Yet another Bernard Carré
06-16-20, 03:47 PM
#1
If I own it, I ride it
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 662 Times
in
311 Posts
Yet another Bernard Carré
MODS: Can you move this post to C&V? I would have deleted and redone it but delete post seems to have disappeared.
Is there a Bernard Carré Anonymous group out there? Maybe I should found one.
I bought this one because it was my size. Well yes and no. It is for the chrome, which was an extra cost item on his frames. The chrome on the seat stay cap, head lugs and crown often seem to be trashed. This example the chrome is in nice shape. Not so much the stays and fork socks. But that does not matter so much as the NDS drive stay will need to be replaced. This will go off to Jack at Franklin Frame. Of interest to me is the fact that this is another repainted private label frame. Abel Borne can be made out on the DT. I have seen this marque on several BC frames and also on other makers. Anyone know of Abel Borne? Not much to be found on the "nets".
With the refinish, I have a clean slate for color choice. Current color deeper in person. (Camera and monitor skew the appearance) I am considering an orange Team BiC Jacques Anquetil scheme since BC did build for JA, although I cannot confirm he was doing so when JA rode for BiC. And truth be told, I am leaning that way because Jan Janssen rode for BiC also with JA.
But I want to hear some suggestions. I would kind of like to do something different from AFCB. (Another Flippin Campagnolo Bike). Give me some ideas.
Bernard Carré/Abel Borne 1 by L Travers, on Flickr
Is there a Bernard Carré Anonymous group out there? Maybe I should found one.
I bought this one because it was my size. Well yes and no. It is for the chrome, which was an extra cost item on his frames. The chrome on the seat stay cap, head lugs and crown often seem to be trashed. This example the chrome is in nice shape. Not so much the stays and fork socks. But that does not matter so much as the NDS drive stay will need to be replaced. This will go off to Jack at Franklin Frame. Of interest to me is the fact that this is another repainted private label frame. Abel Borne can be made out on the DT. I have seen this marque on several BC frames and also on other makers. Anyone know of Abel Borne? Not much to be found on the "nets".
With the refinish, I have a clean slate for color choice. Current color deeper in person. (Camera and monitor skew the appearance) I am considering an orange Team BiC Jacques Anquetil scheme since BC did build for JA, although I cannot confirm he was doing so when JA rode for BiC. And truth be told, I am leaning that way because Jan Janssen rode for BiC also with JA.
But I want to hear some suggestions. I would kind of like to do something different from AFCB. (Another Flippin Campagnolo Bike). Give me some ideas.
Bernard Carré/Abel Borne 1 by L Travers, on Flickr
Last edited by CV-6; 06-16-20 at 03:54 PM.
06-16-20, 04:11 PM
#2
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Kalamazoo MI
Posts: 20,650
Bikes: Fuji SL2.1 Carbon Di2 Cannondale Synapse Alloy 4 Trek Checkpoint ALR-5 Viscount Aerospace Pro Colnago Classic Rabobank Schwinn Waterford PMount Raleigh C50 Cromoly Hybrid Legnano Tipo Roma Pista
Mentioned: 58 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3089 Post(s)
Liked 6,593 Times
in
3,781 Posts
Thread moved from C&V Sales to C&V.
06-16-20, 04:53 PM
#3
"part timer"
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Tidewater VA
Posts: 622
Bikes: 1975 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1978 Bertin C35, 1982 Trek 614, 1983 Trek 620, 1984 Nishiki Seral, 1995 Mercian Ko’M, 1998 Fisher HKEK, 2000 Rivendell RS, 2001 Heron Touring, 2016 Nobilette Custom
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 114 Post(s)
Liked 160 Times
in
61 Posts
You’re gonna corner the market on Carre bikes here pretty soon! I had one once, a Carre-built Bertin C35 that now has a permanent happy home with BertinJim.
I like your team BiC idea. That’d be sharp. I vote for going all French - Stronglight 93, MAFAC Competition, Simplex LJ, Maillard 700.
I like your team BiC idea. That’d be sharp. I vote for going all French - Stronglight 93, MAFAC Competition, Simplex LJ, Maillard 700.
06-16-20, 05:22 PM
#4
Senior Member
Obviously you needed another one. 
That's very cool.
I'm only slightly embarrassed to say I like the current color as it is. If it was my bike I'd go for a similar but darker shade of plum purple, or a 70s lime/gold metallic color. I like orange bikes too, but I think with all that fancy chrome bling, the paint needs a bit more flash to keep up. I could see metallic orange though. Are you going to keep the contrast panel? Are the socks going to get rechromed or painted over?
That's very cool.I'm only slightly embarrassed to say I like the current color as it is. If it was my bike I'd go for a similar but darker shade of plum purple, or a 70s lime/gold metallic color. I like orange bikes too, but I think with all that fancy chrome bling, the paint needs a bit more flash to keep up. I could see metallic orange though. Are you going to keep the contrast panel? Are the socks going to get rechromed or painted over?
06-17-20, 10:41 AM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2020
Posts: 331
Bikes: '68 Masi Special road, Grail bike
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 108 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 70 Times
in
58 Posts
your Carre is perfect for a build I've long thought of which is NO Campy
but instead the best of the best in late 70s French parts,just my thoughts mind you
TA Tevano cranks, TA or Rodger Peel pedals, Jubile derailleurs, Mafac sidepulls
Pelissier 2000 hubs, Ideale 2002 saddle. Viva la France!
but instead the best of the best in late 70s French parts,just my thoughts mind you
TA Tevano cranks, TA or Rodger Peel pedals, Jubile derailleurs, Mafac sidepulls
Pelissier 2000 hubs, Ideale 2002 saddle. Viva la France!
Likes For steve sumner:
06-17-20, 11:23 AM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: NW Burbs, Chicago
Posts: 12,053
Mentioned: 201 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3015 Post(s)
Liked 3,793 Times
in
1,407 Posts
What's wrong with the ds chain stay?
I dig the magenta.
I dig the magenta.
06-17-20, 11:29 AM
#7
Senior Member
With those French tricolor stickers, yes, it should be an all Frenchie build. I'd like to see, Stronglight 105 BIS cranks, Jubilee or SLJ derailleurs, Maxicar hubs, retrofriction shifters, CLB brakes.
Those obnoxious gold Mafac Competions that were popular in the late 70s to very early 80s might be an option.
Those obnoxious gold Mafac Competions that were popular in the late 70s to very early 80s might be an option.
06-17-20, 04:52 PM
#8
Extraordinary Magnitude
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Waukesha WI
Posts: 13,646
Bikes: 1978 Trek TX700; 1978/79 Trek 736; 1984 Specialized Stumpjumper Sport; 1984 Schwinn Voyageur SP; 1985 Trek 620; 1985 Trek 720; 1986 Trek 400 Elance; 1987 Schwinn High Sierra; 1990 Miyata 1000LT
Mentioned: 84 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2608 Post(s)
Liked 1,699 Times
in
935 Posts
With those French tricolor stickers, yes, it should be an all Frenchie build. I'd like to see, Stronglight 105 BIS cranks, Jubilee or SLJ derailleurs, Maxicar hubs, retrofriction shifters, CLB brakes.
Those obnoxious gold Mafac Competions that were popular in the late 70s to very early 80s might be an option.
Those obnoxious gold Mafac Competions that were popular in the late 70s to very early 80s might be an option.
__________________
*Recipient of the 2006 Time Magazine "Person Of The Year" Award*
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
Commence to jigglin’ huh?!?!
"But hey, always love to hear from opinionated amateurs." -says some guy to Mr. Marshall.
06-17-20, 05:28 PM
#9
If I own it, I ride it
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 662 Times
in
311 Posts
Obviously you needed another one. That's very cool.
I'm only slightly embarrassed to say I like the current color as it is. If it was my bike I'd go for a similar but darker shade of plum purple, or a 70s lime/gold metallic color. I like orange bikes too, but I think with all that fancy chrome bling, the paint needs a bit more flash to keep up. I could see metallic orange though. Are you going to keep the contrast panel? Are the socks going to get rechromed or painted over?
That's very cool.I'm only slightly embarrassed to say I like the current color as it is. If it was my bike I'd go for a similar but darker shade of plum purple, or a 70s lime/gold metallic color. I like orange bikes too, but I think with all that fancy chrome bling, the paint needs a bit more flash to keep up. I could see metallic orange though. Are you going to keep the contrast panel? Are the socks going to get rechromed or painted over?
NDS stay.
With those French tricolor stickers, yes, it should be an all Frenchie build. I'd like to see, Stronglight 105 BIS cranks, Jubilee or SLJ derailleurs, Maxicar hubs, retrofriction shifters, CLB brakes.
Those obnoxious gold Mafac Competions that were popular in the late 70s to very early 80s might be an option.
Those obnoxious gold Mafac Competions that were popular in the late 70s to very early 80s might be an option.
06-17-20, 08:11 PM
#10
Disraeli Gears
Great frame -- horrifying chain stay. It's a good thing the frame found you.
10-11-20, 10:51 AM
#11
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 384
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 366 Times
in
161 Posts
The 1967/68 BIC teams rode both Geminianis and Anquetil badged bikes just like Ford-Hutchinson in 1966. The Geminianis are silver-blue, the Anquetils are dark blue/purple. Team leaders like Anquetil and Aimar rode Carres badged as Anquetils and Geminianis (respectively).
Last edited by Markeologist; 10-31-20 at 03:23 AM.
10-11-20, 11:03 AM
#12
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 384
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 366 Times
in
161 Posts
Here are Aimar and Jimenez on their Geminianis. while with BIC. Check Rebour and you can see both their Geminianis they rode in 1966 Tour while on Ford-Hutchinson. Here is also photo of Aimar and Anquetil, Aimar on silver-blue Geminiani and Jacques on an Anquetil during 1966 Tour. Both likely Carres (we know Jaques rode Carres and Rebour's illustration of Aimar's and Jimenez's bikes had Carre-style seat caps.
10-11-20, 11:25 AM
#13
Full Member
Join Date: Jun 2020
Location: Marin County, Alta California
Posts: 384
Bikes: Since new: 86 Rodriguez Tandem, wife's 87 Gitane Team Pro, 92 Burley Rock-n-Roll, 85 Fisher Comp, 88 Puch Pro, two 92 Bridgestone X0-1s; later: 66/67 Gitane Champion du Monde, 70 Gitane Super Corsa, 70 Carre, 87 Gitane Team Pro, 77/78 Ritchey Tandem
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 149 Post(s)
Liked 366 Times
in
161 Posts
...here is a close up of Jacques BIC-team bike which wears his "Anquetil" badging. You can see "JA" on seat stay cap. Your bike is pre-braze-ons so an earlier bike for some of the parts folks are suggesting. If you want some French, I'd go Stronglight 63 or 93 cranks and Mafac Top 63s or Dural Forge (pre-"RACER") brakes. But if you want a BIC-team replica, its early Campy NR (except for Mafac brakes)!
Last edited by Markeologist; 10-11-20 at 11:46 AM. Reason: typo
12-22-20, 08:25 AM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Posts: 3,120
Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times
in
40 Posts
CV-6 How did this project turn out?
12-22-20, 01:43 PM
#15
Crawlin' up, flyin' down
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Democratic Peoples' Republic of Berkeley
Posts: 5,651
Bikes: 1967 Paramount; 1982-ish Ron Cooper; 1978 Eisentraut "A"; two mid-1960s Cinelli Speciale Corsas; and others in various stages of non-rideability.
Mentioned: 40 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1025 Post(s)
Liked 2,525 Times
in
1,055 Posts
12-22-20, 02:13 PM
#16
If I own it, I ride it
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 662 Times
in
311 Posts
CV-6 How did this project turn out?
12-22-20, 02:21 PM
#17
If I own it, I ride it
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 662 Times
in
311 Posts
...here is a close up of Jacques BIC-team bike which wears his "Anquetil" badging. You can see "JA" on seat stay cap. Your bike is pre-braze-ons so an earlier bike for some of the parts folks are suggesting. If you want some French, I'd go Stronglight 63 or 93 cranks and Mafac Top 63s or Dural Forge (pre-"RACER") brakes. But if you want a BIC-team replica, its early Campy NR (except for Mafac brakes)!
Last edited by CV-6; 12-22-20 at 02:31 PM.
12-22-20, 02:32 PM
#18
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Liberty, Missouri
Posts: 3,120
Bikes: 1966 Paramount | 1971 Raleigh International | ca. 1970 Bernard Carre | 1989 Waterford Paramount | 2012 Boulder Brevet | 2019 Specialized Diverge
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 129 Post(s)
Liked 77 Times
in
40 Posts
12-22-20, 02:53 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,432
Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 631 Times
in
402 Posts
Hmm, as the frame's gotta go to a plater anyway after the stay replacement.... gold lugs, stays and forks?
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
12-22-20, 03:28 PM
#20
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Niagara Region, Canada
Posts: 1,455
Bikes: 1970s Alex Singer, 1960s Peugeot PX 10, 1960s Bertin C37, 1973 Carre Bertin C 37, 1972 Carlton Kermesse, 1981 Peugeot PX 14 Super Competition
Mentioned: 65 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 346 Post(s)
Liked 266 Times
in
157 Posts
AZORCH-
Greg at Cyclomondo makes replacement decals for Simplex derailleurs including fronts. They are a thinner vinyl film than the OEM rigid Simplex parts but I have used them and they do a satisfactory job.
https://www.cyclomondo.net/various-f...tem-kbrk73v012
Greg at Cyclomondo makes replacement decals for Simplex derailleurs including fronts. They are a thinner vinyl film than the OEM rigid Simplex parts but I have used them and they do a satisfactory job.
https://www.cyclomondo.net/various-f...tem-kbrk73v012
12-22-20, 03:35 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
missed this earlier in the year... those French poodles can really nip at one as they ride past. Wild damage.
Team Bic. just seems right.
Team Bic. just seems right.
12-22-20, 03:45 PM
#22
If I own it, I ride it
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Cardinal Country
Posts: 5,580
Bikes: Lejeune(14), Raleigh, Raysport, Jan De Reus, Gazelle, Masi, B. Carré(4), Springfield, Greg Lemond, Andre Bertin, Schwinn Paramount
Mentioned: 56 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 591 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 662 Times
in
311 Posts
AZORCH-
Greg at Cyclomondo makes replacement decals for Simplex derailleurs including fronts. They are a thinner vinyl film than the OEM rigid Simplex parts but I have used them and they do a satisfactory job.
https://www.cyclomondo.net/various-f...tem-kbrk73v012
Greg at Cyclomondo makes replacement decals for Simplex derailleurs including fronts. They are a thinner vinyl film than the OEM rigid Simplex parts but I have used them and they do a satisfactory job.
https://www.cyclomondo.net/various-f...tem-kbrk73v012
12-22-20, 07:46 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maryland, USA
Posts: 2,432
Bikes: Drysdale/Gitane/Zeus/Masi/Falcon/Palo Alto/Raleigh/Legnano
Mentioned: 34 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 981 Post(s)
Liked 631 Times
in
402 Posts
- and that last sentence says it all. I have no idea what gold plating costs. Chrome is bad enough. I was just thinking of the gold/chrome interaction. Presumably some like it; I recall when it was common to have all the chrome badges on Toyota Camrys and Lexus ES250's gold plated.... and then add chrome wheels. Anyway, look forward to the final color choice, even though the current one is eye-catching to say the least.
__________________
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
Larry:1958 Drysdale, 1961 Gitane Gran Sport, 1974 Zeus track, 1988 Masi Gran Corsa, 1974 Falcon, 1980 Palo Alto, 1973 Raleigh Gran Sport, 1974 Legnano. Susan: 1976 Windsor Profesional.
12-22-20, 07:48 PM
#24
Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 20,305
Mentioned: 130 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3464 Post(s)
Liked 2,829 Times
in
1,995 Posts
Gold can also be "brush" plated, there were vendors who visited the car dealerships and gold plated the emblems...
