of 197.6 miles. Most I've ever done in a single ride is 62 and that was the last ride I did before my bike got stolen 9 years ago. I dunno; by the end of the summer I could probably do that portion of the climb ten times in a day, but 38? Crazy. I wonder what the ideal gradient is for such a feat.
06-21-18, 04:25 PM
#9
Should Be More Popular
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Malvern, PA (20 miles West of Philly)
Posts: 43,067
Bikes: 1986 Alpine (steel road bike), 2009 Ti Habenero, 2013 Specialized Roubaix
Mentioned: 560 Post(s)
Tagged: 2 Thread(s)
Quoted: 22609 Post(s)
Liked 8,930 Times
in
4,162 Posts
06-21-18, 09:15 PM
#10
Newbie
Thread Starter
So there is the "backside" of the hill I've been doing a lot; that I've done nearly as much. It's a fair bit harder; and there is a nasty (though not very long) hill leading to it. I did that series of hills tonight and then did the front side, so 40.2 miles and 3972 ft vertical. I'm pretty sure that is the most gnarly ride I've ever done; though I didn't have elevation tracking when I was seeking out hills on the 62 mile ride I did back in the day.
I didn't feel good riding today though, which was a surprise, because I was hammering on Tuesday, and took Wednesday off (though I spent 30 minutes on a stationary bike between 100bpm and 130bmp (only briefly) on Wed. The pasta I had for dinner last night had a super heavy cheese sauce that I don't think did me any favors; and kinda nixed my appetite before I was full; so that mighta been part of the problem. But I ate really well the first half of today; though honestly not much in the way of carbs: cheese quesadia and a small portion of yogurt and fruit for b'fast. Some apple slices with vegan cheese, a pea protein smoothie with coconut milk, cashews, as a snack around 10:30am; a large portion of chicken, quinoa and salad for lunch at 12:15pm. I don't normally eat vegan but it was provided at my place of work; I normally eat eggs for b'fast; maybe my body missed them. I wasn't hungry at 3:30pm but I ate a banana anyway, because I'm terrified of going hungry on a hilly ride and I was a little concerned about the low carb intake throughout the day. I drank coffee right before I went on my ride; yet from the start of the ride up until about 3/5 into it I felt like my legs were moving through motor oil. They improved a little after I ate my two shockblocks which do wonders for me. I don't know how those little cubes give me so much energy, but they are life savers; still, while the fruity/candy like cubes provided a noticeable improvement and staved on a sense of impending energetic doom, my legs never felt spritely, or even very willing. I figured since I was so strong on Tuesday, that the rest on Wednesday would mean I'd be strong again on Thursday but no dice. Maybe it was all mental: my riding partner bagged on me again and I was feeling more like a nap than a ride; and I much prefer riding with others than solo; but how could i not take advantage of the longest day of the year?
I guess I should do some recovery rides? I'm not really sure what the best course of action at this point is; what to make of the lackluster-feeling ride. Seems if I keep riding big hills on tired legs that the gains are gonna be a lot less than if I let them recover some; but I don't want to take three days off of riding again. Maybe I'll take tomorrow off, do the 9am Saturday group ride (which is led by some older veteran riders and usually goes at a B+ pace). Take Sunday and Monday off (or commute on Monday, since I've been meaning to start doing that) and suck wind on the A ride come Tuesday.
Don't feel inspired at all to do intervals after that ride. :-/
Oh, I should mention that I ate 6 plates of pasta with a light marinara sauce on Monday night; which, along with the 3 days of rest, may explain why I had the legs to keep attacking the whole ride.
I didn't feel good riding today though, which was a surprise, because I was hammering on Tuesday, and took Wednesday off (though I spent 30 minutes on a stationary bike between 100bpm and 130bmp (only briefly) on Wed. The pasta I had for dinner last night had a super heavy cheese sauce that I don't think did me any favors; and kinda nixed my appetite before I was full; so that mighta been part of the problem. But I ate really well the first half of today; though honestly not much in the way of carbs: cheese quesadia and a small portion of yogurt and fruit for b'fast. Some apple slices with vegan cheese, a pea protein smoothie with coconut milk, cashews, as a snack around 10:30am; a large portion of chicken, quinoa and salad for lunch at 12:15pm. I don't normally eat vegan but it was provided at my place of work; I normally eat eggs for b'fast; maybe my body missed them. I wasn't hungry at 3:30pm but I ate a banana anyway, because I'm terrified of going hungry on a hilly ride and I was a little concerned about the low carb intake throughout the day. I drank coffee right before I went on my ride; yet from the start of the ride up until about 3/5 into it I felt like my legs were moving through motor oil. They improved a little after I ate my two shockblocks which do wonders for me. I don't know how those little cubes give me so much energy, but they are life savers; still, while the fruity/candy like cubes provided a noticeable improvement and staved on a sense of impending energetic doom, my legs never felt spritely, or even very willing. I figured since I was so strong on Tuesday, that the rest on Wednesday would mean I'd be strong again on Thursday but no dice. Maybe it was all mental: my riding partner bagged on me again and I was feeling more like a nap than a ride; and I much prefer riding with others than solo; but how could i not take advantage of the longest day of the year?
I guess I should do some recovery rides? I'm not really sure what the best course of action at this point is; what to make of the lackluster-feeling ride. Seems if I keep riding big hills on tired legs that the gains are gonna be a lot less than if I let them recover some; but I don't want to take three days off of riding again. Maybe I'll take tomorrow off, do the 9am Saturday group ride (which is led by some older veteran riders and usually goes at a B+ pace). Take Sunday and Monday off (or commute on Monday, since I've been meaning to start doing that) and suck wind on the A ride come Tuesday.
Don't feel inspired at all to do intervals after that ride. :-/
Oh, I should mention that I ate 6 plates of pasta with a light marinara sauce on Monday night; which, along with the 3 days of rest, may explain why I had the legs to keep attacking the whole ride.
06-22-18, 12:59 PM
#11
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 1,794
Mentioned: 14 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1027 Post(s)
Liked 326 Times
in
204 Posts
Here's my $0.02 (and that's all it's likely worth so take it with a grain of salt).
For most of us who simply need to be decent, not great, it doesn't have to be too complicated. Do one "long" ride per week, and one or two "fast" rides per week.
The long ride could be either of your A or B group rides (this may make it a "fast" ride too if the group is really pushing things, be ready to cut one of the other "fast" rides if you're unable to recover).
The fast ride should be something where you're pushing the pace. Something like one of the following:
Short intervals: Something like 1 to 3 minute intervals at well over your sustainable pace with anywhere from 1-3 minutes rest in between. Probably aim for somewhere between 8 and 15 minutes total time doing intervals.
Long intervals: 5-10 minute intervals at a pace slightly faster than you can sustain for an hour (you should be pretty tired at the end of these, but able to do several with a few minutes rest in between in a given ride). A good way would be to ride say 8 minutes up your climb, and your rest would be the (presumably shorter) time it takes to come back down. Probably aim for about 20 to 30 minutes of total time doing the intervals.
"sweet spot" rides as defined in one of the posts above
One of the fast group rides as long as you're pushing yourself.
Ultimately the goal is to be riding faster than you normally do. These should be hard and a little bit miserable.
If you decide on two dedicated "fast" days, I'd make one be intervals and one be sweet spot or a group ride but really, do what you enjoy.
Rides beyond that should be fairly easy, but you probably don't have to think too much about this. If you are feeling fresh and want to go hard, that's likely a sign that it's okay to do so.
Really, it likely doesn't even need to be this complex. No doubt this isn't optimal, but it likely is close enough for just about everyone who isn't a serious racer.
Finally, remember that compliance is probably the most important factor in any training plan. Make sure your training schedule is something that 1. you generally enjoy and 2. fits your life schedule. Some super optimal routine that maximizes your training stress while ensuring the perfect amount of recovery is useless if you end up skipping 1/2 of the workouts.
For most of us who simply need to be decent, not great, it doesn't have to be too complicated. Do one "long" ride per week, and one or two "fast" rides per week.
The long ride could be either of your A or B group rides (this may make it a "fast" ride too if the group is really pushing things, be ready to cut one of the other "fast" rides if you're unable to recover).
The fast ride should be something where you're pushing the pace. Something like one of the following:
Short intervals: Something like 1 to 3 minute intervals at well over your sustainable pace with anywhere from 1-3 minutes rest in between. Probably aim for somewhere between 8 and 15 minutes total time doing intervals.
Long intervals: 5-10 minute intervals at a pace slightly faster than you can sustain for an hour (you should be pretty tired at the end of these, but able to do several with a few minutes rest in between in a given ride). A good way would be to ride say 8 minutes up your climb, and your rest would be the (presumably shorter) time it takes to come back down. Probably aim for about 20 to 30 minutes of total time doing the intervals.
"sweet spot" rides as defined in one of the posts above
One of the fast group rides as long as you're pushing yourself.
Ultimately the goal is to be riding faster than you normally do. These should be hard and a little bit miserable.
If you decide on two dedicated "fast" days, I'd make one be intervals and one be sweet spot or a group ride but really, do what you enjoy.
Rides beyond that should be fairly easy, but you probably don't have to think too much about this. If you are feeling fresh and want to go hard, that's likely a sign that it's okay to do so.
Really, it likely doesn't even need to be this complex. No doubt this isn't optimal, but it likely is close enough for just about everyone who isn't a serious racer.
Finally, remember that compliance is probably the most important factor in any training plan. Make sure your training schedule is something that 1. you generally enjoy and 2. fits your life schedule. Some super optimal routine that maximizes your training stress while ensuring the perfect amount of recovery is useless if you end up skipping 1/2 of the workouts.
06-22-18, 02:02 PM
#12
Senior Member
So there is the "backside" of the hill I've been doing a lot; that I've done nearly as much. It's a fair bit harder; and there is a nasty (though not very long) hill leading to it. I did that series of hills tonight and then did the front side, so 40.2 miles and 3972 ft vertical. I'm pretty sure that is the most gnarly ride I've ever done; though I didn't have elevation tracking when I was seeking out hills on the 62 mile ride I did back in the day.
I didn't feel good riding today though, which was a surprise, because I was hammering on Tuesday, and took Wednesday off (though I spent 30 minutes on a stationary bike between 100bpm and 130bmp (only briefly) on Wed. The pasta I had for dinner last night had a super heavy cheese sauce that I don't think did me any favors; and kinda nixed my appetite before I was full; so that mighta been part of the problem. But I ate really well the first half of today; though honestly not much in the way of carbs: cheese quesadia and a small portion of yogurt and fruit for b'fast. Some apple slices with vegan cheese, a pea protein smoothie with coconut milk, cashews, as a snack around 10:30am; a large portion of chicken, quinoa and salad for lunch at 12:15pm. I don't normally eat vegan but it was provided at my place of work; I normally eat eggs for b'fast; maybe my body missed them. I wasn't hungry at 3:30pm but I ate a banana anyway, because I'm terrified of going hungry on a hilly ride and I was a little concerned about the low carb intake throughout the day. I drank coffee right before I went on my ride; yet from the start of the ride up until about 3/5 into it I felt like my legs were moving through motor oil. They improved a little after I ate my two shockblocks which do wonders for me. I don't know how those little cubes give me so much energy, but they are life savers; still, while the fruity/candy like cubes provided a noticeable improvement and staved on a sense of impending energetic doom, my legs never felt spritely, or even very willing. I figured since I was so strong on Tuesday, that the rest on Wednesday would mean I'd be strong again on Thursday but no dice. Maybe it was all mental: my riding partner bagged on me again and I was feeling more like a nap than a ride; and I much prefer riding with others than solo; but how could i not take advantage of the longest day of the year?
I guess I should do some recovery rides? I'm not really sure what the best course of action at this point is; what to make of the lackluster-feeling ride. Seems if I keep riding big hills on tired legs that the gains are gonna be a lot less than if I let them recover some; but I don't want to take three days off of riding again. Maybe I'll take tomorrow off, do the 9am Saturday group ride (which is led by some older veteran riders and usually goes at a B+ pace). Take Sunday and Monday off (or commute on Monday, since I've been meaning to start doing that) and suck wind on the A ride come Tuesday.
Don't feel inspired at all to do intervals after that ride. :-/
Oh, I should mention that I ate 6 plates of pasta with a light marinara sauce on Monday night; which, along with the 3 days of rest, may explain why I had the legs to keep attacking the whole ride.
I didn't feel good riding today though, which was a surprise, because I was hammering on Tuesday, and took Wednesday off (though I spent 30 minutes on a stationary bike between 100bpm and 130bmp (only briefly) on Wed. The pasta I had for dinner last night had a super heavy cheese sauce that I don't think did me any favors; and kinda nixed my appetite before I was full; so that mighta been part of the problem. But I ate really well the first half of today; though honestly not much in the way of carbs: cheese quesadia and a small portion of yogurt and fruit for b'fast. Some apple slices with vegan cheese, a pea protein smoothie with coconut milk, cashews, as a snack around 10:30am; a large portion of chicken, quinoa and salad for lunch at 12:15pm. I don't normally eat vegan but it was provided at my place of work; I normally eat eggs for b'fast; maybe my body missed them. I wasn't hungry at 3:30pm but I ate a banana anyway, because I'm terrified of going hungry on a hilly ride and I was a little concerned about the low carb intake throughout the day. I drank coffee right before I went on my ride; yet from the start of the ride up until about 3/5 into it I felt like my legs were moving through motor oil. They improved a little after I ate my two shockblocks which do wonders for me. I don't know how those little cubes give me so much energy, but they are life savers; still, while the fruity/candy like cubes provided a noticeable improvement and staved on a sense of impending energetic doom, my legs never felt spritely, or even very willing. I figured since I was so strong on Tuesday, that the rest on Wednesday would mean I'd be strong again on Thursday but no dice. Maybe it was all mental: my riding partner bagged on me again and I was feeling more like a nap than a ride; and I much prefer riding with others than solo; but how could i not take advantage of the longest day of the year?
I guess I should do some recovery rides? I'm not really sure what the best course of action at this point is; what to make of the lackluster-feeling ride. Seems if I keep riding big hills on tired legs that the gains are gonna be a lot less than if I let them recover some; but I don't want to take three days off of riding again. Maybe I'll take tomorrow off, do the 9am Saturday group ride (which is led by some older veteran riders and usually goes at a B+ pace). Take Sunday and Monday off (or commute on Monday, since I've been meaning to start doing that) and suck wind on the A ride come Tuesday.
Don't feel inspired at all to do intervals after that ride. :-/
Oh, I should mention that I ate 6 plates of pasta with a light marinara sauce on Monday night; which, along with the 3 days of rest, may explain why I had the legs to keep attacking the whole ride.
I think it was just a shock to your system and you need a few days to recover. Also, eating 10,000 calories to make up for a 2000 calorie effort is less than ideal (I may be exaggerating with those numbers, but you get the idea). Carbo-loading has largely been debunked.
10-10-18, 07:57 PM
#14
Newbie
Thread Starter
I'll take roads with 'hill' in their name for $200 Alex.
Participated in a local race. Did pretty well, as well as I was hoping. Finished with the second pack; averaged 22.5mph on a rolling hill route that finished higher than it started. I seemed to have tapered really well for it and felt like I peaked really nicely for the race. I am now a big fan of leg openers (5x 15sec sprints the day before a race with 4 minute easy pedaling cool down inbetween.
Had a leg-rippin' good ride tonight. Was 77 degrees. Was fun riding into the gloom of twilight as I was climbing an ever diminishing dirt road to nowhere. Rode 36.5 miles, averaged 17mph and climbed 2700+ feet. It's a good sign I have some training left in my legs that I'm still able to tear up my legs. The ride itself is nothing impressive, but for me 17mph for a ride with that much climbing is pretty good. Definitely saw steady gains this summer.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hammockman
Clydesdales/Athenas (200+ lb / 91+ kg)
14
07-09-13 09:41 AM
Underground
Texas
15
02-01-11 06:10 PM
