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Is it possible to ride a bike with ZERO pain and discomfort around the butt region?

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Is it possible to ride a bike with ZERO pain and discomfort around the butt region?

Old 01-16-17, 07:19 PM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
I must not have a "Brooks" butt, either that or those who fawn over them don't move in their saddles *at any time* during their 150 mile painless rides.

I sat on a bike with one and could feel nothing but the hard, steel rail/ridge at the back of the saddle if I slid towards the rear of the saddle which I often due when riding, even hanging my behind "off" as it were, the rear of the saddle.

How the heck can you live with that steel ridge/rail under the leather? Are you motionless in your Brooks?

I need a saddle that allows me to slide back and forth, not one that "locks me in" to one position, so that counts the Brooks or any "suspended" saddle out afaik.

And "no" to the original question.
I move quite a bit in the saddle ... and yet I find Brooks saddles very comfortable. I can do long, long, LONG rides and not notice any saddle-related discomfort.

I also don't know what you're talking about when you say, "the hard, steel rail/ridge at the back of the saddle".


I think I mentioned earlier that I try to build up my core so that I don't put all my weight on the saddle. Much of my weight is on my feet when I ride. Maybe that would help. Do some core work.
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Old 01-16-17, 08:14 PM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I think I mentioned earlier that I try to build up my core so that I don't put all my weight on the saddle. Much of my weight is on my feet when I ride. Maybe that would help. Do some core work.
This, and also this, plus this.

If you are sitting on the saddle, you will hurt. Same as if you carry your weight on tour hands ... too much pressure on too small an area.

Riding should be like jogging while leaning ... you should be supported by your legs, on the balls of your feet. Much less what ion the butt, much, much less on the hands. If your legs and lower back and stomach are working right, no part of you should hurt.

I just got off my bike ... it has a Vader VD-104 Bicycle Saddle, which cost me about $11 and has been one of the most comfortable saddle I have ever ridden. it just seems to fit my pelvis. No need to spend hundreds on a seat---buy a few different shapes and sizes and experiment with very slight fore-and-aft and angle adjustments.

Last edited by Maelochs; 01-17-17 at 01:38 PM.
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Old 01-16-17, 10:55 PM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
...

I also don't know what you're talking about when you say, "the hard, steel rail/ridge at the back of the saddle".

...
Look under the saddle. What do you call that piece of steel they rivet the leather to at the back of the saddle? I call it rail for lack of better term. The one on the Brooks I sat on could be felt in a very pronounced fashion when I slid back on the saddle giving the impression of hard ridge, and seeing as I spend some time "back there" when I ride, I said "I think I'll pass". Sure, I could do better on my core, but I'm not all that bad in that area, IMO. Like I said, I think I don't have a "Brooks butt".

I'm going to have to try another one some day. Maybe I just sat on the wrong one for me.
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Old 01-16-17, 11:05 PM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
This, and also this, plus this.

If you are sitting on the saddle, you will hurt. Same as if you carry your weight on tour hands ... too much pressure on too small an area.

Riding should be like jogging while leaning ... you should be supported by your legs, on the balls of your feet. Much less what ion the butt, much, much less on the hands. If your legs and lower back and stomach are working right, no part of you should hurt.

I just got off my bike ... it has a Vader VD-104 Bicycle Saddle, which cost me about $11 and has been one of the most comfortable saddle I have ever ridden. it just seems to fit my pelvis. No need to spend hundreds on a seat---buy a few different shapes and sizes and experiment with very slight fore-and-aft and angle adjustments.
So, at what point does saddle height/lay/angle and reach to the bars come into this equation? If you have the right saddle height re leg extension/lay/angle and reach what more can you do re weight distribution? Ride standing? Sorry, I don't see comparisons to jogging when talking about relieving sore butts.

Ultimately, one needs the right saddle for his butt type be it 11.00 or 110.00, there's no way around that IMO. And that may take some time and expense unfortunately.
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Old 01-16-17, 11:19 PM
  #105  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I think I mentioned earlier that I try to build up my core so that I don't put all my weight on the saddle. Much of my weight is on my feet when I ride. Maybe that would help. Do some core work.

Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Riding should be like jogging while leaning ... you should be supported by your legs, on the balls of your feet. Much less what ion the butt, much, much less on the hands. If your legs and lower back and stomach are working right, no part of you should hurt.
Perhaps if one approaches cycling as a sport, but many don't care to, and there are other ways to address the issue.
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Old 01-17-17, 12:02 AM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Perhaps if one approaches cycling as a sport, but many don't care to, and there are other ways to address the issue.
I'm approaching it as something I do for hours and hours and hours and days on end.
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Old 01-17-17, 12:17 AM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
I'm approaching it as something I do for hours and hours and hours and days on end.
Are you suggesting your way is the best, or only way for everyone for how they ride, or simply what you prefer for how you ride?
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Old 01-17-17, 01:11 AM
  #108  
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Originally Posted by kickstart View Post
Are you suggesting your way is the best, or only way for everyone for how they ride, or simply what you prefer for how you ride?
What do you think?

Read what I said again and give it some thought.
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Old 01-17-17, 02:45 AM
  #109  
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It is absolutely possible to ride in comfort. Seat pain is usually temporary, and goes away after you have ridden enough time. On long rides (50 or more miles) all I get is tired hands and feet.

Last edited by Sangetsu; 01-17-17 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 01-17-17, 05:35 AM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
So, at what point does saddle height/lay/angle and reach to the bars come into this equation?
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
No need to spend hundreds on a seat---buy a few different shapes and sizes and experiment with very slight fore-and-aft and angle adjustments.
Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
If you have the right saddle height re leg extension/lay/angle and reach what more can you do re weight distribution? Ride standing? Sorry, I don't see comparisons to jogging when talking about relieving sore butts.
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
....you should be supported by your legs, on the balls of your feet. Much less what ion the butt, much, much less on the hands.
Yes, you might have to spend some money .... but if you have an idea of how wide your ischial loops are (already addressed above by others) then you can narrow the range.

I mention how cheap my saddle is only because a lot of people will recommend saddles costing a hundred or a couple hundred dollars, and swapping saddles that cost that much is a game for the very wealthy only.

Good luck with your search.

Last edited by Maelochs; 01-17-17 at 05:39 AM.
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Old 01-17-17, 07:48 AM
  #111  
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I looked up Ischial Brusitis. Might be what some might have.

Ischial Bursitis - Symptoms, Pain, Treatment and Exercises
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Old 01-17-17, 08:09 AM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Yes, you might have to spend some money .... but if you have an idea of how wide your ischial loops are (already addressed above by others) then you can narrow the range.

I mention how cheap my saddle is only because a lot of people will recommend saddles costing a hundred or a couple hundred dollars, and swapping saddles that cost that much is a game for the very wealthy only.

Good luck with your search.
So I guess what you missed in my post was that once as in after your riding position is dialed in, and you still have saddle issues, it's the saddle, not the weight distribution. According to you, any saddle can be dialed in. Not so.

And I still don't see what jogging has to do with riding other than maybe providing some adjunct conditioning. There's nothing even approaching a saddle issue in the world of joggers so if there's no cross analogy, there's no analogy IMO.

The saddle carries the majority of weight, either way you want to slice it. Legs are best used for pedaling. Carrying some body weight is inevitable due to putting power into the strokes, but not the primary focus of pedals or the pedaling motion. Seat comfort ultimately lies with the right saddle for a rider experiencing saddle pain, once he knows his position is optimised. If not, throw your 11.00 saddle out and get a different one, and play with the adjustments until it's comfortable and according to you, you'll arrive at the right riding position.

Optimal rider positioning and saddle comfort can be mutually exclusive. Ultimately, it depends on the match between a rider's anatomy and a saddle design, not totally on how he dials in his position. Case in point, the OP.
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Old 01-17-17, 08:14 AM
  #113  
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Originally Posted by Sangetsu View Post
It is absolutely possible to ride in comfort. Seat pain is usually temporary, and goes away after you have ridden enough time. On long rides (50 or more miles) all I get is tired hands and feet.
why do you have to have pain to even begin with? I think the traditional saddle design is profoundly flawed. No where else do we sit on a padded two-by-four.
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Old 01-17-17, 08:20 AM
  #114  
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I'm a leisure hybrid biker, and most my weight is on the saddle, as I lean forward only slightly half the time and sit up half the time.

I'm now looking for a noseless as I do not want ANY pressure EVER on my crotch area. However LBS's don't carry noseless. Anyone have a noseless recommendation?
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Old 01-17-17, 09:06 AM
  #115  
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Interesting thread. It seems obvious that every body is different and it takes some adjusting to get things right. I must have the semi-golden butt because once I got padded bike shorts I could ride any saddle for a long time (randonneurring) with almost no problems. Chamois Butt'r or similar product eliminates chafing. I prefer one with a cut-out or recessed center. I am near 60 and as we get older gravity alters our anatomy a bit. I can not ride a bike more than a mile or two without bike shorts! Everything is laying loose on the saddle if you know what I mean! The young bucks can boast about riding in the jeans , etc and disparage us who prefer bike shorts by calling them diapers all they want but I suspect they will sing a different tune on the other side of age 40!
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Old 01-17-17, 09:36 AM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by Machka View Post
What do you think?

Read what I said again and give it some thought.
I suggested that there's more than one way to approach cycling, and to be comfortable on a bike regardless of time and distance in the same way one can simply walk 26 miles rather than making it a challenge by running. Apparently you disagree.
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Old 01-17-17, 09:43 AM
  #117  
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Originally Posted by modelmartin View Post
Interesting thread. It seems obvious that every body is different and it takes some adjusting to get things right. I must have the semi-golden butt because once I got padded bike shorts I could ride any saddle for a long time (randonneurring) with almost no problems. Chamois Butt'r or similar product eliminates chafing. I prefer one with a cut-out or recessed center. I am near 60 and as we get older gravity alters our anatomy a bit. I can not ride a bike more than a mile or two without bike shorts! Everything is laying loose on the saddle if you know what I mean! The young bucks can boast about riding in the jeans , etc and disparage us who prefer bike shorts by calling them diapers all they want but I suspect they will sing a different tune on the other side of age 40!
I'm 53 and have simply found there is more than one way to skin a cat when one doesn't approach cycling as a sport.
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Old 01-17-17, 10:03 AM
  #118  
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Originally Posted by TheChosenOne View Post
Is it possible to ride a bike with ZERO pain and discomfort around the butt region?
Yes, and these bikes are called recumbents. I own an Optima LowRacer, and butt pain has never been an issue. Hills, however, suck. And I now really, really hate them. But, back and lower area pain is no longer an issue.

But, no fear, I still ride my Nishiki road bike. I'm considering the Bikeroo saddle. Going away from Gatorskins and going to a titanium rail saddle has helped, but it stills gets uncomfortable after 30 miles. Anyone have experience with the Bikeroo saddle?
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Old 01-17-17, 01:51 PM
  #119  
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Somehow you are reading words I did not write and not understanding or accepting words I did write.

Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
So I guess what you missed in my post was that once as in after your riding position is dialed in, and you still have saddle issues, it's the saddle, not the weight distribution. According to you, any saddle can be dialed in. Not so.
Dude, if I had said, "Any saddle had been dialed in," as you claim, well, did you overlook where I said (Actually said)
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
No need to spend hundreds on a seat---buy a few different shapes and sizes and experiment with very slight fore-and-aft and angle adjustments.
Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
And I still don't see what jogging has to do with riding other than maybe providing some adjunct conditioning. There's nothing even approaching a saddle issue in the world of joggers so if there's no cross analogy, there's no analogy IMO.
I am about to make this Exceedingly clear.
Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
The saddle carries the majority of weight, either way you want to slice it.
This is where you refuse to listen. This is the weak point of your position. This is where you simply refuse to hear.

As I said in Post #102,
Originally Posted by Maelochs View Post
Riding should be like jogging while leaning ... you should be supported by your legs, on the balls of your feet. [Emphasis added]
So long as you keep insisting
Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
The saddle carries the majority of weight, either way you want to slice it. Legs are best used for pedaling. Carrying some body weight is inevitable due to putting power into the strokes, but not the primary focus of pedals or the pedaling motion.
you are going to find bike saddles uncomfortable.

Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
Seat comfort ultimately lies with the right saddle for a rider experiencing saddle pain, once he knows his position is optimised.
Sort of. You really cannot optimize saddle placement on the wrong saddle. An analogy would be that properly lacing shoes which didn’t fit wouldn’t make them fit. If the shape and size of the saddle don’t suit the rider’s anatomy and riding position, there is no “optimal position.”
Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
Optimal rider positioning and saddle comfort can be mutually exclusive.
Then it wouldn’t really be “Optimal,” would it?
Originally Posted by Gweedo1 View Post
Ultimately, it depends on the match between a rider's anatomy and a saddle design, not totally on how he dials in his position
Again, you cannot see the whole picture.

You are saying that if I buy shoes which fit and wear them on the wrong feet I would still be comfortable.

No, obviously.

You have to get the saddle which fits your body, and you have to put the saddle in the right place. Both parts of the equation need to be solved.

Whatever. I have a number of bikes with radically different saddles and very different riding positions, and they are ALL comfortable to ride, because I have the right saddles (for me) in the right positions (for me.)

You can theorize all you want. The proof lies in actually being comfortable ion the bike throughout a long ride ... and I am living proof.

Last edited by Maelochs; 01-17-17 at 01:57 PM.
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Old 01-17-17, 02:22 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
Baah!!! I ride in jeans & T-Shirt, including several century+ rides last year.
Did you start cycling in the '70s bike boom?

My wife drove by my club ride one day and laughed at one of our friends who was riding with us in jeans, flannel shirt and his heavy duty Timberland boat shoes with Vibram soles. He wears cycling shorts sometimes but when he rides to work he wears street clothes like we all did in the '70s. And no matter what he wears, he rides like an animal.
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Old 01-17-17, 03:26 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by GP View Post
Did you start cycling in the '70s bike boom?

My wife drove by my club ride one day and laughed at one of our friends who was riding with us in jeans, flannel shirt and his heavy duty Timberland boat shoes with Vibram soles. He wears cycling shorts sometimes but when he rides to work he wears street clothes like we all did in the '70s. And no matter what he wears, he rides like an animal.
I suppose you could call it that. I never thought of myself as being a "child of the bike boom". But, Dad started doing a pretty wicked bike commute in the mid 70's, and I would have just started riding in the mid 70's, but was already cranking out at least a few miles in the late 70's.

Perhaps it was a different era back then. Mom sewed together a pair of bike shorts for my brother to race in, but most of our riding was in ordinary clothes. I don't think I got the racing shorts.

Anyway, I doubt that I'm your riding buddy, but he sounds like great fun
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Old 01-17-17, 03:34 PM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by MikeinFL View Post
why do you have to have pain to even begin with? I think the traditional saddle design is profoundly flawed. No where else do we sit on a padded two-by-four.
Well, there is conditioning to consider. If you go from sedentary to running 3 to 5 miles, you will get sore thighs, hamstrings, feet and shins until your legs harden up a bit.

Trying Yoga for the first time can be painful, even to do basic poses like downward dog. With practice these poses become as natural as breathing.

Same with riding. If your posterior is soft, it will hurt the first few rides.
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Old 01-17-17, 04:57 PM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by MRT2 View Post
Well, there is conditioning to consider. If you go from sedentary to running 3 to 5 miles, you will get sore thighs, hamstrings, feet and shins until your legs harden up a bit.

Trying Yoga for the first time can be painful, even to do basic poses like downward dog. With practice these poses become as natural as breathing.

Same with riding. If your posterior is soft, it will hurt the first few rides.
Yes, you can tone up your posterior muscles and reduce discomfort in time. What I'm saying is that butt muscles have nothing to do with moving a bike. We do use thighs, hamstrings, feet and shins, and those will naturally have discomfort until you develop them in time. Developing posterior muscles is because of traditional saddle design and nothing to do with moving a bike.

The reason the saddle nose was incorporated is not just for stability but because pedaling a standard bike (pedals close between the wheels) is best done leaning forward and that required something to help hold you in position as you lean forward, and reduce weight on the arms, thus the nose.

The nose worked perfectly to do that, but sitting on your crotch (even partial weight) is not natural or comfortable and may cause health issues. Nevertheless the nose design became standard. You can toughen up the butt, but I don't think it's a good idea to put any pressure on the crotch area. That's why I think most casual bikers ride less then 30 minutes and are done.

Many ergonomic designs have come out as well as noseless designs that have a wide range of user satisfaction in reviews. It's very difficult to try out different saddles because LBS's carry very few brands. I also now thing the term saddle doesn't really describe a bike seat. It's not a saddle! When I hear "saddle" I think for horses. Whoever coined the term for bicycles was a marketing genius.

Someone needs to design a seat that would be noseless, comfortable and provide stability for leaning forward. I have several designs in mind to try and acheive this. One noseless design might have leg pads on small arms that rest on top of the thighs near the waist, to take weight off the arms when leaning forward, provide stability and replacing the purpose of the nose. I thought of this and am claiming patent rights here and now! Today is 1/17/2017

Last edited by MikeinFL; 01-17-17 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 01-17-17, 05:20 PM
  #124  
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Be careful, as the muscles of the lower abdomen aren't good at resisting concentrated forces, and any support arms would have to stick up quite high to hit the front vertical blades of the pelvis, and would be right there to hit in any accident.
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Old 01-17-17, 05:33 PM
  #125  
MRT2
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Bikes: 2012 Salsa Casseroll, 2009 Kona Blast, 1997 Bianchi Advantage, 1994 Trek 930.

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Originally Posted by MikeinFL View Post
Yes, you can tone up your posterior muscles and reduce discomfort in time. What I'm saying is that butt muscles have nothing to do with moving a bike. We do use thighs, hamstrings, feet and shins, and those will naturally have discomfort until you develop them in time. Developing posterior muscles is because of traditional saddle design and nothing to do with moving a bike.

The reason the saddle nose was incorporated is not just for stability but because pedaling a standard bike (pedals between the wheels) is best done leaning forward and that required something to help hold you in position as you lean forward, and reduce weight on the arms, thus the nose.

The nose worked perfectly to do that, but sitting on your crotch (even partial weight) is not natural or comfortable and may cause health issues. Nevertheless the nose design became standard. You can toughen up the butt, but I don't think it's a good idea to put any pressure on the crotch area. That's why I think most casual bikers ride less then 30 minutes and are done.

Many ergonomic designs have come out as well as noseless designs that have a wide range of user satisfaction in reviews. It's very difficult to try out different saddles because LBS's carry very few brands. I also now thing the term saddle doesn't really describe a bike seat. It's not a saddle! When I hear "saddle" I think for horses. Whoever coined the term for bicycles was a marketing genius.

Someone needs to design a seat that would be noseless, comfortable and provide stability for leaning forward. I have several designs in mind to try and acheive this. One noseless design might have leg pads on small arms that rest on top of the thighs near the waist, to take weight off the arms when leaning forward, provide stability and replacing the purpose of the nose. I thought of this and am claiming patent rights here and now! Today is 1/17/2017
Plenty of nose less saddles on the market. Buy one, ride it, and let us know how it works out.
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