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Circa 1955 Phillips Step Through SA Dyno-Three Hubs with Working Lights! PHOTOS HEAVY

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Circa 1955 Phillips Step Through SA Dyno-Three Hubs with Working Lights! PHOTOS HEAVY

Old 01-17-15, 11:51 AM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
Two comments and a question:
1. For the handlebars, you could bring things closer to symmetric by bending the bars back. They are steel after all. You can try a long pipe for leverage. It will not be easy but it might make you more comfortable while you wait for replacement bars to show up.
2. On the seat, I had to do that too but have realized over time that the riding position on these bikes is meant to be a little closer to the bars than you might be used to. I'm not suggesting changing anything but give yourself some time to get accustomed to the way the bike feels - you might find yourself moving the seat forward again.
3. How confident are you with JB Weld holding the sleeve? Do you have someone who has tried it and finds it acceptable for the sift cable? On my to-do list is to fix up one of my older cables (I DID use the more modern attachment temporarily) but was going to solder the tube in place. I LOVE JB Weld but wasn't sure about it for something like this.

Keep the reports coming.....I put larger sprockets on the back of all of the family 3-speeds and our collective knees have been thankful. Its not like the 18T was bad, but the larger sprockets just made the bikes more relaxing to ride.
Good information on the saddle position. I was thinking "knee over pedal spindle" the way they would set you up at a proper bike fitting. I still have room to move the saddle forward some. Regarding bending the bars....interesting. I'd have to remove the bars from the bike, right? Put in a clamp or vise.

Regarding the JB Weld - someone else on here mentioned they used it successfully, so I bought some. I've never used it before. If I had a soldering g*n, I would do that. I don't yet have one, but a friend does. (I did​ buy a heat g*n for heat shrink tubing yesterday).
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Old 01-17-15, 05:23 PM
  #152  
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Knee over pedal spindle is bunk. Or rather, it can be a reference point, but it is not a hard and fast rule. Some are religious about it, but that's silly. It's not for everyone. Read Just Ride by Grant Petersen.
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Old 01-17-15, 05:31 PM
  #153  
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1/8" chains don't have the kinds of stresses on them that derailleur chains have, and 1/8" chains are inherently stronger. The result is that any chain will do. KMC is fine. I like KMC derailleur chains, too.
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Old 01-18-15, 11:55 PM
  #154  
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@noglider - I've ready that book couple of years ago. I liked it.

So today I removed old shifter cable, as the housing for it is too short and I frayed some of the tiny wires. I deep cleaned the shifter in ultrasonic cleaner, dried & lightly lubed pivot points inside. Remounted where it actually made sense on the h'bars, measured & cut the housing. I ordered 3/16" clear flexibly heat shrink tubing for the exposed part of the cable (just to make it like my original wire). Anyway I did a sample first and it's the wrong size!!!

Original clear (yellowed) housing is very tight to the wire.

The 3/16" did not sharing down enough. Won't even go through the pulley groove. So, I measured and ordered more from Digi-Key. Great service.

I also took the right side nuts, circiip, cog, spacers, etc. off & deep cleaned and reinstalled for now. Did the same on the left side also. The 22T cog will hopefully arrive late tomorrow.



I found the best way for me to keep track of the order of things while in the ultrasonic cleaner was to put them onto a zip tie in "phases" of things. So now at least, when I go to reassemble the rest of the way I'll start out clean.

That cog is dished apparently - concave on one side & convex toward the outside of the bike. My new cog will be flat, so I'm not sure how to arrange the spacers as to keep things the way they are. Or if I even need to do anything. One spacer comes prior to the cog, then the cog, then the 2nd spacer. So replacing with a flat cog what order would I go? Would it be 2 spacers on, then the cog goes on? Thanks. See photos for current situation. By the way, the stuff under the cog, etc. was gritty/sticky mess.

Circlip, spacer, cog.

Cog, 2nd spacer, and sprocket dustcap (you have no idea how much time I've spent labeling the names of every part of the dynohub diagram, so I will know what they're talking about when I disassemble).



Note: I just noticed that the outer dust cap, which is above the ball cage is in upside down. That flat side that you see is supposed to be faced down Ok, something to watch for when I reassemble after overhaul.
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Old 01-19-15, 06:05 AM
  #155  
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There are normally 2 spacers and you arrange them however you want to get a good chain line. If you had space-sprocket-spacer (closest to hub outward) with a dished sprocket (and the dish was towards the outside as in your picture) then you should try sprocket-spacer-spacer to get the same line (the dish is "worth" approximately 1 spacer). Its not horrible if you are off though.

In the last picture the dust cap is oriented correctly - "open" end towards the hub, forming a cap over the ball ring.
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Old 01-19-15, 08:19 AM
  #156  
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Seems like you're getting close to disassembly of the AG. Got a bench vise?
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Old 01-19-15, 08:35 AM
  #157  
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If you disassemble the hub, take care not to separate the magnet ring from the armature unless you have a "keeper ring" to protect the magnet.
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Old 01-19-15, 08:58 AM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
I've ordered my 22T SA cog and it will be here on Monday. I'll also need to buy a new 1/8" ss chain. Will likely go with KMC, unless there is overwhelming support for something else. Recommendations?

Thanks.
Wippermann Connex for chain. The Connex 100 looks most correct, but I normally buy the Connex 1Z1 zinc coated chain so it won't rust. The Connex 108 is a nice nickel-plated chain, but I have yet to use one. If you shop around you can find them at really good prices.
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Old 01-19-15, 09:09 AM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
There are normally 2 spacers and you arrange them however you want to get a good chain line. If you had space-sprocket-spacer (closest to hub outward) with a dished sprocket (and the dish was towards the outside as in your picture) then you should try sprocket-spacer-spacer to get the same line (the dish is "worth" approximately 1 spacer). Its not horrible if you are off though.

In the last picture the dust cap is oriented correctly - "open" end towards the hub, forming a cap over the ball ring.
Actually @markk900, I think she wants it the other way. If it was situated the way it is in the picture, the two spacers should be to the inside of the cog. In reality, since you don't have a derailleur to worry with, I'd not worry much with the placement of the spacers and the chainline in this case as it won't really make too much difference. The only time I fuss with spacers and ensuring the chainline is perfect is if the chain is overly noisy or if it is frequently dropping. I think I've only ever had an IGH chain drop once or twice over the course of 4-5 years of riding. I wish I could say the same for my bicycles with derailleurs.
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Old 01-19-15, 09:54 AM
  #160  
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@photogravity - I may be misoriented with the picture. @Velocivixen said the new sprocket was flat (not dished), and in the assembled picture the dish was to the outside, putting the sprocket line essentially over the inner spacer. Now that I look again, in the spread out pictures left is out and right is in (didn't notice the orientation the first time). But as stated, chain line is not extremely important in this case. So to clarify my comment about the dust cap: it goes over the ball ring first, with the wider (open) end towards the hub forming a sort of cap over the ball ring. Then I'd put a spacer, the flat sprocket, another spacer, then the circlip to hold it all together.

Now if I am complete out to lunch let me know!
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Old 01-19-15, 10:56 AM
  #161  
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The single speed guys swear by the KMC Z510 HX chain. It is silver though so not really authentic if you are worried about that.
On my bikes, the shift cable coating was interrupted at the pulley - only bare cable went over the pulley.
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Old 01-19-15, 12:12 PM
  #162  
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@markk900 - since I haven't taken the hub completely apart, that smooth cap could be the dust cap that's part of the cone. However I have spent several hours reading, analyzing & re reading the official SA Technical Service manual. When referring to the dust cap that goes onto the driver afteR you place in the caged bearings (eight 1/4"), that dust cap is placed with "the smooth side facing down" and the channeled side facing up.

I have seen seen a couple of online tear downs in which this was inserted NOT according to the formal instructions, which I intend to follow. Since I haven't actually torn it down all the way....yet I will understand it better. I've watched at least 3 videos - more than once and studied the diagram.

When doing sing a task that is complex or detailed I like to study, then "marinate" on it awhile. Then when the time comes it helps me.

New cog, I believe, will be flat. Guess, for kicks I can do the chainline formula & see where things stand.
@noglider - I bought a vintage, made in the US smallish vice - the kind you mount by clamping to the edge of a table. Problem is my table edge won't work, so I'll have to buy a piece of wood or something. My work bench has a wood vice at the end, which worked with this wheel.

Thanks, guys for your attention to detail. It helps. Also that you respond quickly helps.
@JohnDThompson - don't have a keeper, so don't plan on taking them apart from each other. I am wondering what to do if I find a lot of dirt, etc on the armature/magnet. Could I keep them together and carefully brush off the dust or dirt?
@Slash5 - already bought a KMC 1/8" - think it is either 410 or 415 version. I understand that Connex chains are outstanding. Universal Cycles sells them.
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Old 01-19-15, 12:25 PM
  #163  
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Question: For the Sturmey Archer AG Dynohub-Three overhaul, would you order the two ball cages (with eight 1/4" bearings) & corresponding dust covers ahead of time? My plan actually is to use new 1/4" ball bearings and reuse the cages if they're in good condition. I know Harris Cyclery sells them but they're way over yonder, and I'm over here. It would take a bit and I'm chomping at the bit!

Would it be so bad to reuse the cages?
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Old 01-19-15, 12:28 PM
  #164  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
don't have a keeper, so don't plan on taking them apart from each other. I am wondering what to do if I find a lot of dirt, etc on the armature/magnet. Could I keep them together and carefully brush off the dust or dirt?
Yes, keeper rings don't turn up very often so that's what most people end up doing. You can clean more effectively if you can separate the magnet and armature, which was an issue with one Dynohub I acquired that turned out to be full of rust. The rings aren't complicated, and I found this on the web, which should allow any decent machine shop to fabricate one from a piece of steel or iron (dimensions in millimeters):



http://www.os2.dhs.org/~john/Keeper_Ring.pdf

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Old 01-19-15, 12:29 PM
  #165  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
Would it be so bad to reuse the cages?
No, as long as they're in decent condition. That's what I do here.
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Old 01-19-15, 12:34 PM
  #166  
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Hi All. Here's what I'm referring to regarding the "outer dust cap" on the driver over the ball cage. Smooth side down & channeled side up. See #5 on the lined page. Remember, the ball cage goes in the cup with solid ring of the cage facing up so it would make sense that the smooth side of the dust cap faces down.

Servicing The Sturmey-Archer AW Wide-Ratio Three Speed Bicycle Hub

I didn't get that far last night with disassembly, and am suspecting that the thing I saw was the flange/built in dust cap of the right cone. Underneath that would be the "outer dust cap" of the driver, which channels facing up.

You know, looking at and studying the exploded diagram is sort of misleading in that I'm expecting parts to be far apart. When I watch the videos (2), it's immediately clear that the diagram can be misleading as to how it all looks in real life.

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Old 01-19-15, 01:47 PM
  #167  
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If you have a co-op nearby, you might ask about a junk hub to play with. I checked at one place that rebuilds bikes and they sold me 2 hubs for $12, then the bike co-op gave me a very nice hub for nothing - I had bought a bike there recently. Still haven't got around to opening them up.
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Old 01-19-15, 02:28 PM
  #168  
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Originally Posted by Slash5 View Post
If you have a co-op nearby, you might ask about a junk hub to play with. I checked at one place that rebuilds bikes and they sold me 2 hubs for $12, then the bike co-op gave me a very nice hub for nothing - I had bought a bike there recently. Still haven't got around to opening them up.
I regularly frequent 2 coops in Portland. They know me!
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Old 01-19-15, 03:23 PM
  #169  
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I find SA hubs to be $5-$10 in a co-op. I found a 1953 NOS in one recently...
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Old 01-19-15, 04:15 PM
  #170  
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So I can now see where I went wrong. The only dust cap in all of the pictures is the "sprocket dust cap", which is what I was referring to. @Velocivixen was however referring to the "outer dust caps" which go over the two ball cages - one in the driver and one in the left side of the hub (previously known as LB405, now HSA102). Indeed those do get installed with the channel facing outwards. I'll just go slink back into my corner.....
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Old 01-19-15, 07:24 PM
  #171  
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Originally Posted by markk900 View Post
So I can now see where I went wrong. The only dust cap in all of the pictures is the "sprocket dust cap", which is what I was referring to. @Velocivixen was however referring to the "outer dust caps" which go over the two ball cages - one in the driver and one in the left side of the hub (previously known as LB405, now HSA102). Indeed those do get installed with the channel facing outwards. I'll just go slink back into my corner.....
No slinking necessary @markk900. I'm just happy you and the others are helping me out here. There's no better way to learn than to do something, even if I make a mistake, it's a learning mistake.

I picked up the SA 22T cog (silver) and it is NOT flat. It's dished, so I'll just put it in like the other. I would still like to do the chainline measuring exercise to see if it's on the money or not.

I'm very excited to get going on this and I have all the parts I need. It's almost 5:30 p.m. here though and I'm tired. I'll have to force myself to wait until tomorrow, when I'm alert and rested (daylight helps in the vision department too ). To tomorrow I'm gonna do it! Well.....maybe I'll do a little bit​ tonight.
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Old 01-19-15, 08:58 PM
  #172  
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You're learning the difference between how things look in an exploded view illustration and how they look in real life. You get used to it.
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Old 01-21-15, 02:06 AM
  #173  
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DONE! With the Dynohub overhaul. I followed the directions and things worked out just like they were supposed to (mostly). I was relieved, yet somewhat disappointed when I opened up the innards, because obviously someone had been in there over the last 60 years. The ball bearings were shiny as new. I had done the WD-40, followed by 10W-30 motor oil, so that may have helped. I degreased, scrubbed and ultrasonically cleaned everything and reassembled.

Here are some photos:



There was one corroded spot on the magnet, which I cleaned up but it's still there. The hardest and most time consuming part was screwing those tiny 4 nuts back on the screws that hold the armature/magnet in place. The nuts are on the inside of the hub and there are 40 spokes in the way. Removing them was easy with the right tool, but getting them seated and turning & maintaining level took a lot of time to figure out. Had to use the index finger from each hand, woven under some spokes. These 4 nuts took me at least one hour!

Put on the 22T cog, got the new chain on and the wheel installed, hooked up shifter cable....and it didn't work. Well it shifted for a couple times, then I got between gears to where the pedals were spinning but nothing was happening. The indicator pin was not coming all the way in/out. So....off with the wheel, disassemble (not the cog part), driver, ball ring gear ring, and even the planetary gears/housing. Everything looked fine, although the axle key was slightly askew. I think that's why the indicator pin (which screws into the axle key) was hung up and not pulling the clutch to all the positions. I reassembled, reinstalled on the bike and voila! Works every time.

Then, when I went to attach the dyno light wires I see that the terminal nuts are in the wrong position!!!!!! It doesn't mention to pay attention to those nuts when you're reading the "assemble/disassemble" dyno/hub instructions. Way over as a "service note" under the section of how to WIRE the lights it says to ensure that the terminal nuts on the armature are 30 degrees clockwise from the flats of the rear axle!!!!! Took the wheel off, loosened the left cone, adjusted the terminals where I thought they were to go, readjusted cone, reinstalled on the bike - no go. By now I've been in the garage for 10 hours with a banana for lunch. So rinse and repeat a few times until I got the terminal nuts right.

However, there was more than "almost imperceptible" play at the rim. Ugh. Are you kidding me!!!!? I swear I adjusted that cone so many times. Of course when you tighten the lock nut that changes the cone adjustment. It's hard to tell if it's "imperceptible" at the rim without installing onto the bike. I did this several times. Now, it's not perceptible at all. I'm tired. I see my wheel is more out of true than I thought.

I am done for the night. It shifts, has a new cog & chain. I didn't have to move the chain guard when I reinstalled it. I think my chain line is decent. I didn't kill the dyno, didn't accidentally separate the magnet from the armature. My fingernails are trashed.

I know, it's late and I'm going on a bit. I'm getting CR18 rims, some straight gauge spokes and brass nipples (doesn't the last part sound just dandy?) on Thursday or Friday. You know I'm going to try my hand at my first ever wheel. It will be the front wheel.

At this point I'm confident that, if given a bucket of dyno hub parts for a SA dynohub, I could successfully put it all together and it would work.
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Velocivixen is offline  
Old 01-21-15, 06:17 AM
  #174  
markk900
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Congratulations. I hope you slept the sleep of the deserving.....and who needs fingernails anyway..

Oh, and for those long shop sessions you need more nutrition than a banana....I use the following supplement:

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Old 01-21-15, 06:56 AM
  #175  
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Originally Posted by Velocivixen View Post
....

At this point I'm confident that, if given a bucket of dyno hub parts for a SA dynohub, I could successfully put it all together and it would work.
VV - You are the awesome-ist! Having conquered the reassembly of a Sturmey Dynohub (several times ), nothing can now stand in your way!
Your first foray into wheel building will seem like child's play.
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