Odd really screwed up spoke pattern
11-26-16, 11:18 AM
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Odd really screwed up spoke pattern
I found this in an Ebay sale for a seriously overpriced Bottecchia frame.
Anyone ever see a spoking pattern like this?
And if you just have to own it (it's selling without the wheels)
Anyone ever see a spoking pattern like this?
And if you just have to own it (it's selling without the wheels)
11-26-16, 11:26 AM
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11-26-16, 11:29 AM
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Thanks for sharing this find!
First we had tied, tied and soldered and now we have "braided." 
You have become the forum's official Teddy scout.
I'll have to check but I would guess this is not one covered by Jobst Brandt...
-----
Thanks for sharing this find!
First we had tied, tied and soldered and now we have "braided."
You have become the forum's official Teddy scout.
I'll have to check but I would guess this is not one covered by Jobst Brandt...
-----
11-26-16, 11:40 AM
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Every once in awhile. Always associated them with the name "snowflake" pattern. Probably takes a few tries to get the spoke length right depending on how many turns you want to do. No known functional advantage.
11-26-16, 12:14 PM
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The functional advantage is indeed limited, but I can tell you why I've done it: the twist uses up a couple mm of extra spoke. If you have a hub and a rim and a pile of spokes of the wrong length and it's not worth it to you to go buy spokes of the right length, then the twisted spoke thing may work out for you. For a little while.
For example, I built a 20 wheel with a three speed hub for my daughter. I knew she would ride it only during the summer, and only for one or two summers before she outgrew it. She wasn't sure she'd like it, and I was under strict instructions to not spend money on this project.
It was a success. The wheel held up fine. She rode it a lot. She has now outgrown it.
Wheels like this tend to not last very long, because it is very difficult to get the same spoke tension above the twist as below it. So they tend to fatigue at the hub, and when they start to break, the wheel is done.
For example, I built a 20 wheel with a three speed hub for my daughter. I knew she would ride it only during the summer, and only for one or two summers before she outgrew it. She wasn't sure she'd like it, and I was under strict instructions to not spend money on this project.
It was a success. The wheel held up fine. She rode it a lot. She has now outgrown it.
Wheels like this tend to not last very long, because it is very difficult to get the same spoke tension above the twist as below it. So they tend to fatigue at the hub, and when they start to break, the wheel is done.
11-26-16, 12:31 PM
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Yes, I bought a bike with that lacing pattern. To keep shipping as low as possible I asked that the seller cut the wheels apart, removing the freewheel first. He was proud of his handiwork but understood as I was returning the bike to original. 15 years or so ago there was a bike shop in Newport Beach Ca that promoted this lacing pattern as just the best thing going. The shop was going the "pro" only route and did not last long. That was my first exposure to the pattern.
11-26-16, 12:34 PM
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One day I will try the "crow's feet" pattern. Maybe. There were guys at the track who swore by them.
11-26-16, 12:38 PM
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11-26-16, 02:17 PM
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What??? Only 2 wheels?
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A met a lbs empliyee who had built his own wheels like that. I asked why and he said just to be different. I wondered about getting even spoke tension.
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11-26-16, 02:44 PM
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The crow's foot pattern I always saw with cad plated spokes and soldiered up.
At the time I never tried to calc out the crossing spokes length
At the time I never tried to calc out the crossing spokes length
11-26-16, 08:24 PM
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That seller has used those wheels in other listings, must be his way of standing out.
Bill
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11-26-16, 09:10 PM
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Thanks all for the comments. I was surprised to read that this pattern has been around a while, and especially surprised to hear RHM's actual functional use!
11-27-16, 09:16 AM
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Technical challenge
If you lace your own wheels these flower patterns are very difficult to make true. Once you get them true they have to be ridden in and trued up again. Eventually they settle down.
A broken spoke means all five in the flower need changing.
Having a spoke threading tool makes it much easier.
Women love them.
A broken spoke means all five in the flower need changing.
Having a spoke threading tool makes it much easier.
Women love them.
11-27-16, 10:10 AM
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My wife, on seeing the pic above: "Huh. They repurposed their coat hangers."
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11-27-16, 10:12 AM
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11-27-16, 04:50 PM
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My son bought a fixie conversion that used that twisted pairs spoke pattern. The hubs were no good and I had little regard for the spoke pattern, so we cut them out and reused the rims to build some better wheels using a conventional pattern.
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11-27-16, 07:50 PM
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Just saw a wheel laced in this manner in my LBS's shop. We all kind of rolled our eyes at it. Distinctive, though!
12-04-16, 10:38 AM
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Last month I saw a CL ad with that pattern but on a MTB. First time I had seen that. The seller said they were stronger that way, IIRC...I assumed the entire ad was just a joke though.
12-04-16, 12:00 PM
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I don't see the value of the inboard spokes relative to the weight and complexity that they add. If the outboard flanges need room for more spokes, just make the flange diameter bigger.
Regarding twisting of the spokes, there may be some advantages in damping, and distribution of shock loads. But if you figure the cost with labour included, I can't see how twisted spokes can be competitive with a wheel of the same mass with conventional spoke pattern that is designed for the same mission and longevity.
Regarding twisting of the spokes, there may be some advantages in damping, and distribution of shock loads. But if you figure the cost with labour included, I can't see how twisted spokes can be competitive with a wheel of the same mass with conventional spoke pattern that is designed for the same mission and longevity.
12-04-16, 12:04 PM
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314mm spokes, says the how-to! I guess they must exist for those 32 and 36 unicycle wheels.
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12-04-16, 02:04 PM
#25
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I'm pretty sure there is no advantage whatsoever except that it looks cool. If I was still a 20something hipster rolling around the city on some cool ride, that might be fun -- but I'm not...