fatcalculator

I'm perplexed by my current issue. I recently noticed that my rear wheel is closer to the left side, but does not wobble. I made sure my axle was properly seated in the dropouts, so I assume that my wheel is dished. I took it to the LBS and had them redish it.

I reinstalled the wheel today and the rear wheel is still off center. The strange thing is that when I flip the wheel and install it (so that the cassette is facing the opposite direction), the wheel is centered.

What's the problem? Any ideas on how to fix this?

Thanks in advance.

urbanknight

The wheel can't be perfectly centered in one direction and off in the other, so whatever you're using to compare is not quite centered itself. Still, the fact that switching positions shows different results tells us that the shop might not have redished the wheel accurately. If they did, then there's some inconsistency in your frame causing it to sit improperly.

fatcalculator

I'm using the distance between the wheel and the two sides of the frame's triangle (looking down and above from the seat). I guess my best bet is to take it back to my LBS?

Pilsley

Some frames have different size stays, drive side/none drive side specific. Is this the case?

fatcalculator

I've never heard of that. I always thought frames were symmetrical. Is that a feature on high-end bikes?

chasmm

What brand/model bike do you have?

Pilsley

I believe a couple of the manufacturors are doing it. Have'nt seen one myself, so was wondering.

fatcalculator

Windsor Wellington 3.0

https://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ington3_IX.htm

Pilsley

Open up your brake & adjust it out of center, make one pad gently touch a braking surface. Do your wheel flip thing again, careful not to knock the brake & see if the rim touches again. This will check the dish of the wheel.

fatcalculator

Nice idea.

I just finished. I adjusted the rear brake so that the left pad was touching the rim. When I flipped the wheel with the cassette facing the opposite direction, the left pad had about 2-3mm from the rim to the pad. I flipped it back and the left pad was touching again.

So looks like they didn't do a great job of dishing, but how much of a tolerance am I supposed to expect from a LBS?

Pilsley

2-3 mm new bike or wheel, out of the box, I wouldn't be happy, but not the end of the world.

2-3 mm after specifically paying for a dish - I'd take it back.

Psimet2001 

OK - the wheel is not centered/dished correctly. Odds are the individual who did your work did it on a work stand that is not centered itself.

Most every shop in the country uses the Park TS-2 (new version 2.2) to true and build wheels. While this stand can be a great asset to most shops I can tell you from a ton of direct experience that it must be checked fairly consistently for center. Also - i have found that even when new, calibrated and/or rebuilt that the stand(s) can be dead on for one OLD spacing (such as front wheels) but then be off for a different OLD spacing (rear wheel road and rear wheel mtb).

For the majority of applications and work this is usually not an issue. For my work it was enough that I bought and extra stand recently and currently use 2 stands - one set and centered for front OLD dimensions/wheels and one for the rear. Using these in conjunction with the new dial indicator setups that Park is offering (finally) can allow some very precise work.

The easiest way to check to see if their own stand is centered is to put the wheel in the stand, run the caliper in close and then flip the wheel. If the distance from the rim to either caliper changes then the wheel is not dished correctly. If when the wheel is dished correctly (flipping the wheel in the stand yields no change of position with reference to the calipers (always check at an easily identifiable location like the valve hole) then if the rim is not looking like it is "centered" in between the calipers then the calipers are not centered and the stand needs to be adjusted - using 2 3/4 wrenches on the adjusting bolts at the base of the caliper arm.

The fun part is when you have it all set and everything is right and then you change OLD positions and everything goes out of wack and is not repeatable. This is why I have a love/hate relationship with this stand. Problem is the nice ones.....are much more expensive. *sigh* It was cheaper for me to get a couple and just dial them in.

If they have the dial indicators on the stand then just put the wheel in. zero out the dial and then flip the wheel. Split the difference in the measurements and set that midpoint as your zero. Then just dish or true the wheel to the zero position.

Psimet2001 

BTW - OP as for your brake...the brake will usually be off center. I actually keep the mounting bolt on my brakes a tad loose to allow for brake re-centering by hand. that way after transport to a race, etc I can just mount my wheel, pull the brake lever and recenter the caliper by hand. no worries because I know the wheel is dished and true.

Pilsley

Very true,

I used to find this frustrating for building & truing wheels, but now just flip the wheel excessively as
I'm working.

unterhausen

when I was truing wheels a lot using a TS-2, I would just put a Park spoke wrench handle under one of the two calipers and true it that way. The stands are always out of dish. I would flip the wheel to check the dish, and once I thought it was done I would use a dishing tool. I would question the ability of anyone that uses a TS-2 style truing stand that doesn't know about this problem.

As far as the OP's issue, it wouldn't surprise me at all that a BD bike was way out of alignment; even more reputable brands have that problem. I am the owner of an early cannondale that is considerably out of alignment and it doesn't look like it has been bent.

MCODave

I could never afford the TS-2, so I when I started building wheels I got a Performance-branded Minoura (old version) and a Park dishing tool. (Technically, you might call it a gauge and not a tool since it just measures dish and doesn't actually fix it)

Now I couldn't think of building or truing wheels without the dishing tool. I'm not saying that flipping the wheel doesn't work, but I have seen a number of wheels built that way that are flagrantly out of dish when checked with my simple cheap dishing tool. If the OP could get his hands on such a tool, he would know in less than a minute if it is the wheel or the frame that is out.

Pilsley

Agreed,

Dishing tool (gauge - very good) is for finish work though. Flipping the wheel is speedier whilst your still bringing the tension up on the spokes.

& for what it's worth OP. If you do go back to the bikeshop, ask them to show you the wheel on dishyguagetool. The brake trick is just a quick indicator & their dishybow will be correct.

ultraman6970

+1 in the dishing tool. No way to know if you are off 1 mm or 2 mm off center w/o the dishing tool. Would love to see one with lasers or something h-tech

Regarding the OP problem. just wonder if the rear end of the bike is not right. The easy way to find out is to use the string method and if the frame is off needs to be sent to the shop for alignment.

Psimet2001 

Dishing gauge is less accurate for me than using dial indicators on a stand and flipping it. Direct read variable gauge with set fixturing over an attribute gauge.

ls01

Just to clarify. I f your distance from the pad is 2mm after you flip the wheel then you are only off 1 mm. 1/2 the distance is center.

stevemtbr

Had this same problem on a mountain bike back in the early 90's. Could not get the rear wheel to dish no matter what I or my local shop tried. We finally discovered the wheel was built with the drive side spokes (shorter spokes) on the non drive side (longer spokes) of the wheel and vice versa. I just dismantled the whole thing and started all over with the spokes on the proper sides and it dished great.

Scrockern8r

Be sure to check the string method. It's cheap and easy. Diametrically opposite of my usual SOP.

fatcalculator

Thanks, everyone for the helpful replies.

After more examination with the brake and flip method that I tried earlier, the wheel is probably 1-2mm dished and not 2-3mm as I previously stated. However, the overall rear alignment seems to be off more than 1-2mm.

I didn't get a chance to go to the LBS, but I tried out that string method ultraman6970/Scrockern8r mentioned and my frame seems to be solid. I didn't notice any outright asymmetry with my index card as a gauge. At this point, I have a feeling the centering issue is a combination of a slightly dished wheel and possibly dropout alignment? What do you think?