Hypno Toad

I found out that this is the vision people have of me as a mountain biker

25348812_10155242836409226_5211224293890707844_n.jpg

Here's a local news story on the project: Proposed mountain bike trails cause controversy in Minnetonka - Story | KMSP

The Hypno Toad is interviewed (not the crazy old coot that talked about corp mountain bike money), and my drop-bar Pugsley is in the cover shot for the story (that's kinda cool).

First, in the intro to the story the anchor says: "Turn one park into a bike trail"??? The correct headline is "include a mountain bike trail in a park" SMH

The room was over full, I think there were 20 or more tables of 8 people each, so I'd estimate it was a crowd of 200 including city staff. We had table discussions about the pros and cons of 3 options: Trails in Big Willow Park; Trails in other city parks; and no trails in Minnetonka. Info was captured and collected by the city.

My table was civil, 3 resident advocates, 1 trail designer, 3 elderly plus one 'younger' concerned residents. The non-bikers at our table were all thinking of mountain bikes as the redbull fueled downhill racers.

The crazy old coot in the new story is not alone, Minnetonka is dominated by an elderly population, they don't understand the purposed trails; they are scared of loud and fast bikes killing the wild life and cutting down the tree and costing a fortune. The city leadership had the opportunity to educate, but did nothing. It was disheartening.

If anybody has interest/time, here's the cities forum *warning* it's a rabbits warren of misinformation, dumb comments, hate, and everything else you'd expect: City of Minnetonka, MN Footnote on the forum, I use my real name (Chris Nelson), somebody searched me on-line and accused me of being an outsider since I have a mailing address for the neighboring city, I shared a link to a map showing that zip code includes a huge section of our city.

This post is really just about crying in my beer. However, if you've advocated in similar proposals, I'd be interested to hear your story.

FrozenK

Similar to what I've seen here in Anchorage. Every mountain bike trail sees opposition from people who just don't want bicycles on trails.

Up here the latest argument against them is bear safety. A local biologist -who doesn't want any new trails- has made it his mission to convince people that mountain biking is superduperdangerous in bear habitat. And that the only reason we don't see dozens of mailings every year is luck. He is completely ignoring the data -example: 8 solid years of purpose-buily mountain bike trails in Anchorage without any bear maulings. But between appeal to authority and people not bothering to think, he managed to delay construction of new trails for another season.

One thing I've learned is that, no matter what the project is, if you go to public involvement meetings at least one person hates it. I've seen it at work, when I'm involved on trail advocacy... everywhere. There is at least one person who's only purpose in life becomes to stop that project.

JonathanGennick 

Wow! That TV news segment didn't do cyclists any favors. All I can do is to cry in the beer with you, I"m afraid.

Hypno Toad

It was the local Fox station reporting, so fair and balanced wasn't gonna happen. LOL.



The trail designer at my table was a bit floored by the tension in the room. He said he's worked on the planning process with city around our area and this was much more angry than he's seen anywhere else.

Luckily, there is a great set of trails in Theodore Wirth Park in Minneapolis, about 12 miles from my house. I bike over there about once a month for some fun, so that will continue to be my single-track fix for now. I need to consider myself lucky to have trails close enough to bike to.

Hypno Toad

Quick update, text from Ben, one of our leaders: This past Saturday morning a group of eighteen MTB trail advocates volunteered at Big Willow Park, removing invasive buckthorn. Our efforts are clearing the way for the growth of native species and making Big Willow a better place for all users! This is just the latest example of the engagement by the local biking community and demonstrates how proposed MTB trails gives more local outdoor enthusiasts a reason to care for our city parks. City of Minnetonka's Natural Resources staff is delighted with this community engagement, which could be transformative in our city’s restoration efforts.

The 'fruits' of our efforts:

IMG_20171216_113641403.jpg

It was great mental therapy to get together with people advocating the new trails, and do something very positive for a park I grew up in.

GrainBrain

I hope all goes well - kinda wish we could get some of that snow down in central Iowa.

What was up with the mtb corporation comment in the video? I also read the forum posts, laughed when I saw someone very opposed quote bumper stickers. "Mountain bicyclists eat their dead"

The elderly living facility sounds like the greatest challenge - that's like prodding a hornets nest!

Hypno Toad

It's kinda funny that the senior apartment is so opposed to change (single-track trails)... 'cause they just built that seniors apartment last year.

To the "outside interests" and "forcing change in our city for their interests" comments ... a large company with many locations around town forced this seniors apartment in as quickly as possible, breaking leases with businesses that were on that site. We had a long relationship with a dog boarding facility that was on that property, they was forced out far ahead of schedule, leaving people scrambling to rebook their dogs - including me with a reservation for Thanksgiving week. It took them nearly two years to get a new building set up for boarding dogs.

I know too much about the history of this area and this current oppositions to bike trails just gets my blood pressure up!

UtahRider

As far as I know, no problems around here in GJ about mountain bikers on trails. **** mountain bikers are building them.

DMC707

Exactly !

Who the heck comes out with saws, axes and shovels to keep things groomed. --- Yes we do it for us but it has a benevolent side effect of keeeping the areas clear for hikers and dog walkers too

Hypno Toad

We had another informational meeting this week and more local news coverage that is the equivillant of going to social media, taking a couple comments and pictures, and call it 'news' - Minnetonka Residents Split Over Mountain Bike Trail In Park « WCCO | CBS Minnesota

" ... there are a bunch of irresponsible, what I call kamikazes,” John Richards said.

I created this for John:

Untitled.jpg

Despite some ill-informed, grumpy old people, this meeting was much better than the December meeting. The city showed leadership, and educated the group about the proposed trails. It sounds like we'll move forward, just need to figure out where the 'not in my backyard' crowd is weakest. We get another meeting with the full park board next month, this will be to decide about moving forward and next steps.

Leebo

Good job with the weed removals. Keep stirring the pot. MA rider here, long time Nemba trail builder and rider here. So this would be for new trails? Most of what we build are multi purpose trails, hikers and dog walkers too. Did you get that clean up pic to the local paper? Got a mt bike club in the area? Seek them out. Get the whole community involved. One of my local areas was in danger of being developed, just a switch in the town board, it might of happened. 7 years, it is now classed as open space. We built boardwalk, trails, signage, had open houses and guided trail walks. Did some clean ups( 2 dumpsters of tires) Involved bird watcher and historical groups for walks. Had girl scouts sell stuff at the trail head. Dog walkers too are some of the biggest users. In the end, at a town meeting vote, they all realized it is a great reasource for all to use. Please post back here with some updates an info.

Hypno Toad

We have a strong advocacy group in Minnesota - MORC - they have built and maintained about a dozen trails in our area. It's painful to see the people in my town act like this is a brand new idea; we have so many successful trails in the area.

Over 90% of the MORC designed/maintained trails are designated multi-use. I'm not sure that's helping our local support since they are certain a mountain biker will run them down and kill them. MORC has zero reports of bike-hiker collisions on their 85+ miles of trails and many years. But, you know, facts aren't really a thing when you don't want "it" in your backyard.

We need to do more outreach, I think the local newsletter covered our invasive species... but not huge coverage.

The meeting early next month will be interesting and decisive.

Leebo

One the comments was noise and safety? Hmmm. Build on the successful trails things, any bikes shops for support? Bikers that support area business food/beer etc? Is the trail work up keep covered? Good relationships with the town? Check out the 2 books that IMBA has put out. Not a first step but there are ways to put those safety concerns to rest. Good sight lines and trail signs? Leash dog laws, one way trails for some? Another park I was involved with concerned dogs, they were the biggest user, no one knew until the study. We then made a huge ( 2x football field) an off leash dog area, win, win. Know about stacked loops? Make 1 short loop, say 1/2 to 1 mile or so, closest to the parking lot, walk and dog only. No bikes. Lots of options. HS kids have bike teams? Get the town chamber of commerce on your side? Whole businesses economies are built around the eco tourism of mt bikers. Food, lodging etc.

Salubrious

I'm here in the Twin Cities also, and MORC does a great job.

What kills me is that everywhere I go, the cycling community is always concerned about how we deal with the public in general, always warning us that we have be polite, respect signage and the environment, yada yada like we have to be told. Sure we're a bunch of nuts, but overall I see a lot of responsible people...

I've ridden on the Tour Divide a lot, here's an interesting story regarding small towns.

What the two-wheeled tourist can offer tiny towns ? High Country News

I think this applies to Crosby, MN, and it should to Minnetonka too.

Hypno Toad

Quick update: The Minnetonka Park Board had their vote this week, the advisory group suggested we do not add single-track trails to Big Willow Park - but that the city study feasibility in Lone Lake Park.

The bummer is that the bike community put a lot of effort into Big Willow; now we are basically back to square one. Plus Big Willow is very close to my house (I'm selfish).

The upside is that Lone Lake will offer more room for longer trails and I think the bike community has done a great job getting the attention of the city and local business, so I feel like this will move forward - hopefully quickly.

My one nagging worry, the "not in my backyard" crowd will start whining around Lone Lake, just like they did with Big Willow. In fact, the first wave of "won't please somebody think the (enter absurd concern)" people made statements during the open-mic time. A bird watcher said that single-track trails will ruin the birds environment...

That comment section had me biting my lip bloody to avoid laughing out load, the stupid sh... stuff people will say. I couldn't be on that board, I'd be straight up rude.

Hypno Toad

To those that are interested, there was an open house last week. I had nearly no time to attend, it was the day before our daughter's wedding. Luckily I had to drop off our dogs at the boarding house and drove right past the city hall, so I stopped for a couple minutes to add my comment to the record.

Here are two posts about the single-track trails in Lone Lake Park in Minnetonka:

Local paper: Minnetonka debuts Lone Lake Park mountain bike trail drafts

Blog post: https://barbecuediguana.wordpress.co...5/23/home-run/

Trail concept info: https://eminnetonka.com/images/recre...t%20poster.pdf
Funny side story, I just sold my house in Minnetonka, but my new house in neighboring Hopkins is closer to Lone Lake. So it'll be easier to get to the trails and easier to be a part of the trail crew.

csmitty2

just build a trial without them knowing, it happens all the time where I'm from

Hypno Toad

It has happened here, in these parks, and that's created hostility/conflict.

Minneapolis (and surrounding areas) has a very strong trail design and maintenance organization along with a strong community of trail volunteers. We really should not be creating rogue trails. Our goal is legitimate trails for high school teams and the community in general.

Failing that, I'll continue to enjoy the rogue trails that have been in these parks since I was a kid in the '70s.

RubenAlonzo

Hypno Toad, thank you for all your efforts man. Every little bit helps us all in the long run.

tungsten

Why you building in parks don't you have any mountains? Small ones even?

Oh wait.......

Hypno Toad

Tonight is a big night in Minnetonka, the Park Board will make a recommendation on the Lone Lake single-track trails. The opposition is making a serious effort to stop any single-track trails in Minnetonka. Here's an interesting post about an opposition meeting: https://www.citymtb.org/home/going-t...u-dont-have-to - I've been informed that this post is written by a strong bike advocate, and they may or may not be complete/accurately reporting all the details of this meeting.

I'll post an update tomorrow about tonight park board meeting.

Hypno Toad

Whelp, the haters found another way to whine and throw a fit. I can't see this do anything but delay the trails and add costs to the city.

JonathanGennick 

That's a discouraging outcome to be sure.

Hypno Toad

UPDATES

Earlier this summer, the courts ruled against the opposition's demand for an environmental impact study, and the opposition appealed to the Minnesota supreme court... more stalling tactics. No update on the status of this appeal or it's time-line.

More important, after hours of public comments last night, the city of Minnetonka voted 5-2 to move forward with sustainable single-track trails in Lone Lake Park.

It's nice to see the step in the right direction, but it's so disheartening to see how a small group of ill-informed people can slow and delay a community project. I started this thread in 2017, and started work with local advocates in 2016. It'll easily be 2020 before trail work can start, and maybe .... just maybe, we will be riding trails in our own community before the end of next year.

I'm going to get some more coffee, the vote took place after 12:30, we didn't get home until 1:00 AM, and the alarm went off at 6:00 AM ...

Darth Lefty 

You can't call someone ill-informed if they just won't be told