Now I'm confused - definition and etiology of the term "Fred" ?
02-09-06, 10:48 AM
#1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Murray, KY
Posts: 783
Bikes: Trek 7500 FX (2005)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
I had always thought the term referenced**a rider with more bucks than riding ability who looked the part but didn't know the words. Somewhat of a synonym for "OCP (took me a while to find a good working definition of that one - I'm a mental health therapist by trade and OCD has serious therapeutic implications)" and the generic term "poser"
Now I see from a post in the camelback thread that a camelback and helmet mirror "...scream Fred"
I've done a search and see more posts that suggest a Fred is something like a Knave?
Surely one can't have it both ways.
Although the following scholarly source, https://www.bicyclesource.com/you/cul...glossary.shtml gives two definitions, but the second doesn't seem to fit a camelback user who can't ride.
**fred
1) n. a person who spends a lot of money on his bike and clothing, but still can't ride. "What a fred -- too much Lycra and titanium and not enough skill." Synonym for poser. Occasionally called a "barney".
2) n. a person who has a mishmash of old gear, does't care at all about technology or fashion, didn't race or follow racing, etc. Often identified by chainring marks on white calf socks. Used by "serious" roadies to disparage utility cyclists and touring riders, especially after these totally unfashionable "freds" drop the "serious" roadies on hills because the "serious" guys were really posers. This term is from road touring and, according to popular myth, "Fred" was a well-known grumpy old touring rider, who really was named Fred.
The authoritative Bicycling Magazine uses the following definition in its coverage of the TDF (https://www.tourdefrancenews.com/tour...494,s1,00.html)
Fred--
A name for a wannabe pro cyclist who pledge allegiance to the Mapei-Quick Step colors, rides the Colnago C-40, wears the Brikos, and worships the ground Andrea Tafi walks on, yet can't ride two steady pedal strokes himself. Commonplace at the Tour.
H'mm still doesn't mention camelbacks and helmet mirrors.
Back in the day, "doofus" seemed to be sufficiently disparaging AND generically applicable to clowns in many sports.
Perhaps BF needs a "canon" set of definitions. After all, one doesn't want the terminology of the sport to become the screwed up mish-mash that thread "standards" were in the 60's and early 70's, back in the day.
Oh well, everybody have a great day and safe rides.
Sincerely,
Bill
****Note**** All of this is totally tongue in cheek (mandatory disclaimer to pacify literalist readers)
Now I see from a post in the camelback thread that a camelback and helmet mirror "...scream Fred"
I've done a search and see more posts that suggest a Fred is something like a Knave?Surely one can't have it both ways.
Although the following scholarly source, https://www.bicyclesource.com/you/cul...glossary.shtml gives two definitions, but the second doesn't seem to fit a camelback user who can't ride.
**fred
1) n. a person who spends a lot of money on his bike and clothing, but still can't ride. "What a fred -- too much Lycra and titanium and not enough skill." Synonym for poser. Occasionally called a "barney".
2) n. a person who has a mishmash of old gear, does't care at all about technology or fashion, didn't race or follow racing, etc. Often identified by chainring marks on white calf socks. Used by "serious" roadies to disparage utility cyclists and touring riders, especially after these totally unfashionable "freds" drop the "serious" roadies on hills because the "serious" guys were really posers. This term is from road touring and, according to popular myth, "Fred" was a well-known grumpy old touring rider, who really was named Fred.
The authoritative Bicycling Magazine uses the following definition in its coverage of the TDF (https://www.tourdefrancenews.com/tour...494,s1,00.html)
Fred--
A name for a wannabe pro cyclist who pledge allegiance to the Mapei-Quick Step colors, rides the Colnago C-40, wears the Brikos, and worships the ground Andrea Tafi walks on, yet can't ride two steady pedal strokes himself. Commonplace at the Tour.
H'mm still doesn't mention camelbacks and helmet mirrors.
Back in the day, "doofus" seemed to be sufficiently disparaging AND generically applicable to clowns in many sports.
Perhaps BF needs a "canon" set of definitions. After all, one doesn't want the terminology of the sport to become the screwed up mish-mash that thread "standards" were in the 60's and early 70's, back in the day.
Oh well, everybody have a great day and safe rides.
Sincerely,
Bill
****Note**** All of this is totally tongue in cheek (mandatory disclaimer to pacify literalist readers)
02-09-06, 10:59 AM
#3
Dumb@s$ Jarhead
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Woodland Park CO
Posts: 1,110
Bikes: Calfee Dragon Fly Pro 1984 Pinarello Montello
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
concur fred=dork=barney=eddie the problem is one of perspective. An OCP'er sees that guy in cutoff sweats, camelback and rearview mirror as a fred.. but a rider who cares nothing for the accoutrements of the uptight roaddie sees a Discovery wearing, Colnago riding poseur as a Fred.. its all a matter of perspective and one mans Fred is another mans hero.
02-09-06, 11:07 AM
#5
more ape than man
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: nyc
Posts: 8,091
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 2 Times
in
1 Post
2) n. a person who has a mishmash of old gear, does't care at all about technology or fashion, didn't race or follow racing, etc. Often identified by chainring marks on white calf socks. Used by "serious" roadies to disparage utility cyclists and touring riders, especially after these totally unfashionable "freds" drop the "serious" roadies on hills because the "serious" guys were really posers. This term is from road touring and, according to popular myth, "Fred" was a well-known grumpy old touring rider, who really was named Fred.
this is my definition. i always associate fredism with helmet mirrors, safty vests, and huge saddle bags or panniers.
02-09-06, 12:08 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chesapeake Bay, MD
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by timmhaan
this is my definition. i always associate fredism with helmet mirrors, safty vests, and huge saddle bags or panniers.
By the way, nice work Bill. Bob
02-09-06, 12:19 PM
#7
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Houston,TX
Posts: 75
Bikes: 2006 Litespeed Tuscany, 2002 Lemond Buenos Aires, Trek STP 300
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by mrt10x
concur fred=dork=barney=eddie the problem is one of perspective. An OCP'er sees that guy in cutoff sweats, camelback and rearview mirror as a fred.. but a rider who cares nothing for the accoutrements of the uptight roaddie sees a Discovery wearing, Colnago riding poseur as a Fred.. its all a matter of perspective and one mans Fred is another mans hero.
02-09-06, 12:37 PM
#8
Blast from the Past
Originally Posted by mrt10x
concur fred=dork=barney=eddie the problem is one of perspective. An OCP'er sees that guy in cutoff sweats, camelback and rearview mirror as a fred.. but a rider who cares nothing for the accoutrements of the uptight roaddie sees a Discovery wearing, Colnago riding poseur as a Fred.. its all a matter of perspective and one mans Fred is another mans hero.
02-09-06, 12:41 PM
#9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Murray, KY
Posts: 783
Bikes: Trek 7500 FX (2005)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Very enlightening, particulary on the perspective of the viewer.
02-09-06, 01:42 PM
#10
Unique Vintage Steel
Originally Posted by Bob S.
+1. To me it is much the same as with the definition of Pornography: I know it when it see it.
By the way, nice work Bill. Bob
By the way, nice work Bill. Bob
02-09-06, 01:48 PM
#11
Señor Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Hardy, VA
Posts: 17,926
Bikes: Mostly English - predominantly Raleighs
Mentioned: 70 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1492 Post(s)
Liked 1,096 Times
in
642 Posts
I think definition 1 is a "Fred".
Definition 2 is a "Fred's Fred".
Definition 2 is a "Fred's Fred".
__________________
In search of what to search for.
In search of what to search for.
02-09-06, 02:44 PM
#12
Peloton Shelter Dog
As the leading abuser of the 'fred' term on this forum, I can only tell you that the phrase was passed down to me by NY City Road Nazis in the NY racing scene. We know what it means here.
But we're not telling YOU : ).
But we're not telling YOU : ).
02-09-06, 04:38 PM
#13
half man - half sheep
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Big Mineral arm - Lake Texoma (Pottsboro, Tx)
Posts: 2,469
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 9 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
As the leading abuser of the 'fred' term on this forum, I can only tell you that the phrase was passed down to me by NY City Road Nazis in the NY racing scene. We know what it means here.
But we're not telling YOU : ).
But we're not telling YOU : ).
Barney comes from SoCal...and we're not telling YOU
02-09-06, 04:46 PM
#14
The Other White Meat
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Reno
Posts: 605
Bikes: Raleigh Sports 3 speed, Torker T-530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
And now for something completely different:
My interests cross over into railroading in which FRED means "Flashing Rear End Device." I'm ignorant enough of the biking vocabulary to think, before I opened the thread, that it referred to the same sort of thing here, except on bike instead of a railway car.
Now that you know, it might be useful sometime to intentionally misunderstand when someone uses the term.
Pictured: FRED from chicagorailfan.net
My interests cross over into railroading in which FRED means "Flashing Rear End Device." I'm ignorant enough of the biking vocabulary to think, before I opened the thread, that it referred to the same sort of thing here, except on bike instead of a railway car.
Now that you know, it might be useful sometime to intentionally misunderstand when someone uses the term.
Pictured: FRED from chicagorailfan.net
02-09-06, 04:52 PM
#15
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Redlands, CA
Posts: 6,313
Mentioned: 31 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 842 Post(s)
Liked 469 Times
in
250 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
As the leading abuser of the 'fred' term on this forum, I can only tell you that the phrase was passed down to me by NY City Road Nazis in the NY racing scene. We know what it means here.
But we're not telling YOU : ).
But we're not telling YOU : ).
)
02-09-06, 04:55 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Chesapeake Bay, MD
Posts: 434
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by BroMax
railroading in which FRED means "Flashing Rear End Device."
02-09-06, 05:21 PM
#17
The Other White Meat
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Reno
Posts: 605
Bikes: Raleigh Sports 3 speed, Torker T-530
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
Originally Posted by Bob S.
Yes, this is also sometimes the case in biking. However, Fred's Flashing Rear End Device in the biking world is usually unintended where as it appears to be intentional in the Railroad usage.
In that case, thanks for not including a picture.
02-09-06, 05:46 PM
#18
Sarcopenia: Living Decay
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 1,812
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by BroMax
And now for something completely different:
https://www.bordermail.com.au/newsflo...age_id=1073949
...and in reality the 'F' didn't stand for 'Flamin', it stood for a multiflavoured expletive.
02-09-06, 05:55 PM
#19
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,866
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
2 Posts
I'd always thought of a fred as the exact opposite of OCP. The trademark of a fred was hairy legs. Some that are freds are fine others worthless. Just as some with the latest bike, gear and recently shaved legs really race or at least ride like they could and others just look the part.
02-09-06, 09:24 PM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Beaufort, South Carolina, USA and surrounding islands.
Posts: 8,521
Bikes: Cannondale R500, Motobecane Messenger
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 11 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
I always thought a fred was someone who didn't have two pieces of cycling apparl and equipment from the same manufacturer. Shimano shoes with Look cleats, DeFeet socks, Cannondale shorts, Pearl Izumi jersery, cheap sunglasses, Trico gloves, and Specialized helmet, riding a Cannondale with RSX with an upright Profile Design stem, Serfras saddle, Topeak seatbag, Look pedals, with Specialized top brake levers and computer.
Wait a minute, that's me!
Wait a minute, that's me!
02-09-06, 09:27 PM
#22
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Boulder, CO
Posts: 2,339
Bikes: Road, MTB, Folding, Commuting bikes...
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time
in
1 Post
As an aside TheFredCast is a great podcast about cycling. I just found it yesterday on iTunes. Check out the website at thefredcast.com
02-09-06, 10:45 PM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Centennial, Colorado
Posts: 220
Bikes: 1999 LeMond Zurich and 2004 Giant OCR Touring
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 0 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times
in
0 Posts
Originally Posted by patentcad
As the leading abuser of the 'fred' term on this forum, I can only tell you that the phrase was passed down to me by NY City Road Nazis in the NY racing scene. We know what it means here.
But we're not telling YOU : ).
But we're not telling YOU : ).
02-10-06, 07:46 AM
#24
Peloton Shelter Dog
Originally Posted by Belugadave
Now there's a Fred for you.
And in the end what difference does it make? It's friggin BICYCLES you idiots. The degree to which the weenies here take this crap seriously is staggering to me at times. Good grief, I ride more than 95% of you mopes and I'll NEVER think it's worth getting my spandex in a bunch over this.
Can I buy Fredcedrin tabs in bulk on the Internet?