The Gear Wars Continue: Campag 1x13 Ekar
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The Gear Wars Continue: Campag 1x13 Ekar
12 speeds clearly wasn't enough so, here we are:
For folks wanting a Campag group with shiney chrome parts for gravel...keep wanting. Lots of CF and black. New FH body, ofc new cassette, new BB, and new levers, same rotor size specific calipers it looks like...but only 1x AFAIK.
For folks wanting a Campag group with shiney chrome parts for gravel...keep wanting. Lots of CF and black. New FH body, ofc new cassette, new BB, and new levers, same rotor size specific calipers it looks like...but only 1x AFAIK.
#2
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For good information, try my favorite cycling website. Lots of accurate info. Yes, it's 1X only, but with an excellent 467% range, using the 9-42 cassette. With 40 or 42T chain ring, it would meet a lot of biker's needs.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258775
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258775
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I think Ekar will be huge for Campa. They learned their lesson from the MTB fiasco; I'm glad to see this, it looks very well thought out and well implemented.
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For good information, try my favorite cycling website. Lots of accurate info. Yes, it's 1X only, but with an excellent 467% range, using the 9-42 cassette. With 40 or 42T chain ring, it would meet a lot of biker's needs.
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258775
https://forums.thepaceline.net/showthread.php?t=258775
#5
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#7
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From a technology and design standpoint it looks really good, and seems fairly priced for what you get. It doesn't really solve the 1x problem though, and the 9t cog arguably makes it worse. Look at the ratio chart below with the speeds most of us normal cyclist actually ride gravel at (8-20 MPH'ish) most of the time in the red box (Ekar top, GRX 2x bottom). If you like to pedal at a steady cadence, this is still makes no sense.
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What is the point of the whole 9t and 10t, just to have a wider range and not require a large gear on the cassette to keep the rear der safe? Since a chainring and 11t can get the same high gear I don't understand the desire for the more inefficient tiny cogs.
One of the things that gets ignored with the whole 2x12 is that while the chainrings aren't as optimally located as with a 1x system the drivetrain isn't as noisy when using crossover gears as the older 8,9,10sp systems were. I'm running similar to Davesss set up though not quite the range 48/32 with an 11-34 12 speed but on a cross bike. I went with it since I will use it for some crit riding and hilly road races and shouldn't need to drop out of the large chainring to do so, the gear range is wider then my first 12 speed (2x6) road bike of yesteryear and should be sufficient for current fitness levels. The 32 ring based on previous cross seasons means for cross riding I'll almost never leave the small ring, none of the courses I did in recent memory had long paved flats to need higher gearing. While the 1x13 might give the same range I can run my 2x12 like its 2 separate 1x12 bikes but with more reasonable and optimal gear changes.
One of the things that gets ignored with the whole 2x12 is that while the chainrings aren't as optimally located as with a 1x system the drivetrain isn't as noisy when using crossover gears as the older 8,9,10sp systems were. I'm running similar to Davesss set up though not quite the range 48/32 with an 11-34 12 speed but on a cross bike. I went with it since I will use it for some crit riding and hilly road races and shouldn't need to drop out of the large chainring to do so, the gear range is wider then my first 12 speed (2x6) road bike of yesteryear and should be sufficient for current fitness levels. The 32 ring based on previous cross seasons means for cross riding I'll almost never leave the small ring, none of the courses I did in recent memory had long paved flats to need higher gearing. While the 1x13 might give the same range I can run my 2x12 like its 2 separate 1x12 bikes but with more reasonable and optimal gear changes.
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What is the point of the whole 9t and 10t, just to have a wider range and not require a large gear on the cassette to keep the rear der safe? Since a chainring and 11t can get the same high gear I don't understand the desire for the more inefficient tiny cogs.
One of the things that gets ignored with the whole 2x12 is that while the chainrings aren't as optimally located as with a 1x system the drivetrain isn't as noisy when using crossover gears as the older 8,9,10sp systems were. I'm running similar to Davesss set up though not quite the range 48/32 with an 11-34 12 speed but on a cross bike. I went with it since I will use it for some crit riding and hilly road races and shouldn't need to drop out of the large chainring to do so, the gear range is wider then my first 12 speed (2x6) road bike of yesteryear and should be sufficient for current fitness levels. The 32 ring based on previous cross seasons means for cross riding I'll almost never leave the small ring, none of the courses I did in recent memory had long paved flats to need higher gearing. While the 1x13 might give the same range I can run my 2x12 like its 2 separate 1x12 bikes but with more reasonable and optimal gear changes.
One of the things that gets ignored with the whole 2x12 is that while the chainrings aren't as optimally located as with a 1x system the drivetrain isn't as noisy when using crossover gears as the older 8,9,10sp systems were. I'm running similar to Davesss set up though not quite the range 48/32 with an 11-34 12 speed but on a cross bike. I went with it since I will use it for some crit riding and hilly road races and shouldn't need to drop out of the large chainring to do so, the gear range is wider then my first 12 speed (2x6) road bike of yesteryear and should be sufficient for current fitness levels. The 32 ring based on previous cross seasons means for cross riding I'll almost never leave the small ring, none of the courses I did in recent memory had long paved flats to need higher gearing. While the 1x13 might give the same range I can run my 2x12 like its 2 separate 1x12 bikes but with more reasonable and optimal gear changes.
* 9/10t cogs aren't just for increasing range. They're important for increasing gear inches without the need for a larger 1X chainring, which in turn eliminates the need for a giant largest cog to get acceptable low gearing.
* If you're riding a crit or fast road race with a 48X11 then you are either just out there having fun (totally fine!) or you aren't winning any sprints (also totally fine). But there are PLENTY of others that need a much higher end gear for racing.
* For cx, 1X is great, like you mentioned. And I'd argue the larger jumps between gear changes is preferable. I know I like bigger jumps when I'm on gravel, cause when I need to change a gear I NEED it to make a noticeable difference. It's not like pavement riding where transitions in elevation and surface type are smooth or minimal.
* Now to your point about using one bike for everything. This again is not too bad with 1X13, Campy made it very easy to change the chainring to suit your ride or race. Bigger for road/crit, smaller for CX. Bob's your uncle.
Hope that helps!
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Last edited by shoota; 09-25-20 at 09:29 AM.
#11
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I'm not sure you're understanding this, not trying to be snarky or mean but you're missing the point on several fronts.
* 9/10t cogs aren't just for increasing range. They're important for increasing gear inches without the need for a larger 1X chainring, which in turn eliminates the need for a giant largest cog to get acceptable low gearing.
* 9/10t cogs aren't just for increasing range. They're important for increasing gear inches without the need for a larger 1X chainring, which in turn eliminates the need for a giant largest cog to get acceptable low gearing.
* If you're riding a crit or fast road race with a 48X11 then you are either just out there having fun (totally fine!) or you aren't winning any sprints (also totally fine). But there are PLENTY of others that need a much higher end gear for racing.
* For cx, 1X is great, like you mentioned. And I'd argue the larger jumps between gear changes is preferable. I know I like bigger jumps when I'm on gravel, cause when I need to change a gear I NEED it to make a noticeable difference. It's not like pavement riding where transitions in elevation and surface type are smooth or minimal.
* Now to your point about using one bike for everything. This again is not too bad with 1X13, Campy made it very easy to change the chainring to suit your ride or race. Bigger for road/crit, smaller for CX. Bob's your uncle.
Hope that helps!
* Now to your point about using one bike for everything. This again is not too bad with 1X13, Campy made it very easy to change the chainring to suit your ride or race. Bigger for road/crit, smaller for CX. Bob's your uncle.
Hope that helps!
On an aside, I saw a patent probably 18-20 years ago by campy for a 13sp drivetrain chain where they envisioned the connecting piece of the chain being a single arched piece of metal that rode over the teeth of the gears
#12
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One point being missed is that 1x eliminates chain drops on rough terrain, which is why most MTB riders are switching to it. There is no gravel where I live and even if there was, eating dust isn't my idea of fun and neither is riding in the mud. I ride on clean dry roads in the hills and mountains of Colorado. I sometimes ride from Loveland to Estes Park three times a week. I just did the 52 mile loop through Glen Haven this morning. I ride Campy chorus 12 crank with sram axs 12 speed and the new 10-36 cassette.
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when is the number of gears on a rear wheel going to be "enough." I thought 12-speed was silly. give it a few years and manufacturers will "rediscover" front derailers and talk customers in to buying new bikes because the old bikes were designed around making a FD impossible.
honestly, I think gear boxes of one sort or another will become more popular at some point. if you want range and small increments, a derailer system is going to hit a solid wall at some point.
honestly, I think gear boxes of one sort or another will become more popular at some point. if you want range and small increments, a derailer system is going to hit a solid wall at some point.
#14
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From a technology and design standpoint it looks really good, and seems fairly priced for what you get. It doesn't really solve the 1x problem though, and the 9t cog arguably makes it worse. Look at the ratio chart below with the speeds most of us normal cyclist actually ride gravel at (8-20 MPH'ish) most of the time in the red box (Ekar top, GRX 2x bottom). If you like to pedal at a steady cadence, this is still makes no sense.
Most people do not ride at a steady cadence. If all I did was ride at a steady cadence from 8-20 mph, I'd be bored to death. I ride in the hills and mountains of northern Colorado. I ride winding mountain descents at speeds up to 54 mph and climb 12% grades as slowly as 5 mph. On the steepest grades my cadence might drop to 65 and on the fastest descents hit 115 rpm before I spin out at 42-44 mph on my way up to 50+. A typical 1X doesn't have quite enough top gear or low gear, compared to my setup that has a 540% range. My top gear of 48/10 is 4.8/1 and my lowest gear ratio is a 32/36 or .89/1. I use every one of them on most of my rides.
I could get by with a 46/30 crank instead of my 48/32, but no one makes a 12 speed compatible model that I know of. A 1X system with a 42T chainrng and 9 tooth small sprocket would meet my top ends desires. At the low end, a 42/42 would be more than plenty for many riders, but I much prefer my 32/36 and would like a 30/36 if I can ever find a 46/30 crank that will work with SRAM AXS 12. There is some hope that Campy will eventually offer some new 12 speed crank and cassette options, now that they have a freehub body that allows a 9 or 10T smallest sprocket. Their 13 speed 9-36 without the 9 would be great as a 12 speed model.
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I love my 1x setups on both of my CX/Gravel bikes. For mostly flat midwest riding a 42t 11-32 is plenty of range for gravel and most road. The 1x setup is great for CX racing because I don't have to think about shifting the front ring, and the clutched RD helps stop the chain from bouncing around, plus there's no FD to get gunked up with leaves/grass/mud.
A 13 speed 1x sounds awesome for that use, but for me the benefit would just be tighter spacing between gears. I don't really need any more range than what I have.
If I were buying a pure road bike, I'd definitely get a 2x. The benefits of 1x seem to be lost on a road bike. Even with 13 cogs, you'd still have bigger gaps between gears than a 2x, and need to run a very large cassette to match the range. In many cases, the weight of those large rear cassettes is heavier than the second ring and FD. I can see 1x for crit racing, only because the crit racing I'm familiar with is all big-ring-only anyway and you don't need a large range cassette. This would make for a fairly limited road bike though.
A 13 speed 1x sounds awesome for that use, but for me the benefit would just be tighter spacing between gears. I don't really need any more range than what I have.
If I were buying a pure road bike, I'd definitely get a 2x. The benefits of 1x seem to be lost on a road bike. Even with 13 cogs, you'd still have bigger gaps between gears than a 2x, and need to run a very large cassette to match the range. In many cases, the weight of those large rear cassettes is heavier than the second ring and FD. I can see 1x for crit racing, only because the crit racing I'm familiar with is all big-ring-only anyway and you don't need a large range cassette. This would make for a fairly limited road bike though.
#16
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when is the number of gears on a rear wheel going to be "enough." I thought 12-speed was silly. give it a few years and manufacturers will "rediscover" front derailers and talk customers in to buying new bikes because the old bikes were designed around making a FD impossible.
honestly, I think gear boxes of one sort or another will become more popular at some point. if you want range and small increments, a derailer system is going to hit a solid wall at some point.
honestly, I think gear boxes of one sort or another will become more popular at some point. if you want range and small increments, a derailer system is going to hit a solid wall at some point.
#17
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The new 1x systems were not designed in a vacuum. They are based on rider desires and what companies are certain will sell. I won't ever buy one because I ride on paved roads. I have no gravel available and wouldn't use it if I did. The primary purpose of 1X is to eliminate the chain drops that occur with 2X system, when ridden on rough terrain. If you don;t have than problem, then there is little point to 1X.
Most people do not ride at a steady cadence. If all I did was ride at a steady cadence from 8-20 mph, I'd be bored to death. I ride in the hills and mountains of northern Colorado. I ride winding mountain descents at speeds up to 54 mph and climb 12% grades as slowly as 5 mph. On the steepest grades my cadence might drop to 65 and on the fastest descents hit 115 rpm before I spin out at 42-44 mph on my way up to 50+. A typical 1X doesn't have quite enough top gear or low gear, compared to my setup that has a 540% range.
Most people do not ride at a steady cadence. If all I did was ride at a steady cadence from 8-20 mph, I'd be bored to death. I ride in the hills and mountains of northern Colorado. I ride winding mountain descents at speeds up to 54 mph and climb 12% grades as slowly as 5 mph. On the steepest grades my cadence might drop to 65 and on the fastest descents hit 115 rpm before I spin out at 42-44 mph on my way up to 50+. A typical 1X doesn't have quite enough top gear or low gear, compared to my setup that has a 540% range.
Are you planning to use this groupset on your road bike for 50+ MPH gravel descents?
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#19
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Like I said, the specs look great, but when you dive into the gear math, there are problems for some riders, and I don't think gearing is something that a lot of people really think about...they just buy what the guy at the bike shop said was good, or what they see everyone else running.
Are you planning to use this groupset on your road bike for 50+ MPH gravel descents?
Are you planning to use this groupset on your road bike for 50+ MPH gravel descents?