rumatt

I upgraded to R8000 (double chainring) from 5700 (triple) and I am seriously disappointed.

The amount of trimming on the front derailleur is ridiculous. I have a range of about 4-5 gears in the middle of the rear cassette that I can shift back and forth on without trimming, but if I go outside of that range I need to trim the FD to avoid rubbing. I'm constantly thinking about where my FD is and why there's rubbing.

My 7900 DA on my road bike is 10+ years old and it has no trim feature at all. I can use almost the entire rear cassette with no trimming and only the 1 extreme cross chaining gear makes noise. What's with the massive step backward 10 years later with R8000? Bah.

Am I the only one with this issue? Is there any way to improve it? I've tried adjusting the FD several times to no avail. Does a DA FD help? Or something else?

It could be partly related to the fact that my bike is titanium and has a bit of BB flex. But it happens even when I'm pedaling gently so I think this is a bogus reason. And the chainstays aren't particularly short either (it's a large frame)

Cyclist7485

It’s a new “improved design” front derailleur that provides greater tire clearance for today’s bikes that can utilize tires wider than 28c. I have just installed R8000 on one of my own “old-school” steel bikes. I followed the instructions provided by Shimano to a tee. I watched their technician training modules, and even a few videos from popular youtube channels, but my experience is the same as yours.

I had a customer’s r8000 mechanical bike that needed new cables yesterday and was surprised that on his bike all I had to do was set the cable tension and it worked a charm. Still a little bit fussier than previous front derailleur designs.
The other techs at our shop have had the same issues with mechanical R8000 and 9100 front mechs on every bike that comes in with them.

Shimano says that every aspect of performance is improved with the new design. I disagree. I like every component in the new groupset, except the front derailleur. I think they compromised the user experience a little bit in exchange for additional tire clearance.

I have a new-in-box Ultegra 6800 front derailleur on the way to me from an ebay seller now. It’s the same design as the Dura-Ace 9000 mechanical that I installed to my wife’s bike. That one works like every Shimano mechanical front derailleur that ever came before it. Perfectly.
After I have it installed, I will report back here with an update in case you’re considering doing the same.

shelbyfv

I don't understand having to trim in both directions. I didn't know it was even possible to set it up with two trim positions. I think following Shimano instructions should have you using the small ring trim for the two largest cogs. For the big ring I think Shimano expects rubbing in those same cogs, though I've been lucky with both 5800 and 8000. I did like 7800 and 7900 better.

DorkDisk

Setting up the 9100 is a different procedure, and it is effectively a four position shifter. Once set up, I really like it, however. Friction front shifting is better IMO.

Koyote

The obvious solution is a Di2 drivetrain. Then you'll have a FD that automatically trims itself.

PoorInRichfield

I clicked on this post 'cause on my last ride, my Ultegra Di2 was driving me bonkers. The front derailleur kept auto-trimming half way through the cassette and causing chain rub. I think I figured out how to fix that with e-Tube.

While Di2 is certainly an expensive upgrade, hearing the OP's issues makes me glad I sold a kidney (almost) to get Di2. Trimming is kind of a pain, especially when you live in a hilly area like I do and shift through all gears quite frequently. Now "technology" does the trimming for me. w00t!

icemilkcoffee 

I am on a 105 5700 and I have to trim quite often- on the smallest 2 cogs and the largest 2 cogs

mstateglfr 

r7000 and r8000 are both better than the 5800 and 6800 FDs they replaced. Shimano even changed the 5800 series by offering a 5801 and I think it was due to tire clearance issues with the long arm of the 5800.

These FDs arent as easy to set up as old ones from the 80s, 90s, and early 00s. But they do have some improvements like using allen key bolts instead of screws for limit adjusting and also the ability to tension the cable directly on the FD unit.

Have you watched some youtube videos on setup? Its simple to do once youve done it once, but its confusing if youve never done it before.

Between the regular position and trim, I can use the full range of my cassette when the chain is on either ring. Of course there is really no reason to ride in a 50-28 combo.

mstateglfr 

Are you a mechanic or work at a shop in another capacity?...it seems late for this to have been the first time you install an R model FD.
Its just loosen the cable tensioner, tighten the cable, set the FD in the large ring trim position, and twist the bolt until the 2 lines meet. It isnt a lengthy process...maybe on your bike the lines dont meet or meet when the FD isnt in the trim position?...either of those could explain whats wrong.

Troul 

R8K FD needs 2 more trim possitions for it to be effectively smooth & quiet imo. If a less wider profile 11 speed chain was available, it would likely resolve the interference issues.

Oso Polar

Hmm, I have R8000 and I never trim. Big ring works across all range of the cassette flawlessly without any noise, including big-big. The only combination that does rub noticeably is small-small (and also a bit noticeable is "small - one before small" combination) which I treat as a reminder that a gear shift is long overdue. 50/34 x 11/34. I've no idea what kind of magic was applied by bike shop mechanics.

rumatt

Wow, interesting. What frame do you have? Size? I'm guessing a stiff carbon frame with mile long chainstays?

Small-small making noise wouldn't bother me in the least. That's a garbage combo anyway.

Oso Polar

2018 Jamis Renegade Escapade, 54 cm, Reynolds 631 steel. Chainstays... well, it is a gravel bike, 430 mm.

mstateglfr 

forgot to mention that a 6800 fd doesn't work the same as all prior fds. The long swing arm requires the cable to mount one of two ways and there is a pin that may need to flip, depending on where the cable comes from for routing.

Just an FYI in case you weren't aware.

Bryan C. 

I can't say I have had the same experience as the OP. I have set up and used Ultegra 6800, R8000, and a DA 9100 front derailleurs.

The two line thing was confusing at first. I used the Shimano dealer manual and watched a YouTube video and it turned out perfect. Its a pretty simple process once you get it figured out.

It really isn't that hard to get dialed in once you initially set it up. Just takes some patience and probably some trial & error to set it up properly. One thing that helped me was understanding the chain doesn't have to be perfectly centered in the cage when at the inward and outward ends of the derailleur travel. Just barely enough room to not rub is all that is needed And be sure you are adjusting the cable in the correct trim position.

AdkMtnMonster

I was getting a small rub from my R8000 fd in the big ring (52) and somewhere around the 7th-8th cog (11 speed cassette, 11-34.) It didn't rub on 9/10/11 or on 6/5/4, only on that 7th or 8th cog. Finally reached down and gave the in-line barrel adjust a quick twist and now it's silent in all gear combos. (Disclaimer- I don't ever find myself in big-big or small-small, so I cannot speak to the veracity of the noise level if I were to somehow become braindead and use either of those combos. I also have never forgotten to get dressed before leaving the house, or driven off a bridge, so I'm pretty smart.)

Cyclist7485

Once the converter (or as you call it "pin") is set correctly, it works exactly like every Shimano front derailleur that has preceded it.

Cyclist7485

I have people working for me in Service, so I haven't had to perform such menial tasks on other people's bikes for quite a while. Due to Covid-19, we've been short a couple of techs so I've been picking up some of the slack in service recently.
The R8000 group on one of my own bikes is the first toggle-link FD I've installed. I have watched all of Shimano's S-Tech courses and passed the quizzes. I've worked in shops since 1979. I've installed and set up many different front derailleurs from many, many different manufacturers over the years. I know what I am doing.
I have taken a second look at the toggle-link fd training module and ran my bike through the steps again. Same result. Chain rubs at all times in the highest gear (big ring/small cog) "chirp-chirp-chirp", and in big ring/4th cog (fourth from easiest). If I make further adjustments to stop chain rub at one end, it becomes more pronounced on the other end. It just doesn't work anywhere near as well on this particular bicycle as 2011 Campy Record did, or as FD6800 does.
On a side note, a customer brought in his titanium gravel bike for a new fd cable the other day, and after routing the new cable, I ran it through the exact same process as I did my own bike and everything works as it ought to.
I suppose it is possible that my own R8000 FD is defective. IME, factory defects are pretty rare with recent Shimano offerings. I find the setup on the toggle link to be more fidgety than with traditional long-arm designs. My shop's chief mechanic agrees with that asessment.
Thanks for offering the advice.

burnthesheep

That's 10 speed. R8000 is 11 speed.

Elvo

R8000 FD here with 48/32 11-36T and I never need to trim

Cyclist7485

Well, here's an update. I decided to reinstall the FD-R8000 front derailleur to my favorite bike and take another whack at it.

I clipped that cable off and started with a fresh cable. I opened my iPad up right next to the bike, logged into the S-Tec site, and once again opened the toggle link front derailleur installation module even though I now have it memorized quite well.
I went through every step as it is presented, pausing the video between each step. At first, same old result, then I just began making small changes to the cable tension and limit screws almost as if it was any other derailleur but in much tinier increments. Adjusting in the lowest setting and big/small, then readjusting in big/big, then again in small/big, then repeating the whole process.
Eventually, it worked!

The bike still won't cross chain in Big/Big as smoothly as mechanical Sram Force/Red, and not even close to as well as Campy. It even has a tiny rub in the second easiest cog and the big ring, but it's significantly better than it was, and very livable. Best of all, the rubbing in the big ring and smallest cog is completely gone now. The top trim position will definitely be used..often. The bottom trim isn't really useful at all.
It would seem to me that the procedure given by Shimano should not be expected to yield a tuned drivetrain all by itself, but rather it should be considered a group of base settings from which you may have to make further adjustments in order to fine tune the front derailleur.

It is most definitely more time consuming on some bikes than setting up older design Shimano front derailleurs, and any mechanical front derailleur made by Sram or Campagnolo. I suspect the 405mm chainstays on this bike might have something to do with it. If your bike has longer chainstays, it may be more forgiving.
In any case, it is nice to have a complete groupo of matching components. Testing on the open road tomorrow morning.

06/22/2020 Post Test Ride Update: After a 56 mile test ride, I can honestly say that in my opinion the front derailleur performance is still less than optimal. No rub on the Big ring/small cog combo, but even in the T-Trim Position the chain rubs hard against the inner cage of the front derailleur when in the third from easiest cog and the big ring. It should be able to at least run under force without rubbing in the second cog/big ring combo. It also requires more hand force than previous generations to shift from small ring to big ring.
My final opinion of R8000 Mechanical is that the rim brakes are great, and the drivetrain is nice and smooth if your chain happens to be on the right half of the cassette.
I might be boxing this group up and either returning or posting for sale soon. Sram works better.

TiHabanero

The new FD design is frustrating at first, but with enough of them in the bag it begins to make sense. I have said it before that Shimano set out to solve a problem that did not exist, or perhaps they are attempting to set a new standard that will be copied by all...leaders of the pack? Hopefully not! Being ever hopeful, Shimano will drop the poor design and go back to the tried and true method of the past.

As for allen screws for making der stop adjustments being and improvement over the traditional phillips screws I am not sure how it is an improvement as turning a screw that is not under tension does not require much torque or effort. Honestly I find it a hassle as I pump out the repairs grabbing for the screw driver is a thoughtless process whereas selecting the correct hex key is not.

Ross520

The extra 5 seconds it takes to select the correct Allen wrench is absolutely worth the time invested. It's very nice not having to put any pressure on the bolt head when making fine adjustments, as well as that nice "locked-in" feeling.

I would be very disappointed if Shimano stopped using Allen bolts in their derailleurs.

shelbyfv

Not Phillips, FWIW.

ririder

I'm questioning whether the trimming on my 105 r7000 FD is working properly. I bought my bike at the end of 2019. In March I had a problem with my front shifter that resulted in warranty replacement. I typically ride on the large ring as I don't ride a lot of hills. When I do move the cog to the easier cogs to ride when I do encounter hills I get a chain rub that I can't resolve with trimming. I'm talking about the 3rd easiest cog is where I typically start getting the rub. How much movement should I be seeing on the cage when I trim. When I stand next to the bike and trim the FD I see very little movement. I'm starting to wonder if maybe when the front shifter was replaced, if maybe the setup wasn't done properly.
Thanks for any help.