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Smallest possible triple with Altus front derailleur?

Old 11-05-19, 08:50 AM
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AllWeatherJeff
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Smallest possible triple with Altus front derailleur?

I'm converting my commuter bike to a dedicated hauler . Its a 2017 Marin Muriwoods 29er.

I already have minimal to no use for the 4 biggest gears. And, as a dedicated hauler, they will be virtually useless and I will have more need for better mobility and smaller ratios with loads-- especially on inclines.

The bike is Currently running a 48/38/28 and a 9spd 11-32 with and Altus front derailleur and an Alivio 9spd in the rear.

What is the smallest triple that will be compatible with this set up?

Thanks for any input and advice.

Jeff

Last edited by AllWeatherJeff; 11-05-19 at 09:01 AM.
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Old 11-05-19, 09:03 AM
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Due to age & infirmities, I convert the "typical" 28-38-48 to an inexpensive 22-32-44.
The FDER may work fine after you move it down or you may need to get one designed for the smaller rings if not. Try it first.
They aren't that expensive if you need to.

Something else that may be useful is get another cassette with the smallest cog the same size you want. (11T is probably useless for you)
Something with a 12, 13 or 14T smallest cog.
Mix & match the cogs to the ratios most useful.

Last edited by Bill Kapaun; 11-05-19 at 09:06 AM.
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Old 11-05-19, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by AllWeatherJeff
I'm converting my commuter bike to a dedicated hauler . Its a 2017 Marin Muriwoods 29er.

I already have minimal to no use for the 4 biggest gears. And, as a dedicated hauler, they will be virtually useless and I will have more need for better mobility and smaller ratios with loads-- especially on inclines.

The bike is Currently running a 48/38/28 and a 9spd 11-32 with and Altus front derailleur and an Alivio 9spd in the rear.

What is the smallest triple that will be compatible with this set up?

Thanks for any input and advice.

Jeff
I imagine you would have issues with the FD cage contacting the chainstay before the rings got too small for it to shift.
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Old 11-05-19, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Something else that may be useful is get another cassette with the smallest cog the same size you want. (11T is probably useless for you)
Something with a 12, 13 or 14T smallest cog.
Mix & match the cogs to the ratios most useful.
I wish that such cassettes were more commonly/easily available than they are, the trend seems to be to start at 11 nowadays.
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Old 11-05-19, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by ThermionicScott
I imagine you would have issues with the FD cage contacting the chainstay before the rings got too small for it to shift.
Argh.

No idea why, but I hadn't even considered this.

And, yep, I just checked. In its current configuration, there is only about an 1/2 -3/4 inch between the chainstay and the lower end of the FD cage.
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Old 11-05-19, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Something else that may be useful is get another cassette with the smallest cog the same size you want. (11T is probably useless for you)
Something with a 12, 13 or 14T smallest cog.
Mix & match the cogs to the ratios most useful.
I wish that such cassettes were more common/easily available than they are, the trend seems to be to start at 11T nowadays. Here's my favorite drivetrain calculator, it supports IGHs: https://www.kstoerz.com/gearcalc/comp...38,28&ighid2=1
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Old 11-05-19, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by AllWeatherJeff
Argh.

No idea why, but I hadn't even considered this.

And, yep, I just checked. In its current configuration, there is only about an 1/2 -3/4 inch between the chainstay and the lower end of the FD cage.
Your 48T ring is 3.82" radius, 42T is 3.34" which is less than 1/2 inch, so your derailleur should clear OK. Even if not, many derailleur/crankset combinations will shift just fine with the derailleur non-optimally high, especially with a non-worn chain with good lateral stiffness.. Try what you've got you may be pleasantly surprised.
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Old 11-05-19, 04:44 PM
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Originally Posted by AllWeatherJeff
Argh.

No idea why, but I hadn't even considered this.

And, yep, I just checked. In its current configuration, there is only about an 1/2 -3/4 inch between the chainstay and the lower end of the FD cage.
I'm considering a more "compact" gearing system for my rando bike, so that possibility has been on my mind.
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Old 11-05-19, 05:13 PM
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Originally Posted by AllWeatherJeff
Argh.

No idea why, but I hadn't even considered this.

And, yep, I just checked. In its current configuration, there is only about an 1/2 -3/4 inch between the chainstay and the lower end of the FD cage.
As I mentioned- IF it didn't work, get a FDER designed for smaller rings!
What do you think bikes that come with 22-32-44 cranks use?

You have to wade through the tech docs a bit, but they are there. It's usually in the suffix details of the Model#.
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Old 11-05-19, 05:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
As I mentioned- IF it didn't work, get a FDER designed for smaller rings!
What do you think bikes that come with 22-32-44 cranks use?

You have to wade through the tech docs a bit, but they are there. It's usually in the suffix details of the Model#.
Advice well taken.

I'm gonna take the bike into my local shop and see what my options are. I was hoping to make the conversion with as little out of pocket pain as possible-- over the years I have come to realize that the swift and shiny, economical outcome is the exception and not the rule
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Old 11-05-19, 05:34 PM
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Likely the existing FDER will shift "good enough".
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Old 11-05-19, 10:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Bill Kapaun
Likely the existing FDER will shift "good enough".
Indeed. My cargo bike has a 24-36-chainguard combo in the front and there's tons of room between the "big" chainring and the front derailleur. (Below.) It shifts just fine.

In the rear, IRD offers 9-speed cassettes in 12-32 and 12-34 combos: https://store.interlocracing.com/bllica.html . I have the 12-34 on another bike and it's working fine.

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Old 11-06-19, 04:42 PM
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74 BCD can only go as low as 24T.

I believe the smallest 64 BCD big brand chainring is 22T. But you can buy these 20T chainrings on Amazon and eBay, but you might have to shave a little bit of the edges of your crank flange to clear the chain.
https://www.amazon.com/aMTBer-20T-Ch.../dp/B00CDW9CC0
https://www.ebay.com/itm/20T-or-21T-...D/332668667006

Some reviewers wrote that they run 20/32/44 triple.

Every 2 teeth of change will affect the diameter by 8mm. 2 teeth equals 1 inch or 25.4mm. So 25.4 / 3.1415 = around 8mm (8.085mm) of diameter. So for example, if you change from 48 to 44T, then you are lowering your FD by 8mm.

I have a 12-34T 10 speed cassette which I mixed myself. You have to be careful, as some Shimano cassettes don't match well with each other. Some cog groups don't work at all together. If you look at the exploded "EV" drawings, you'll be able to find out which groups come with a 12T cog that have a serrated surface to take a lockring. Usually, you find them by comparing the part number. Some groups with 11T first position come with a 12T that can work in 1st position. You simply drop the 11T, add a new cog somewhere in the middle, and replace the 11T lockring with a 12T lockring. If you do use 12T first position, you must also use the specific 13T cog that comes with it, in order to get the correct spacing with the built-in spacer.

Alternatively, you can get a custom mix of Miche on order. I bought 2 to 3 Shimano cassettes to mix mine. But for the price of 3, you can custom order the Miche.
https://www.miche.it/en/products/str...e-pignoni.html
https://www.miche.it/pub/media/produ...t__primato.pdf

I found this shop on Google that assembles custom 11 speed miche cassettes. Maybe you could ask them for a 9 or 10 speed. (Edit: 9 speed only goes up to 29T. 10 speed only goes up to 30T. 11 speed goes up to 34T)
https://thecycleclinic.co.uk/product...r-shimano-sram

On an old bike, I had a 9 speed 12-34T. I don't remember how I mixed it. But I think I took the Shimano HG400-9 11-34, HG50-9 11-30, mixed them, dropped the 11, and bought a spare 12T lockring. But I really don't remember. You can look at the exploded diagrams for a better solution.

(EDIT: I looked at the interlocracing site, and the 9speed 12-34 12/13/14/16/18/21/24/28/34 looks very similar to what I had. Alternatively you could use your current 11-32, drop the first 2 positions, and replace them with a pair of 12-13 from a Shimano group that has the serrated surface and a 12T lockring. There are some websites that sell each cog for around $5-6. but be careful, as I had problems with mixing a 10 speed set where it wouldn't shift between 14 15 and 16 when I tried to insert a 15 from a different group)

On my current bike, I have 12-34T 10 speed cassette, and a 24/44T double chainrings. There is only a few millimeters of clearance between the chainstay and the FD cage and chain, but I have a 20" folding bike, so you might have a little bit less clearance if you have larger wheels.


Last edited by tomtomtom123; 11-06-19 at 05:39 PM.
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Old 11-06-19, 05:19 PM
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Oh, I was mistaken about the pairing of 1st and 2nd position with 12T cog on a 9 speed. Only on a 10 speed you need to keep the 12T 1st position together with it's corresponding 2nd position cog, because of the way the built in spacing works, due to the thinner cogs. On a 9 speed, you don't need a matching 2nd position cog for a 1st position 12T for the spacing, except to ensure good shifting, due to different ramping positions.

Have a look at the HG50-9 exploded diagram. You can find a serrated 12T cog on the 11-30 and 11-25. It's ambiguous as to what part number is on the 12T top gear position. So you could take a 12T 1st position cog and a matching 12T lockring.

https://www.paul-lange.de/index.php/...50-9-1880C.pdf

Then if you want a 34T, you have to mix it with HG400-9. The BH group 12-36T has a 1st position 12T cog. I don't know about the other groups because the drawing is shaded instead of vector lines, so it's not possible to see whether or not they're serrated. But I assume some of them might not be. Also, I don't know whether or not the last few cogs on the 36T group is riveted onto a spider. But I remember that some of the 12T serrated cogs look identical even though they had different part numbers. I might actually have an extra one lying around somewhere.
https://www.paul-lange.de/index.php/...400-9-3680.pdf

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Old 11-09-19, 07:31 AM
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Update:

I had a mechanic at my local shop take a look at my set up.

Parts have been ordered, and next week theyll swap out the 48/38/28 for 44/32/22.
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Old 11-09-19, 11:57 AM
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To add a bit to my "story"-
I actually swapped out the 44T for a 36T on one bike & 38T on the other. My "magic number" was 37T, but try to find one for a reasonable price....
The one with 38T shifts OK. Not great, but "adequate".
The 36T needed "extra help", but would shift.
I would think a 40T would shift pretty well.
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Old 11-09-19, 04:23 PM
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Shimano makes a 12-36 cassette in 9-speed (HG400-9). I have one on one of my bikes and it works well. Sunrace's CSM989 also comes as a 12-36. Both the Shimano and Sunrace cassettes are 12-14-16-18-21-24-28-32-36.
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Old 11-09-19, 05:42 PM
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Homemade 22-34-45 with just a hair of clearance. That's all you need.
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