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Too Many Irresponsible Cagers

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Too Many Irresponsible Cagers

Old 08-13-19, 05:00 PM
  #51  
Hypno Toad
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
It can't have escaped your notice that fractious relationships of all kinds and between all kinds and groups of people have, in the last two years, exploded into naked hostility bordering on and in some cases crossing over into violence. Now is not the time to express even the mildest hope or optimism for anything substantive to change (for the better) in cyclist/motorist relations.
Hope spring eternal ... but sadly, yes, I've noticed the hate-filled nature of our current culture.
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Old 08-13-19, 06:28 PM
  #52  
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I believe a lot of the motoring public, don't have a clue and can't judge, where the right side (LH drive vehicles) of their vehicle is.
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Old 08-13-19, 07:02 PM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Hypno Toad, yes, "cager" comes from my time riding motorcycles, and is derogatory as people lose half their IQ when they climb in behind the wheel. Cagers are dangerous, never trust them, even when making eye contact. Expect them to do the dumbest, most selfish thing possible at all times. Expect no respect from them. They are cagers.

Car R Coffins.
I agreed with your original post re: the 3-foot rule.

I disagree, however, with your generalizations about drivers.

Like @TrojanHorse, I regularly come across courteous and considerate drivers who actually look out for my well-being.

A few years ago I was going down a tricky and someone dangerous descent. Halfway down I noticed a large, white Chevy Suburban driving slowly behind me. At one point during the descent, I noticed a large line of cars following behind the Suburban. When I finally got to the bottom of the descent I saw that the driver of the Suburban was a Mom with three young kids. She pulled next to me, rolled down the window and apologized for “tailing” me. She said that she just wanted to make sure that I got safely to the bottom of the hill.

A total class act. BTW, none of the cars behind her tried to pass her on the left (or right).

Drivers are not always evil.

Last edited by eja_ bottecchia; 08-14-19 at 07:17 AM.
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Old 08-13-19, 07:14 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
If a car is squeezing by you while an oncoming vehicle goes by you in the other direction, you are too far to the right. Pretty simple fix- move further left.
View yourself as a slow moving vehicle that is respectful of others while still maintaining your rightful place on the road. Move to the right tire dent on the road so there isnt enough room for a vehicle to pass you when oncoming traffic is passing by. And then be cognizant of traffic building up behind you when they cant pass due to road conditions, and move off the road to release the build-up of trailing traffic.

The above suggestion may make some people lose their minds and claim that its unsafe to pull off and let traffic pass or whatever other issue they can take with the suggestion- but I am not suggesting everyone do it, just those who are afraid of being buzzed and clipped and are in areas where vehicles dont respect giving 3', it could help to move over every once in awhile. Or find different routes.


Central Iowa is fantastic, I think. The rural county highways offer some excellent riding- good pavement, rolling hills, and vehicles that typically pass all the way in the other lane. If I were continually buzzed by vehicles closer than 3', I would probably move towards using the extensive paved trail network more, or ride gravel even more often.
These problems can be very geographic.

Here in Nebraska....south of I-80 every driver will not slow down or yield an inch on paved roads, and blast their horn at you while doing it. North of I80 it is varying degrees of dangerous/acceptable. But the gravel/dirt/farm roads are generally only driven by locals who will slow down and give a wide birth with a wave.
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Old 08-14-19, 04:28 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Hypno Toad View Post
Thank you for the response, it's okay that we don't see the issue the same.

To be clear, lane-changing law is something a local advocacy group is lobbying ... I don't hate it, but I'd be cool seeing local PD investing the tech they use in Austin, TX in the story linked. I don't expect to see either thing happen in Minnesota in the foreseeable future.

I honestly do find the objection to bikes on the road as 'causing traffic backups' to be one of the oddest complaints. For years, when somebody says this to me, I ask them about the bikes causing the massive backups on 494 every morning and afternoon and most weekends. The responses are typically deflecting, we in the US have a car-centrist culture and have a hard time seeing cars as the problem.

Moreover, most people fail to acknowledge the motor vehicles that cause many slow downs - a partial list of examples:
Buses (school/city)
Delivery vehicles (USPS, UPS, FedEx, etc)
Garbage trucks
Service vehicles (survey crews, lawn crews, ...)
Road work crews
Construction equipment moving from site-to-site (like the John Deere I saw on today's ride, mowing the shoulders)
Farm equipment in more rural areas
ETC
Many of the above are slower than me on a bike and cause me to slow to maneuver around them. Yet, as a culture, we single out the person on a bike as "the thing" slowing the traffic.

This is a culture thing, I found out 10 years ago while bike-touring in France. We started the morning in Tours and needed to climb a narrow road early in the day, Lisa isn't a climber when warmed up ... so she was slowly grinding up this hill when a delivery truck came up behind us. I was at the back, and based on experiences on the roads in the US, I was on 'red alert'. But the driver calmly idled behind us until the road widened and they could pass safely. They passed at a moderate speed, with generous space. This was the typical interactions we found between people in motor vehicles and people on bikes through our trip. I hope we can make steps towards this level of acceptance for people using bikes on the road.
You're preaching to the choir as far as drivers not having patience for the minor slowdowns that occur when someone takes the lane. The problem with the move over idea is that it would actually make cyclists cause traffic slowdowns just by their mere presence on the right. Lane changes cause their own problems and hazards. I'm not interested in giving "bicyclists block traffic" people a legitimate point for something I don't think will significantly affect safety.

Last edited by livedarklions; 08-14-19 at 06:55 AM.
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Old 08-14-19, 08:36 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post

The more I have to deal with people, the more I dislike them. Rude and irresponsible, and they really don't give a crap.
Do you think referring to them by the derogatory term "cagers" is helping?
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Old 08-14-19, 08:50 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Speedway2 View Post
On the other hand.....when I'm in my "cage" I've seen my share of dumba$$/irresponsible cyclists who don't obey the rules of the road. eg. running stop signs/lights, cutting across lanes diagonally, jumping on/off sidewalks, etc., etc.

I can see why non-cycling Cagers don't give a ratz re cyclists. That said it doesn't make it OK that the safety of others should be ignored.....
Yep. We definitely don't do ourselves any favours when it comes to PR.
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Old 08-14-19, 08:56 AM
  #58  
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A fact about irresponsible people in cars and irresponsible people on bikes - the all have people in common.

It has nothing to do with the mode of transport, jerks are jerks; and kind people are kind people.
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Old 08-14-19, 09:19 AM
  #59  
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I get totally frustrated with the seemingly callous disregard for human life vis a vis what amounts to selfish lack of time management.... Then I remind myself that they are all suffering gits that will have to take another dharmic turn... and wonder if I'll be right there with 'em... again....
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Old 08-14-19, 10:48 AM
  #60  
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How has this thread not been moved to A&S?
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Old 08-14-19, 01:54 PM
  #61  
Leisesturm
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Do you think referring to them by the derogatory term "cagers" is helping?
How is it hurting? Do I have any idea what you call me when you and your wife and/or associates are discussing my posts on BikeForums?
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Old 08-14-19, 01:59 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
How is it hurting? Do I have any idea what you call me when you and your wife and/or associates are discussing my posts on BikeForums?
Do you, perhaps, think that the use of terms like this cause the people reading this forum to see drivers, not as people like us who we should be sharing the road with, but as something else? Something worse? Do you think that the use of this term promotes cooperation or animosity and disdain?

Not to mention the impression it would make on a non-cyclist who reads this thread.
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Old 08-14-19, 02:11 PM
  #63  
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"Drivers are not always evil."

Certainly not always evil, but most certainly cannot be trusted. Ride a motorcycle for a year and you may understand. I apply this same attitude toward cagers when on the bicycle. It has kept me alive thus far, so no sense in changing it.

As for "cager", I could call them "a@hats behind the wheel". Will that work? Lighten up and take a pill if it helps.

On the positive side, out for 30 this am and two cars used the other lane when passing. Miracles do happen.
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Old 08-14-19, 02:22 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Daniel4 View Post
The only thing you can do is to move into the car lane. Just make sure you're taking the lane so you won't be squeezed with close passes. Impatient drivers behind you will just have to wait until you find a clear spot in the bike lane in which to return.
No, that isn't the only thing you can do. You can move into the car lane and stay to the right in it, even if it means possibly being close passed. Would you rather the impatient driver behind you pull over into oncoming traffic and have a head on collision? Do you know what happens to a cyclist when they are struck by a car or part of a car that has just been involved in a high speed collision with another car? The other morning our tandem was passing another bike in the bike lane so we pulled out in the vehicle lane to pass it. I am already heading back into the bike lane only to find it full of CAR! Very fast moving car! In just a fraction of a second he had decided that the fastest way around us was to use the bike lane to pass us on the right! We were well on our way to slamming right into him and he into us because he didn't have the patience of an atomic particle, but more than that, he was triggered by our leaving the bike lane in the first place. So, no, impatient drivers don't "have to wait" until you relinquish the car lane in your own time. He was thrown by the size and shape of the tandem. I had left him plenty of room to pass properly on the left without leaving his lane but he didn't realize that. I firmly believe in sharing the road, even after this latest example of motorist forbearance.
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Old 08-14-19, 02:51 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by OBoile View Post
Do you, perhaps, think that the use of terms like this cause the people reading this forum to see drivers, not as people like us who we should be sharing the road with, but as something else? Something worse? Do you think that the use of this term promotes cooperation or animosity and disdain?

Not to mention the impression it would make on a non-cyclist who reads this thread.
When I am sub-consciously computing the sweetest line around a cager parked in the bikelane, or filtering past a 1/4 mile queue of cagers at the freeway on-ramp, or deftly operating the 3x8sp drivetrain of our commute tandem while setting up for the left turn that I refuse to take like a pedestrian. When I am doing all that, BikeForums is far from uppermost in my thoughts. Cagers have been called that since before I was interested in motorcycles and started reading bike magazines in the 70's. I think they've gotten used to it. Besides ... it's what they is. If we were to start calling them 'murderous morons', 'mouth breathers', 'entitled ^*&^#'s' ... no, I think they've done well to not have things escalate past 'cager' after all this time. I acknowledge each and every courtesy I receive on the road with a wave or other sign of goodwill. I don't see the term cager as anything other than descriptive. I imagine few, if any, non-cyclists make it this far so as to be infected with our culture and its biases.
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Old 08-14-19, 03:22 PM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Leisesturm View Post
When I am sub-consciously computing the sweetest line around a cager parked in the bikelane, or filtering past a 1/4 mile queue of cagers at the freeway on-ramp, or deftly operating the 3x8sp drivetrain of our commute tandem while setting up for the left turn that I refuse to take like a pedestrian. When I am doing all that, BikeForums is far from uppermost in my thoughts. Cagers have been called that since before I was interested in motorcycles and started reading bike magazines in the 70's. I think they've gotten used to it. Besides ... it's what they is. If we were to start calling them 'murderous morons', 'mouth breathers', 'entitled ^*&^#'s' ... no, I think they've done well to not have things escalate past 'cager' after all this time. I acknowledge each and every courtesy I receive on the road with a wave or other sign of goodwill. I don't see the term cager as anything other than descriptive. I imagine few, if any, non-cyclists make it this far so as to be infected with our culture and its biases.
Why not just be mature and call them "drivers"?
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Old 08-14-19, 04:26 PM
  #67  
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Simply because "driver" embues a sense of responsibility on the "drivers" part, and the whole point is "drivers" are not acting responsible. Again, ride a motorcycle for a year and you will have a whole different perspective on "drivers".

My wife calls me immature all the time. I guess she isn't the only one.
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Old 08-15-19, 04:51 AM
  #68  
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The proper term is "people of cages."

Why isn't this thread in A&S?
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Old 08-15-19, 06:57 AM
  #69  
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On my rides along PCH and on the local hills I have come across many a**hat bikers that come within inches of my legs. Then, for fun, they rev their engines to scare the beejezzus out of any cyclist peacefully riding along (as if we couldn’t already hear them coming down the road). And please don’t get me started on the overly obnoxious fumes left trailing behind by some makes of motorcycles.

Cyclists are not exempt from poor behavior either. Countless times I have across cyclists riding three or four abreast, chit chatting amongst each other, blissfully ignorant of riders coming the opposite direction.

The point is that rude, obnoxious and downright behavior is not confined to drivers; as someone else pointed out, people are people regardless of the mode of conveyance they happen to be using.

A**hat is as A**hat does.

Peace out and ride safely.
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Old 08-15-19, 07:32 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by eja_ bottecchia View Post

Cyclists are not exempt from poor behavior either. Countless times I have across cyclists riding three or four abreast, chit chatting amongst each other, blissfully ignorant of riders coming the opposite direction.

Peace out and ride safely.
I've taken to just yelling "get over" or "get back in your lane" at people who do that. I do not wait until the last second because I really want to avoid the game of chicken and just coming to a stop is no guarantee they won't run into you anyway. Helps to have a big scary voice.
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Old 08-15-19, 07:51 AM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
How has this thread not been moved to A&S?
Lots of disproportionate rage, justification of prejudice, cynicism and plain old complaining in this thread.

It really would fit into A&S.


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Old 08-15-19, 08:27 AM
  #72  
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The A&S regulars would probably be outraged that it wasn't moved there sooner.
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Old 08-15-19, 08:58 AM
  #73  
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Maybe take responsibility for your safety, instead of passively hoping the "cagers" give you the space you desire.
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Old 08-15-19, 09:23 AM
  #74  
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
The A&S regulars would probably be outraged that it wasn't moved there sooner.
The A&S regulars must wait their turn at lots of disproportionate rage, justification of prejudice, cynicism and plain old complaining, the General Cycling Discussion regulars are still gnawing vigorously on this bone.
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Old 08-15-19, 10:57 AM
  #75  
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Originally Posted by TiHabanero View Post
Simply because "driver" embues a sense of responsibility on the "drivers" part, and the whole point is "drivers" are not acting responsible. Again, ride a motorcycle for a year and you will have a whole different perspective on "drivers".

My wife calls me immature all the time. I guess she isn't the only one.
This is one of the most silly things I have ever read. Yes, some drivers are bad, but most are decent. The same can be said for people on motorcycles or bikes. There's nothing helpful, or beneficial to insulting different groups of people as a whole like you insist on doing. If drivers were half as bad as you make them out to be, no one would ever survive a year on a motorcycle.
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