ciclimeacci

Hey folks, I'm the proud owner of a fake Gios Professional frame and fork, according to Marco Gios. I've been back and forth with the ebay seller on a resolution. One option is to keep the frame and fork but get a refund for a portion of the sales price. So, with that in mind, how much do you think its worth? It appears to be nicely made and rides well enough. Its SLX from what I can well, both the frame and steerer tube have the riffling like they should. It has drilled Campy dropouts and a gipiemme seat stay bridge. No other markings on the italian threaded bottom bracket. Below are some pics.

T-Mar

Lightly used SLX frames from the lower prestige brands typically sell for $200 -$250 US on ebay, so that's what I'd use as my barometer.

ciclimeacci

Thanks T-Mar. Thats close to the range of what I thought seemed reasonable.

zukahn1 

Since it is a really nice SLX frame set with a just OK incorrect branded repaint I would say $175-200 value which is basically the low end for SLX frames sets in good shape.

CliffordK

I'm seeing some Sannino frames with similar seatstay ends, and sometimes drilled dropouts. I need to hunt a bit more, but perhaps it is worth looking.

bikemig 

I'd discount it below what a used slx frameset goes for the fake paint job. That would just bug the heck out of me and I'd want a haircut on the price.

ciclimeacci

@zukahn1, that what I think its worth, he declined.

@CliffordK, I've not run across any other builder with similar seat stay ends. Might have to do some research on Sannino.

@bikemig, totally agree, it bugs me that he thinks its worth $350. I'll probably work through ebay and just return it, let him figure out how to sell, whatever it is. I'd keep and ride it for a fair price. He seems unwilling. Oh, well...off for the replacement search.

CliffordK

Here are a couple of Sannino frames that caught my attention.

Sannino Chromed Italian Frameset Columbus SL Tubing Top Quality Need Full Repair | eBay

1984 Sannino

That might be a reason why the two companies would have similar seat stays. Maybe a little more research. I'm not seeing that bottom bracket or pump post.

I think this is the company. Perhaps you could get a response from Mario Sannino.
MAURO SANNINO | Corratec

ciclimeacci

Thanks, that would make sense then, if he worked for Gios. It does have some similarities. 6 drilled holes in the dropouts, seat stay end shape. Haven't been able to find a pic of one with the same rubber grommet cable routing through the top tube. It could very well be a Sandino. The BB name placement is pretty close where a flat spot shows up on my frame, maybe they filed it down but it still missing any cutouts which appear on the Sannino bikes too. Corretec..a german brand I gather? Haven't heard of that one Thanks for the info.

italianbiker

Keep in mind that the Gios brothers separated and that they don't agree on everything. Before a certain year there was no pantographing. From my research it appeared there was a rift between the two and there was probably another company making the Gios professional bike for the other brother in a different facility. My research, if you can call it that, lead me to believe that "Fake" Gios's were made by the other brother and were not really fake.

Now, I have come across a few really bad, cheap imitation very heavy gauge Gios road bikes that look like garbage and these were true fakes.

I contacted one brother and he said, congratulazioni en il bicycleta! the other brother said fake.

ciclimeacci

Thanks @italianbiker. That notion occurred to me as well, but the one issue with this frame is that according to the catalogues I've been able to find, a red Gios was only available in 86' and by then, due to the fakes, they were panto'd at least in a few places from what I gather. I thought the Gios split happened pretty recently, like within the last 10 years for some type of trademark reason. There are variations in panto locations, but none Ive found in that range have zero and the difference in bottom bracket seems to be one of the telltale signs I suspect. Interesting theory to consider though!

italianbiker

Well the red does not look like a Gios red, so keep in mind that this is looks like a repaint. It does look like a Gios to me. For what its worth, I've had both, built by each brother. If you look at Ebay, this model is quite common. But I wouldn't purchase the non-pantograhed Gios bikes only because they are harder to unload. My next purchase will be a Blue Gios.

This red one looks exactly like my white Gios Torrino. I registered it with the other brother.

ciclimeacci

Thanks, I'll find blue one in my size one day as well. I worked out a deal to return the frame to the seller. He wanted too much for it given the issues.

Last ride 76 

My hat's off to you, Clifford.

I own 4 Gios frames right now, and I thought there was something funny about it being called a "fake". It's too close, and the differences are obviously intentional. Like the seat cluster, close but not exactly.

I'm pretty sure you have solved the mystery. Nice memory and input!

CliffordK

Maybe...

I like the theory of two brothers both labelling their frames Gios... And apparently neither really talking to each other.

One would think that each one would know what their brother's frames look like, or at least send people asking about the frames a link to the other brother.

The Sannino, of course, is another possibility, and it depends on whether it is an intentional fake or accidental, and whether there are frames that didn't get the pantographing.

ciclimeacci

Here's an update. I've now checked with both Gios brothers and neither of them claim the bike, based on the detailing. Chiefly the non integrated bottom bracket shell/chainstay bridge. Interestingly enough, I just noticed one other detail thats different than any Gios (no matter the brother) that I've seen in person or on the web. The headtube lugs have a "peak" on the front. Nice looking but unusual compared to anything else. Maybe its a Sannino, but all searches so far turn up different cutouts on the bottom bracket again. Who knows. Thanks for all the theories. An educational experience no doubt.

FBinNY 

Given that it's a fake, how about $1,000 in Monopoly money.

Seriously, decide what it's worth to you, and offer that or a return for refund, take it or leave it to the seller.

Vintage Peugeot

Nice photos, originality issues notwithstanding.

cb400bill

He sent it back. About 8 month ago...

ciclimeacci

Yeah, I sent it back. Just heard back from the second Gios brother....slightly delayed response but thought I'd post for closure.