thook

that's beautiful build, 3speedslow! where'd you acquire those fenders, btw? how big'a tire would they fit?

3speedslow

thook

This frame came to me from Bill, wrk101.

Everything came from my bins except those alloy fenders. I stripped them from a junk beach cruiser. Those Bonty tires got shredded after that shot and I shod it with some Conti town & country. Have to look at the size later... it’s at the house while I spend separation time in my loft.

This brut is going to be doing full grocery duty when I can land a used kiddie pull behind.

crumbling

Look at the Schwinn BMX catalogue page 29-03. Sold as a frame/fork only. The 1983 standard Schwinn catalogue has a similar ad with unicrown forks but the same part number.
crumbling

The Golden Boy 

I've seen that faux biplane fork crown around before...

Cougrrcj

WOW, I had no idea that Schwinn was into MTBs in the early-mid '80s. And here I thought that my '90 Hungarian-built Woodlands was an ancient MTB...

crumbling

Hi again
These frames came with no head badge number as they were sold as Frame/fork only apparently. The SN can be read by two different formats but I will leave that untill I know what it is. What he original owner can tell us when he bought it will make a difference. The frame weighs 2360 g or 5.4 lb the forks are 1264 g 2.1 lb. Comparing these frame with a Specialized Stumpjumper they are very similar to the 1982 lugged version except for the fork crown. I also like the original shop decal on the bike.
crumbling

tricky 

Small batch and custom mountain bikes began being produced in the late 70's. Mass manufacture began in the early 80s. Your 90's MTB is relatively late in the game!

tricky 

Don't repaint it if you are wanting to get the biggest bang for your buck once you sell it. There isn't much value in mass produced vintage mountain bikes. The exception for your frame might be if the BMX crowd is interested. Those folks pay top dollar for frames and components but usually it's for the true 20" or 24" BMX frames and components. The only high value items in vintage mountain bikes are early handbuilt Ritchies, Fat Chances, Cunninghams or other niche builders. The most value for you in this frame would be the fun you'll have riding it!

Chrisb1216

So if Schwinn contracted with Giant to build the bike does that mean the Sierra was also sold by Giant under one of their model names?

crumbling

Hello to all

I have seen this forum page in my search for Schwinn early MTBs in particular my Lugged version.

I see here early Schwinn MTBs and a few I have not seen before. I have a Lugged “Japanese Made” with a serial number BSnnnnnn that over the years of searching for the format I have, I think a final meaning of the serial number.

I have placed the research on the forum page “Can anybody-able-id-schwinn-frameset” on an unrelated forum page, a forum I had placed the start of my research in 2016.

Now before I start I must outline I consider all that is a record of these frames and approached the record and meanings of known appropriate formats and what is accepted as a historical Schwinn record and their company policy at the time.

I have continued to search, often running up against a blank wall and looked for other ways. Persistent I am you might say.

I have been on other Forums using different names for myself due to my seeing that some forum rules at the time do not allow transfer of other information into their forum. This has not been done to mislead anybody by myself just that I thought using the same name I had on another forum was not allowed. I have seen others use the same name over many forum pages, my mistake for what I did. I started using Crumbling as at the time I was diagnosed with Prostrate Cancer and after surgical correction I used One less, as I was less a part for my existence, all is well now.

The restriction on not being able to bring in information does make it difficult to bring together all in one place so comparisons can be easy seen.

Anything I bring into this forum I hope will not cause difficulties but is done to clarify what I consider needs to be included. I have been banned from one forum for what I see has no explanation,and nor was I given a chance to discuss the reasons. Oh well, so it be.

I live in New Zealand and I am not particularly young but I try to compare historical information to get a better understanding of what happened.



Not until recently I had seen a Specialised Stump Jumper of 1982 at a local Specialised dealer and I see considerable similarities to the Schwinn MTB frame I have, so much I consider a refreshed search for the Lugged frame history.

The research I did is only for the lugged Schwinn MTB with a serial numbers MSnnnnnn and whatever formats recognise that SN.

Please check it for comparisons to the frames shown on this Forum page as owned by John Marshall.

All the same Lugged Schwinn MTBs I have seen appear to be seen as an road/off road cruiser not an MTB or ATB. The early MTB type construction has been lost due to lost recognition of Schwinn and MTBs.

I have consider all that is a record of these frames and approached the record and meanings of known SN formats and what is accepted as a historical Schwinn record and their company policy at the time.

During my time away I have continued to search, often running up against a blank wall and look for other ways. Persistent you might say. I have been on other Forums using different names for myself due to my seeing that some forum rules do not allow transfer of other information into their forum. This has not been done to mislead anybody by myself. The restriction on not being able to bring in information does make it difficult to bring together all in one place so comparisons what can be easy seen. Anything I bring into this forum I hope will not cause difficulties but is done to clarify what I consider needs to be included. I have been banned from one forum for what I see has no explanation, not my name given here and nor was I given a chance to discuss the reasons.



So apart from looking at the MTB pictured and trying to date the manufacture year it is worthwhile seeing the serial numbers to conclude year dating. Please post them, even just the first letters and one or two numbers. I understand many look at the head date stamp to identify the completion of the MTB manufacture thus identifying the model type and year. This is worth noting as it fills in history. Schwinnhad the practise of date stamping the start of the frame construction so thus my view is that date gives the earliest indication of Schwinn`s thoughts as to type of cycle they were creating ie MTBs.

Most of the Schwinn history has been lost in time and I feel some assumptions have been made. For example it is commonly said Schwinn had no interest in MTB`s as they never referred to Mountain Bikes by name. But they used All Terrain Bikes is misleading as not being interested in MTBs but if the 1979 establishment of “Mountainbikes” by Gary Fisher is accepted the Schwinn action is given meaning, very serious legal meaning. For Schwinn to have stated “mountain bikes” would not have been a legal risk to take.

I also see evidence that the existence of Mountainbikes as a company also effected other manufacturers in the use of the wording, eg Tom Ritchey and Specialised. Specialised are given the recognition as being the first mass produced MTB company in late 1981 but they themselves did not advertise the fact in 1981/82 they made MTBs but writings in magazine put it MTB label on them.

From Bob Huffords comments about the Clunker frames and Schwinn recognising the copyright of the Clunker name shows Schwinns attitude to copyrighted wording, “Schwinn even honored that with the Klunker 5 model (based on their Spitfire middleweight) in 1978. The name was copyrighted, so they had to pull it pretty quickly.”

To look at all the early MTBs shown on this forum page does indicate Schwinn was building MTBs pre 1983 to as early as 1981. The King Sting series stared in 1981 and are accepted into the Mombat Mountain Bike, Hall of Fame from 1981 and 1983. Looking at these MTBs, in particular the geometry of these frames, they do compare with the Breezer and Ritchey frames, not necessarily in light weight construction and quality but they have the feeling of the early MTBs. I feel Schwinn had an attitude of building bikes for the masses and what they produced was a lower cost MTB for the growing BMX riders to continue their cycling future.

The Schwinn Owners Operating & Maintenance Manual Guide for All Terrain Bicycles not Mountain Bikes was published in 1981.

The King Sting cycles are numbered by the frame SN as MYnnnnnn were S = 1981 and T = 1982. Compare these numbers with other Schwinn production.

MS does have a recognition of the Asian Serial Number Guide S(1) but as MSYnnnnn more MYnnnnnn. With more Schwinn SN known a clearer comparison can be made. All will be clearer by reading “Can anybody-able-id-schwinn-frameset”

Early Cimarron MTBs had a SN of month then T=1982 and U=1983 at which stage the Schwinn Chicago production ceased and Schwinn production slowly moved to Giant in Taiwan.

The Giant production is easy to understand by the G at the commencement of the construction followed by the week/year on the LHS rear drop out and a sequential identification serial number to the RHS rear drop out. Schwinn engineers are recognised a major contributors to Giant factory set up.



Regarding Schwinn MTB production from the time line of Mombat for MTBs that gives recognition to Schwinn early MTB production.



1978 Bikes: Breezer Series I (9 bikes), Schwinn Klunker V



1979 Bikes Approximately. 200 bikes being Ritchey (approx. 40), Mert Lawwill Pro Cruiser (approx. 75) and Schwinn Spitfire V



1980 Bikes: Approx. 300 bikes total, Breezer Series II (25 bikes), Ritchey (approx. 150 bikes)



1981 Bikes: Approx. 2,000 bikes total, Schwinn King Sting, Murray Baja, Ritchey (approx. 500), Lawwill Pro Cruiser, Schwinn opens Greenville, MS plant



1982 Bikes: Approx. 5,000 bikes total including Specialized Stumpjumper Breezer, Cunningham Indian, Roughrider, Mantis, Saturn, Proteus, Mountain Goat, Trail master, Lawwill Pro Cruiser, Moots Mountaineer, Ibis, Bruiser, Tierra, Steve Potts WTB, R&E Cycles, Rocky Mountain Bicycle Works, Rock Creek Cycles, Salsa, Victor Vicente of America, Ritchey Mount Tam and Everest , Univega Alpina Sport, Schwinn King Sting and Sidewinder, Raleigh



At this point in time the MTB had made a small growth and Schwinn had been there.

crumbing

3speedslow

Quite a mouthful!

3speedslow

Looking back over this thread, all I can add is that I finally found a cargo trailer to use with my High Sierra!

Chuckk

Here's my 1992 Schwinn - Waterford - Paramount- Buell S.A.S.S.
Mombat had a pretty good history, but that's gone now.
More Photos Here

Ironfish653

Funny, I zeroed in on the 'Buell' sticker on the swingarm before I read your caption. Recognized the 'pull-shock' suspension from the S-1/X-1 Sport bikes.
Very, very cool find!

Jamb

I recently acquired a Schwinn Clear Creek women's bike 21 speed. I'll post a pic once I reach my 10 posts. It's purple. Would like to know how old it is. Sticker says
Model: S4975TGA.
Date: BOA0925JI.
I don't think it's " vintage" since most of the stickers on it still good and legible but still want to know what year it is.
I can Pacific and see if they know. I just had some work done on it to make it rideable and it's comfortable to ride due to the bars high position and are adjustable but front suspension feels real loose. Did a little research this may be a hybrid comfort style newer than I thought. Does anyone know how to interpret the date?

Santuri32

To add to the information provided above. This bike was sold in 1983 and 1984; first as a frame with fork, headset, and cantilever brake base to build a more classic MTB option than their previous offerings (these were the 1981-82 King Sting and the 1982 Sidewinder). This bike was first presented in a brazed/TIG form to dealers of which I know of 3. The lugged version was built in Japan and imported in low numbers. Since it was both a limited number bike and was not assembled by Schwinn, it does not has a assembly date on the headbadge. I include the 1983 BMX Catalog page showing the prototype frame with two inserts from the 1983 parts catalog and a 1984 advertisement with the suggested components for both years and my bike as I assembled it. The brazed prototype frame lacked cable guides on top of the BB as the production lugged frame had, among other details. However, both of these frames came with the rear brake stop/carrier braze on plate that was first offered in the 1984 High Sierra. In a way this is the High Sierra's "template". It varied in the geometry with an even longer top tube than the High Sierra's. I think I have estimated the number of the lugged bikes in under 600.

Santuri32

On the total number of frames made.
From a series of 8 1983s I can estimate a total 292 frames. I have 3 '84 serials but are widespread, the number from these comes out slightly over 1000. For the '82s which were serialized for some reason as well, these give 18.

madpogue 

^^^^^ Wow, do you have any more catalog scans from that era? It would be cool if you could publish them to a web site somewhere; it would help fill a gap in the ones we usually reference.

And +1, that is one looooong top-tube. Nice build, to boot. Is that front wheel laced 4-cross?

Santuri32

Hello,
I got all of them from online sources. The ugly one with the '84 parts was a print screen from one that someone was selling. I am looking for that one. It was a one fold single-pager that introduced the High Sierra on the outside and the Mountain Bike suggested components on the inside. And yes, I think Schwinn did that type of lacing for high flange 36h box wheels such as these. These came straight from a 1983 Sierra donor together with the Maximizer tires. Can you find a longer top tube anywhere in the 80s? It is 24 19/32" long on the 21" frame

Santuri32

I had to arrange the aspect in Photoshop, but here it is. It was actually a single pager. I also believe this was a magazine ad. It must have been published from Aug 1983 to March 1984. If someone have access to one, I would very much like a good scan of it.

'02 nrs

'87 schwinn offered paramountain framesets.

certainly pvt. mtb race teams were supplied framesets also.

Santuri32

Beautiful, the first black one I've seen... where did you found that production figure? Do you have figure information on 1983 models?

And what those brakes?

Black might not be a preferred color or perhaps was also rare. Of these I have only seen red and yellow before. And from that year, I have only seen tri-colored Project KOM's and they were offered black, red, and yellow.


Thanks

'02 nrs

prod.# was a bit off.1987 Vintage Schwinn Paramountain (rare Color)brakes are campy Euclid.

Santuri32

In the first Interbike held in October of 1982 at Las Vegas Nevada, there was burgundy Schwinn called “Paramountain” a name used later in yours. I believe that bike could have been the 1982s brazed prototype of the '83 lugged Schwinn MTB. Both serials I have for these frames indicate January of 1982 build dates and I was told by Richard Schwinn that were made in Waterford.
This is the '82 MTB, although it looks to be TIG, it was fillet-brazed.

I'm looking for that fork by the way, it might be a 26" Tange TX-500W with cantilever braze-ons

Santuri32

Oh you have a full Euclid set, Italians were not weight weenies then. It's a beautiful set. Thanks for the link, I've never heard that it was brass soldered before, I wonder if that is a fact?
Thanks